Obama Care More Problems, Keep Your Insurance Will Fail

11//18/2013

                     I don't give a dam about wall street !!

                                  Cheers...Joe..

Joe, wherever you are getting your information it is not entirely accurate and designed for scare tactics.  Please read the information provided by the ACA not the people who are trying to scare everyone.  I'm too tired tonight, but I will provide some accurate information tomorrow.

Also, al those that are concerned about socialism need to examine their living standard and see if they can live without their social security and medicare, the food safety we enjoy compared to many countries, the many excellent services provided by our government that makes our lives better, from local to national.  We are a long ways from socialism; but from what I have seen in some socialist countries, the lifestyle looks pretty good to me.

11/18/2013

                     Social Sceurity and Medicare have nothing to do with " Socialisim ,"
                     Socialisim is one step closer to Communisim, something this country
                     would never, ever tolerate, their would be a revolution first ! 

                                                    Cheers...Joe..........

DK.  Thanks for your posts.  I agree with everything you said and couldn't have said it better, or even come close.
Joe, I think you are obsessed with the words: "socialism and communism" and have succumbed to the scare tactics used to deny help for the needy.  Unions have helped workers secure better working conditions, pay and insurance.  Did you know that a union, collective barganing, is a form of communism?

The Affordable Care Act, once fully implemented, will save lives.  Just because someone is poor doesn't make them less human.  The poor have wants and desires just like everyone:  To have a home, a source for making a living, care available when they get sick and to enjoy life.  If that is socialism or communism, I embrace it.  Take away the labels and what you have is Christianity in action.  JMO

11/19/2013

                         This is scary, what this woman went through is an embarrasement
                  to the state and the govt. Read it , it will shock your socks off, it shows
                  how screwed up govt. is..
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/19/woman-cited-by-president-as-obamacare-success-story-frustrated-by-sign-up-process/?hpt=hp_t2

                                                          Cheers..Joe...

Why all the angst?  Why in tarnation is President  Obama reviled for wanting everyone to have health care?

If any of you became sick now, wouldn't you welcome it?

Just wondering what planet the naysayers are from?

Joe, Social Security started in Italy. After just a few years, they figured out the change in the population of the work force would not be able to support those over the work age.



The program was picket up by FDR, just to help at the time. It was not a program intended to stay in place. It was a band-aid. The program still does not work. Soon those born in the 1940’s will leave the work force. The government is letting those from Mexico stay, and become Americans, so they will have a work force to pay Social Security. What will happen when these new Americans reach the Social Security age? The program can’t work. That is why Bush wanted to turn it over to the private sector..so it could go BK, and stop. It has to stop some time. And yes, a large group of old people will be left up the river without a paddle. And every age group says, “Not me, let it be our grand kids.”



People have to grow up, and start acting like adults. Look how much time is spent on the stupid race thing. Not one person alive in America was a slave, nor one alive that owned a slave…we are still fighting over what dead people of the past did? How stupid can the human family be? Those in our government have to make people like them, or their out of office. This whole thing has gotten out of hand. Those who vote don’t care about the country, it’s a, “What do I get?” People have to grow up, and work for the good of all. This system of freedom does not work. The Greeks invented it…it did not work then, and America has shown it still does not work. Most people vote for what will help them.



It is called greed. That is not an adult thing. That is a child thing.

Most developed countries have a system to care for the elderly.  It is the right thing to do.  It is the elderly who fought in the wars, started the businesses, worked on farms and roads - and provided the backbreaking work so those that follow have opportunities.  The working class people have no extra cash to put aside to save for "old age."  In the undeveloped countries they beg, are taken in my relative or die.  We treat animals better.

There is no problem maintaining social security.  I have said many times that there is a large class of businesses and people that remain untaxed: tax-free and tax-exempt occupations, charities, donations and businesses. There is absolutely no reason on this earth for churches and charities not to be taxed.  They just put it in their budget like everyone else.

Social security is a payroll tax that comes from the worker.  Keep employment and wages high and there will be plenty to tax for social security.  There should be no cut-off for social security tax.  Income in every form should be taxed until the income stops. Social Security is taxed!  And it came from a tax. 

In addition to social security, people should be encouraged to invest for old age.  Reality is that with both in a couple working, today's working class couples have incomes declining, not able to put aside money for old age.  A basic structural change in education, training and employment needs to occur before people can be expected to "put money aside."

