MAJOR PUBLISHERS

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Alice brought up something that needs clarification. She said I didn't try to get a major publisher for the stuff I wrote about the Normandy Campaign. In one sense that's true, but it's only a portion of the story. That Normandy thing was one part of a family history of the Lynches, Harrolds and Stodghills that I wrote about 15 years ago. I had no intention of publishing it. The idea didn't interest me any more than writing a novel-length mystery interested me. I accidentally stumbled upon the PA site one day and thought it would be nice to have one copy of a perfect bound collection of a short story series. It would be a handy reference tool when I wanted to check something while working on a new story. They turned me down.
I then decided it would be nice to have a perfect bound copy of the Normandy portion of that old history so I sent it in. That really was all I wanted, one copy. They sent me two. It happened to sell some when PA put it on the Internet. I didn't really care one way or the other. I still don't. I did enjoy posting on the PA board for a while.
But here is the point: Had I wanted to have it published by a major trade publisher I would have worked like hell at it. I would have used all the contacts I have ever made and they are many. I imagine I would have succeeded just as I succeeded in cracking the major short story markets when I wanted to. But I didn't want to with the Normandy book.
So it would be dead wrong to believe I wouldn't have tried to find a NY publisher had I wanted to. It isn't and never has been of interest to me. It's not my style. However, anyone who does want that should work day and night to achieve their goal just as I worked day and night to crack the market that did interest me.
I am a newspaper reporter at heart, a reporter who enjoys writing blogs, high school sports books, mystery short stories and novellas. Period. That's it.
If you want a NY publisher, work like hell at it. Work day and night at it. Chances are good that you'll succeed. It happens to people all the time.

I can't believe I'm actually saying it, but thank you, Dick. While I admire your career, I want something different, and as I've said many times, I'm willing to work for it.

Thank you for reinforcing that ideal.

domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Alice, we don't all die...I am going to be the first not to. I can't lie in one position that long.

Hey Domenic, maybe you could be another Flying Dutchman.

Domenic, nobody here has given up anything. Some of us have the ability to see reality as it is, and not as we'd like it to be. I have to say that from what I've read there are a few that probably should give up. I don't think Brenda is one of them, but I do think she needs to accept the fact, and it is a fact, that she may never get accepted by a major publisher, and begin to make plans on what she will do once a certain amount of time has passed.

I've said before, I will say again, that I think I have as good a chance as anyone currently on this board of signing with a large publisher. But the fact is that I am not going to moan and groan and delude myself into thinking that if I just get a bit better, if I work a bit more and if I just believe a bit harder, that it will all come true. I don't understand why some can't understand that out of many thousands or writers, only a very few will sign with a major publisher. Of those who do sign, only a very few will see any success by selling a large number of books. And from those very few, only a handful will make the best seller lists, and fewer still will become that rich and famous author they have dreamed of becoming.

What hurts us all, but keeps the dream alive, is someone like J.K. Rowling, who came out of nowhere and made it to the very top of the mountain. She makes us all think that it can happen to us, and the truth is that is can, but the odds are better of winning a couple of power ball lotteries in a row.

Don't give up on the dream, but make some kind of contingency plan in case it doesn't happen. That way you can always say you thought of everything.

And Domenic, you know what they say about believing in one hand and crapping in the other, and seeing which one gets filled first.

Dick, I don't often disagree with you, but on this one I think you're way off mark. Just because someone is willing to work hard at securing a New York publishing contract doesn't mean it will ever happen, or that they have a "good chance" of doing it. You know they don't have a good chance. Hell, they don't even have a bad chance. There's almost no chance at all.

I agree that if they don't go after it, it probably won't happen. Unfortunately, if they go after it with everything they have, it probably won't happen anyway.

It might have happened for you, if you'd pulled out all the stops and if you could use some contacts that you'd made over the years. Then again, it might not have.

My point is that for some it does, and for most it doesn't and there doesn't seem to be any common denominator. Hard work ain't it, talent ain't it, even luck and timing aren't it. Maybe someday someone will figure it out, but I doubt it. Until then, we can try, and if we're smart, we can develop a back up plan.

Once upon a time, I was told that I should publish my writing. The professor was serious, another with a book in a drawer while he helped other aspiring young authors.

I occasionally sent a story to magazines, but I had better luck with technical and business publications; and I liked success better than rejection.

In 1979 while living in Korea, a friend and I decided to write the Korean Shogun. She had a photo memory for the historical parts, and I was a story teller to bring it to modern times. Our partnership failed; but in 1981, I started writing our book. I left out the history part and wrote a different book; but it began in Korea and was filled with the influences of the Orient.

I dragged my research, my notes and my disks from pillar to post until the hurricanes of 2005 scared me into finishing and giving it to PA so it would be published before I died. I had few clues about publishing, royalties or fame. I just knew that I was destined to publish a book.

The PAMB was my teacher and I loved that experience as much as writing Arirang: The Bamboo Connection. I accomplished my goal: my book was published. However, the PAMB fired me up; and I continued writing.