It's always those who have enough that talk about taking it away from those barely making it.  This is a rich, developed country.  All citizens need to take care of all citizens.  Most of the greed of which I am aware is with those who have plenty and can't seem to get enough.  Why is that the cures for societies financial ills must fall on the backs of those with the least?

Universal health care is such a non-brainer.  Even little Panama has universal health insurance for the economic health of their nation.  I need say no more on that subject.

I agree, the old should be taken care of. But, that does not change the fact that the present system can not last.

China has a system were the young(in a family) take care of their old. With the one child system, within ten years, a husband, and wife will have to care for six old people...the government will have to take over...in their present system, China will have to just print money. When a country does that, they will fall as all others have who resort to just printing money.

We need a work system whereby men and women don't kill theirselves off in middle age working around the clock and not taking vacations but rather are assisted by older adults who gradually work fewer  hours until they are phased out from the workplace gradually but are contributing to their income and and the economy and to the upward mobility of the middle age working class.  Sort of like in Real Estate where the realtor has an assistant who earns their income but also contributes to the master realtor. This magic retirement age is an archaic thing now out of date.  Various professions need different ages for retirement and people need not end their work life immediately, but rather gradually, with more time for leisure activity and grandchildren but still working time too.

I know, dream on.

DK, you expressed it well.  Those who are opposed to social security should refuse to accept it.  The same is true for healthcare.  To deprive others of the right to health care and to a means of living, is vile.  Social Security can never be bankrupt if the funds are not taken (stolen) and used elsewhere.  What a person receives is from the money they paid into the fund. 
Domenic, instead of using a failed system as an example, try using systems that succeed as an example.  Anything can fail if it is designed to fail or made to fail.  We see that happening with the ACA where the fight by the GOP is to make it fail. 

I don't care who you are or where you're from,  Being charitable is something we owe our fellowman.  What happened to love? As DK pointed out, people treat their animals better than they treat or wish to treat other humans.  There are always those who will abuse any program, fortunately they are in the minority.

Tell me Abe, What system of Government of man has ever lasted? The leaders all fall into the same trap...greed. And greed seems to be getting stronger. Clenton, a great President, well talking to a world leader on the phone, was getting a blow job...what kind of a leader is this?
57% of Americans did not want Obama care...so why do we have it? Who is running things, the white house, or the people?
Yeah it's okay to have thoughts of God, Country, and freedom...but is it all real? I don't think so. People are under the control of a Government. Who is the Government under control of? They don't do what the people want, so who is in control?

Not to answer for Abe, but to put in my two cents worth.  Within what has been said are many ways of looking at today's lifestyles.  Choice of lifestyle impacts how we wish to be governed.

First, two elections sent President Obama a clear message that universal health care was a priority.  Subsequently, the GOP propaganda machine assisted by the right wing television and radio gang of commentators whipped up a frenzy against President Obama and anything he touched.  People never understood the ACA, so they were "against" what the right wing told them to be against - duh.

Propaganda is expensive.  Unfortunately, those in favor of universal health care (not those who wish to continue gaining exorbitant profits from sick people, for sure) simply did not put the money into propaganda to combat the poor, gullible right wingers.  Those in need just don't have high paid lobbyists such as the Heritage Foundation and the Koch brothers, etc.

Health care attached to employers is part of an archaic system of long-term employment that does not exist anymore.  Portable health insurance needs to be the norm.  It also needs the efficiencies of a single payer system, similar to an HMO, with options for the wealthiest citizens to opt out for their non-insurance taking physicians like most of those in Naples, Florida, but not without their contribution to the universal system.

A healthy nation has a healthy economy.  Lost work is expensive.  Emergency primary care is expensive.  Epidemics are expensive.  Preventive care reduces the cost of critical care, eliminating much of it (diabetes, smoking, alcohol and drug addiction).  Universal health care is not a political issue, it is a quality of life issue. The best minds should put it together for everyone.  ACA is a start for the uninsured and those at risk of losing insurance and not getting insurance, a good start.

Who is running things?  The Koch brothers.  The Heritage Foundation.  A few more PACs and conservative foundations and money collectors who write the legislation to protect their interests.  International corporations, bankers, big airl, big pharma, AMA, and lots more acronyms.

You are right, the country does not belong to the people.  It belongs to the special interests.  No question there.  Only campaign reform and shorter term limits and adjustments to the congressional job description in terms of days of service can fix that.

Great post!

The biggest problem, to my way of thinking, is that this health care situation is the first drastic change in the way our government works. It will set the medical and pharmaceutical businesses on their heels, and lead to a domino effect that will eventually topple the mega-corporations, so they are going to do everything they can to delay it.

I've been working this afternoon on some household tasks with TV news going on in the background and have noticed a couple of statistics that have been coming up in unrelated topics.  They seem to me to be relevant to this discussion.

1 - around 5,000,000 people are having problems getting their insurance straightened out.

2 - there are around 11,000,000 people in the US who do not have legal documentation for being here.

I am not, at the moment ayway, trying to find solutions to either of these problems.

I am asking whether or not the problems implementing ACA are worth the growing lack of attention to the immigration problem.

We seem to be focused on the lesser of two evils, maybe?

Why might that be?

11/19/2013

                  I've always heard in the European countries they take care of their old,
        here they want to throw them in an old age home ! As for Social Security if they
        want to overhaul it , fine , those of us who are retired and paid in for 45 years
        should be given a choice plus interest and give us a full sum so we can properly
        invest it , have the younger ones control their own like a 401 K or IRA plan, the
        govt. has stolen enough from SS and they never tell you how much money you 
        paid in , big secret ????

                                                      Cheers....Joew..

It is possible to figure how much you put in.  You get your statement from social security.  It tells you the formula to apply to your total earnings.

The reality is that we don't get back what we put in.  Our earnings are from the money paid in by the workforce that follows us; but our formula is based on our own total earnings.

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Tell me Abe, What system of Government of man has ever lasted? The leaders all fall into the same trap...greed. And greed seems to be getting stronger. Clenton, a great President, well talking to a world leader on the phone, was getting a blow job...what kind of a leader is this?
57% of Americans did not want Obama care...so why do we have it? Who is running things, the white house, or the people?
Yeah it's okay to have thoughts of God, Country, and freedom...but is it all real? I don't think so. People are under the control of a Government. Who is the Government under control of? They don't do what the people want, so who is in control?

Domenic, judging a President on his personal life/morals has nothing to do with his ability to do the job for which he was elected.  A Clergyman in the Whitehouse?  Does one think they are pure?  The Right Wing is using religion for political gain.  We don't need religion in the Whitehouse.  We need competent/intelligent leaders.  JFK was competent/intelligent as is Obama.  History records that many great leaders were highly sexed.  The sex drive is a powerful motivator.  I wouldn't care if our President past, present or future, has a harem so long as he did the job he was elected to do.  Marital indiscretions are none of our business. 
Nothing lasts whether that be a system of Government or anything else.  We live in waves of ups and downs.  Riding the wave doesn't last.  Greed/power continues.   Those affected by greed/power ride the wave for a time and then come crashing down.  Nothing new there. I don't think anyone of us is without imperfections.  We can't change our past and we live with our faults.  The only thing we can control, with much difficulty is our future actions.  It would be foolish to say that we won't make the same mistakes in the future. 
IMV, the most honest President we had in my lifetime was President Carter and that turned out to be a weakness.  I don't think any leader can be totally honest.  To get the job done, a leader is often less than honest in what he/she says or does.  We judge our leaders on how effective they were in perfoming their job.
Usually, the person we vote to place in the position of President is a person with charisma.  Intelligence is not even talked about until the person is in the job.  Fortunately we have had leaders with intelligence.  We have had one leader in the recent past who lacked intelligence and took us into War based on lies/deceit. His election included questionable tactics.

Why don't we quit listening to every tale of woe. and consider instead our own experience.  Has our health insurance been canceled?  Have our rates gone up?   We are gathering every negative happening and enlarging upon it. So what if a website crashes?  They all do sometimes.  

I fear for what will happen once Obama is out of office. 


Ted Cruz is downright scary.

Ted Cruz is not going to be elected president, Alice.  He is a joke.  He eked out a senate seat because the Democrats here could not come up with a strong enough candidate.  There were still a few more Republicans than Democrats in Texas, and the state is gerrymandered in their favor, especially in some rural counties where fundamemtalism gets mixed up with politics.  The Supreme Court's recent blockage of parts of the Voter's Right's Act is allowing for more restraints, so we will have to deal with these extremists here in the state for a while longer, but he will get laughed out of a national election faster than Rick Perry did in the last one.