I submitted to Tor Forge because they accept works without agents. I submitted to agents. I submitted to multiple small presses, some of whom were kind enough to tell me to write my stories and novels in third person, past tense, if I wanted them published. Once I did that with Ghost Orchid, I already had enough rejections to paper a wall; I was thrilled to sign with L&L Dreamspell for my second novel and two short stories for two of their anthologies. Added to the short story in The World Outside the Window, I was on a roll.

I'm already ahead of my original goal. Ego is my only issue. My friends and acquaintances helped me feel that my books not advertised at Barnes and Noble or ready to purchase from the shelf of any book store meant I wasn't really published at all. I wasn't much better than a hack who published their own book and sold it from the car trunk.

In particular, an old friend was so intent on me being famous, that I wanted it too just to make an impression. I have another novel in process, Virgin Odyssey, a collection of sailing vessels at sea with their stories coming to life in ports. It's a little complex and taking a long time to write. I might work toward finding an agent again when I have the first three chapters where I want them for submittals. If it wasn't for wanting to make an impression on this one person, I would be content. My sales have been steady, and I'm proud of Ghost Orchid. I'll enjoy its run, wherever it heads.

All right All,

Work, study write, pray--if and when you get your major publisher I hope you are happy and consider all of the sacrifices you have made to be worthwhile.

I am glad these are your goals and not mine.

Best to you. Just do it-no more talk--do it. We go over and over this. It has a very predictable cycle.

E.Don is right.

Sometimes blogging about a process helps clarify thinking. Sometimes repetition helps clarify it better. When a colleague comments about the blog, that's better yet.

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Good luck, Dominec, and whether or not you believe it, you'll need it.

I don't know if you will get published by a New York publisher or not, hell, I don't even know why that is so important to you. I'm a good writer, I know it, so do a lot of other people, makes no difference if I'm signed in New York or not.

However, if you think that wanting it and believing in it are enough to make it happen, you're in for a big disappointment. Maybe you'd be better off taking a crap in your own hand.

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Domenic,

Please get a grip. Life is much more important than a publisher.

E. Don and I have both faced our mortalitiy. Obviously you have not, or you wouldn' t be so flippant about it.

Don't be so eager to trade your life for such frivilous pursuits.

I don't know your family situation, but if I were related to you, I'd feel betrayed by your attitude toward life.

If my husband were that rabid about his career, I know we wouldn't still be together.

Don't let ambition push people away from you.

By the way , if I were betting here, I'd give best odds to
Dick and he'd beat ya all by a mile.

E.Don would come in a close second.

That's my opinion. They wouldn't even have to work very hard. Why?

Natural ability.

Don't worry about Domenic, Alice, he's busy pissing into the wind and trying to figure out what the spray that's blowing into his face is.

Give him a few years, and he'll either figure it out or get used to the taste.

E.Don,

It is a pleasure to converse with a rational person. The power of positive thinking is a great concept, but sometimes overblown.

I forsook a doctor over it. While I was heading for Pancreatic Cancer, he preached attitude . I got away from him, lived and guess what?

I am noted for having a great attitude.

I agree with E. Don. I also asked Brenda the same questions.

I would like to have something published with a small press where I work with an editor and help plan marketing, promotion or whatever. That's my particular goal, and I believe everyone here has different goals and they are all admirable.

Years ago a woman asked me to go to a weekly writing group, and she and another friend who said she'd take care of the kids, saved me from insanity, knowing I was often alone, knowing I loved to write. I've gone to conferences, read the books, talked to authors and have practiced the craft enough to fill a few boxes.

I come here sometimes and hear a lot of shoulds. "I should go for a major publisher. I should hone my craft."

I'm not going to do either. It would be beating a dead horse. (Since we've been talking about life and death here.)

But. . .I can write books for family. I can continue to improve the book that has my heart and soul connected to it. And, like DK, I know a whole lot more about writing and querying than I knew before getting published with PA and going on messageboards.

I love to write. I see writing in little scenarios around me like the train ride a few weeks ago and a group of four and five year-olds today helping each other out playing games on computers at the Mac store. I just listen and smile and think, "Now those are little incidents to put in writing sometime." And then I think where I would put them and get all excited.

A number of years ago I had two goals. One was to get a book published and one was to get a Phd. I could have gotten the Phd, except I would have had to give up traveling and family times, and chose not to, although little regrets creep in from time to time.

My goal with writing is in paragraph two above. In the meantime, I write for family, like the cabin journals. I love it. It is fun and family is involved and we're having a great time. I have eight years of cabin journals written by me and others who were there. Like DK, I decided I needed to get them published in some form so they would not be dependent on four hand-written books, but they are journals and need extensive editing before going to print. They will not go to print until they are the best we can make them.

What I write has improved 100 percent from those days at the writing group, but I have loved doing all of it.

Brenda, your goal is all right for you, but not for me. And I don't believe any amount of work, talent, or learning will guarantee success for you or anyone. I believe you are an excellent writer, but never forget you have already been published, and have helped other writers.

Sometimes I sabotage myself. I don't send that query. I don't enter that contest. Those things I need to work on. Those I have some control over, but what the people on the other end decide is not in my control.

And as with my friends who have faced death as I have, there is just a whole lot of joy in waking up each day, walking around, being able to put my fingers to this keyboard.

Love, Carol

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I've lived more than you can imagine, Domenic, and if you live to be 173 you will never live as much as I have. If you had done half the things I've done, seen half the things I've seen, breathed half the air I've breathed and tasted half the life I've tasted, you would be a lucky man indeed. Your problem is that you're so busy living your small, uneventful life that you can't make yourself believe that others may have experienced more. Alice, Dick, Carol and myself knew more of life when we were in our twenties than you will ever know. Perhaps you need to write less and live more.

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My first morning back in Europe and the first thread I read is about killing the hopes/desires of others. That is disgusting.
To dream, even though the dream may never be realized, is what life is about. Having a goal is the driving force that gets us up in the morning and gives our life a purpose. Sharing that dream with others is usually a mistake. Most people, especially friends, don't want others to exceed their own level, regardless of the niceties they put forth. The people who they can share their dream with, and get support, are those who have lived the dream.

Perhaps I'm still suffering from jet lag, but seeing Alice's avitar with the face of Dick Stodghill is confusing.

Welcome home, Abe! I bet you're glad to be back in the cool forest.

And yes, to everything you said. Thank you.

Hi Abe, I thought you moved back to the US, so you were just visiting?

I lived in Wiesbaden a long time ago. Had lots of fun and traveled all over, but missed the conveniences of the States. Was glad to come back.

Don, my point is that while hooking up with a major publisher isn't easy, it can be done. If it were easy, why bother?
I've seen a number of people do it in the field I know best, mystery and its sub-genres. I know from listening that the same thing applies with science fiction, romance and I'm sure some other fields.
Here's what I would do if I wanted a major publisher. I would go to New York, live in a commune, wash dishes, do whatever would allow me to eat.
I'd attend every meeting in my genre, and there are many. By doing that I'd get to know writers, editors, agents. I'd write every possible minute. I'd spend every other possible minute making the rounds of meetings, publisher offices, agent offices. I'd never stop. I'd make it.
Most people will say I can't do that. I have obligations, I have this that and the other thing.
But some do it. Some won't be stopped. It's difficult, but not as difficult as most people believe it is. It can be done. It is done every week of the year. OK, maybe not Christmas week.

I did something like that when I wanted to break into the major mystery magazine field in 1979. We lived in Cooperstown so it was an easy trip to NYC. I knew that selling to the Big Two was as big or bigger a challenge than selling a book, but the paths are the same.
I snowed the magazines under with submissions. I went from rejection slips to rejection letters, to rejection letters with apologies to acceptance. I rewrote the rejected stories and sold them to the third or fourth best markets. I attended every meeting, met the writers, met the editors, met the agents even though I didn't need them, stayed in the bars until 2 a.m. drinking with all those people. I soon was on a first name basis with everyone. I made lifelong friends. It worked. Thirty years later young people in the field can't believe I'm still selling to the major markets at my age.
It can be done. It can be done from Paducah or Peoria but it's one helluva lot easier to do it from New York.

Dick Stodghill wrote:

Don, my point is that while hooking up with a major publisher isn't easy, it can be done. If it were easy, why bother?
I've seen a number of people do it in the field I know best, mystery and its sub-genres. I know from listening that the same thing applies with science fiction, romance and I'm sure some other fields.
Here's what I would do if I wanted a major publisher. I would go to New York, live in a commune, wash dishes, do whatever would allow me to eat.
I'd attend every meeting in my genre, and there are many. By doing that I'd get to know writers, editors, agents. I'd write every possible minute. I'd spend every other possible minute making the rounds of meetings, publisher offices, agent offices. I'd never stop. I'd make it.
Most people will say I can't do that. I have obligations, I have this that and the other thing.
But some do it. Some won't be stopped. It's difficult, but not as difficult as most people believe it is. It can be done. It is done every week of the year. OK, maybe not Christmas week.

I did something like that when I wanted to break into the major mystery magazine field in 1979. We lived in Cooperstown so it was an easy trip to NYC. I knew that selling to the Big Two was as big or bigger a challenge than selling a book, but the paths are the same.
I snowed the magazines under with submissions. I went from rejection slips to rejection letters, to rejection letters with apologies to acceptance. I rewrote the rejected stories and sold them to the third or fourth best markets. I attended every meeting, met the writers, met the editors, met the agents even though I didn't need them, stayed in the bars until 2 a.m. drinking with all those people. I soon was on a first name basis with everyone. I made lifelong friends. It worked. Thirty years later young people in the field can't believe I'm still selling to the major markets at my age.
It can be done. It can be done from Paducah or Peoria but it's one helluva lot easier to do it from New York.

As my husband always says: those who want it the most make it; you can't stop them. Most want success but have a million excuses why they can't make all the right connections; be in the place they need to be; work the hours they need to work ... but, boy, do they envy the ones who do make it!