Abe F. March wrote:

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Tell me Abe, What system of Government of man has ever lasted? The leaders all fall into the same trap...greed. And greed seems to be getting stronger. Clenton, a great President, well talking to a world leader on the phone, was getting a blow job...what kind of a leader is this?
57% of Americans did not want Obama care...so why do we have it? Who is running things, the white house, or the people?
Yeah it's okay to have thoughts of God, Country, and freedom...but is it all real? I don't think so. People are under the control of a Government. Who is the Government under control of? They don't do what the people want, so who is in control?

Domenic, judging a President on his personal life/morals has nothing to do with his ability to do the job for which he was elected.  A Clergyman in the Whitehouse?  Does one think they are pure?  The Right Wing is using religion for political gain.  We don't need religion in the Whitehouse.  We need competent/intelligent leaders.  JFK was competent/intelligent as is Obama.  History records that many great leaders were highly sexed.  The sex drive is a powerful motivator.  I wouldn't care if our President past, present or future, has a harem so long as he did the job he was elected to do.  Marital indiscretions are none of our business. 
Nothing lasts whether that be a system of Government or anything else.  We live in waves of ups and downs.  Riding the wave doesn't last.  Greed/power continues.   Those affected by greed/power ride the wave for a time and then come crashing down.  Nothing new there. I don't think anyone of us is without imperfections.  We can't change our past and we live with our faults.  The only thing we can control, with much difficulty is our future actions.  It would be foolish to say that we won't make the same mistakes in the future. 
IMV, the most honest President we had in my lifetime was President Carter and that turned out to be a weakness.  I don't think any leader can be totally honest.  To get the job done, a leader is often less than honest in what he/she says or does.  We judge our leaders on how effective they were in perfoming their job.
Usually, the person we vote to place in the position of President is a person with charisma.  Intelligence is not even talked about until the person is in the job.  Fortunately we have had leaders with intelligence.  We have had one leader in the recent past who lacked intelligence and took us into War based on lies/deceit. His election included questionable tactics.

Lets take this apart Abe;

What is a leader? For one, a leader represents the people. The world sees the people of a county through their leader. The people of Germany, even though most were born after the death of Hitler, are still being judged by what that leader did. I for one have no doubt the people of Germany are good people, as the world judges good. Their leaders going back to the time of Rome, have been war like. Do I trust their present, or future leaders? I’m not sure I do.



I agree with you, the sex drive in humans is great. Here is my take on that subject; When a person is married, their mate is their best friend. If they have a great sex drive, their mate is there for them…they don’t have to cheat on their best friend. When they do cheat, they also become a liar. I for one will never trust a cheat, and a liar. If they can do that to their best friend, what do you think they can do to you, and me, who they don’t even know?



Like those who were under Hitler, don’t you think the world sees Americans as a people who can’t be trusted?



If the Queen of England cheated on her husband, how would that reflect on the people of England?



As to having a leader who could do the job. Well, again my thinking is different than most. I have never felt it was a one man job…I always like three, or more leaders with equal power. I understand a ship can only have one Captain, but a country is not a ship.



I believe a persons morals are more important than their ability.



I don’t like Obama as President for two reasons. He has no business back ground, and he is black.



Let me explain; A President needs a background in business if he/she is going to maintain a healthy economy. As to his being black…I have no problem with race, but there are many un-educated blacks in America, and they did not vote for Obama because he had the quality on needs to be President, they voted for him because he was black.



I like Obama as a man. I believe his morals are to a high standard, but if he was white, red, green, or yellow, I still would not have voted for him, because he did not have the tools he needed. We all knew it was going to be hard on the first non white in the white house…which means the first non white would have to be very, very good at what he did.



If he could run for a third term, I believe he could be the best President since FDR…but he can’t so that’s not even worth talking about.



A leader must, like the Queen of England, have high morals, or they can not be trusted. I for one, do not want a leader representing me, who can’t be trusted by their best friend.



I’m not going to claim there is, or is not a God, but, if there is a God, do you believe he would stand by a country with a leader who was a cheater, and a liar?

The Queen of England does not run the country. The Prime Minister does.

alj wrote:

The Queen of England does not run the country.  The Prime Minister does.

Stop being a little girl, you know what my meaning was.

Domenic, I had written an reply and then looked at the title to this thread and decided not to respond.  This thread has unintentionally been hijacked.  If you want to discuss morals and leadership, perhaps you should start a new thread.

11/21/2013

                     I just read the health care website is only 40% on, more trouble
               as of next year 20-50 Million people will loose their health care insurance,
               this is a total disaster, everyone is lying for everyone else and everyone 
               else is trying to cover their rearend...

                                                     Cheers.Joe...