American oil

I just found out something I wasn't aware of. In India and China the GOVERNMENT SUBSIZES GASOLINE!!!!!

They do it in Mexico, at huge cost to their treasury, but this is a producing country.

Offhand I can't think of a stupided, more self-destructive, auto-genocidal policy than a government dumping public funds into helping deplete finite resources faster.

Sometime I think even I would be a better choice to lead things than the meatballs in charge.

Governments around the world should subsidize alternative energies, not fossil fuels like gasoline and coal. We should be subsidizing the building of wind and solar power plants and the development and improvement of nuclear and hydroelectric resources. We should develop methods of making eathanol that do not affect availible food supplies. One option that should be invested in is making eathanol from switch grass. Another would be the makings of eathanol, methanol, and methane from garbage. Another good investment would be the collection of methane gas from landfills. The gas could be used in applications where we normally use natural gas or propane and burning the methane prevents it from escaping into the atmosphere, which is good, because methane left unburned is a worse greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. We need to invest in alternative renewable sources of energy, not polution emitting non-renewable fossil fuels. We need to move into the future, not stay in the past.

Exactly. And they should be taxing the hell out of fossil fuels.

Maybe have a gradually increasing tax rate and publish the schedule. Like, this is how much more your Hummer will cost you every year. You don't NEED to force the auto industry to meet mileage figures if people can see that they're going to get priced out.

A good thing about taxing like that would be that they could give certain exemptions for like ambulances, rural workers, etc.

And charge through the nose for jet skis and rider mowers and such useless gas burners.

Of course it would be political suicide...so it won't happen. Same reason those idiots are subsidising gas in the third world. They WANT people to move from oxen and bikes to automobiles. It's insane.

Mayby they should tax the hell out of gas guzzling products, like hummers, big pickup trucks, SUVs, jet skis, overpowered outboard motors, and oversized rider lawn mowers. We do not need SUVs the size of minibuses that get less than 15 miles per gallon and hummers that get less than 10. We certainly don't need boats with 115 horsepower outboards that burn more than one gallon per mile. No one needs a jet shi that goes 50 miles per hour or a rider lawn mower for a lawn only a small fraction of an acre in size. My family's lawn is a little over half an acre in size and we've always cut it with walk behind mowers. It saves gas and the exercise is good for health. In the past few years, I've seen an alarming number of boats with 100+ horsepower outboards and these are small fishing boats and pontoons, not sea-going vessles. I can understand a 35 or 40 horsepower motor for a pontoon boat or bigger fishing boat, but 115 horsepower is an insane waste of fuel. I think putting a sin tax, like that on cigarettes in many states, on items like rider lawn mowers, jet skis, SUVs, hummers, big pickup trucks, and outboard motors larger than 35 or 40 horsepower might be a good idea.

Walking on the golf course is now done mostly in a tournament. Good thing the golfcart is battery-operated, otherwise there might be golfcart hummers, and that would be a real bummer.

I think that gas will still continue its upward climb even as we expect it to come down. I heard this morning that even with the increased supply, we should still see gas go up probably for the rest of the summer before it starts to come down. Which in my cynical mind means that it isn't going to really come down; it'll just stop jumping obscenely every week.

We do have a subtle tax for big gas guzzlers here, so I am curious what happens elsewhere. When I register my car (get my license plates) it costs me about $60 per year. A larger car, SUV, truck or hummer is charged more (upwards of $200 per year depending on length of frame, gross weight and type of fuel). They also pay higher premiums for insurance, which is nice if you happen to own an insurance agency I suppose. We also have to visit a mechanic once a year for a vehicle inspection and they are super picky about teh quality of vehicle that passes. There is no leniency when it comes to registering a crappy vehicle; they refuse. Unfortunately these kind of rules vary across the country, so not every province is quite as strict as mine.

Do you guys run into these different registration fees/taxes where you are?

...hum



I know, I know, I'm just showing off. Black mark for Shelagh.

So that's what a golf hummer looks like. Hmmmm. Guess I'll have to change my opinion about hummers.

I think that was how I blew my game. CLEARLY if I'd have had a cart like this, I'd have done much better...not just because it's red, but I'm sure that helps.

Quote :

otherwise there might be golfcart hummers

Hate to tell you...
I live in probably the only place in the world where it's legal to drive golf carts on the streets. Locals own them instead of cars, tourists rent them to putt around seeing the sights.

Ten years ago they were electric, now they are all gas. And guess what..."Hummer" carts are appearing. Some are made for golf courses, some are made for outdoor activities. The snazziest one I've seen is making some green with envy here: it's a John Deere "pickup truck" sort of thing in golf cart sized but with butch hardward and "military" styling.

Oh, no...you aced me out while I was posting, Pam :-)

Hope the people here don't see that.



Seriously though, the carts use less gas than real cars. There is a whole spectrum of tiny vehicles here. Tricycle trucks, little "Lego" trucks that look like big delivery trucks, but are smaller than mini-vans, cars that look like Post Office trikes, etc.

I can't wait to see the high-end military grade wheel chairs they start selling when the baby-boomers get a few years older.

I think taxing the overuse of gasoline and other fossil fuels is a good idea. I think when people buy gas, they should get mayby the first five gallons at a lower tax rate and every gallon over five gallons at a higher tax rate. That way, the tax would burden the owners of large gas guzzlers more than the owners of fuel efficient economy cars. Also, I think higher (much higher) registration fees for hummers, big SUVs, and large pickup trucks is a good idea. Prehapse adding an "excessive fuel use tax" to the registration fees of these vehicles would be a good idea. People need to be encouraged to buy fuel efficient vehicles and vehicles that are alternative fuels compatible, not gigantic inefficient gas guzzlers. Another idea would be to offer a tax credit for people who opperate their vehicles on alternative fuels like eathanol, methanol, methane, and biodiesel. Prehapse tax credits for people who buy hybrids, pure electric vehicles, and alternative fuels compatible vehicles would also be a good idea.

It's not often governments can do good by taxing, but this might be a good place for it.

And they could do even more good by investing those tax dollars in the development of alternative energy technologies and in paying off the national debt.

I like your idea, Gordon. I can almost hear the Hummer folks screaming.

I was joking about golfcart hummers. Now I see it is a reality.
Why is it that something functional and simple must be embelished to be become bigger, faster, more expensive, use more fuel and be a polluter?

Abe F. March wrote:

I was joking about golfcart hummers. Now I see it is a reality.
Why is it that something functional and simple must be embelished to be become bigger, faster, more expensive, use more fuel and be a polluter?

Unfortunately, many people believe bigger and more powerful is better. Vehicle manufactures like to build bigger and more power vehicles, because they can brag about how much bigger and more powerful their vehicles are in advertising. Besids getting away from fossil fuels, we need to get away from the bigger and more powerful is better mindset.

lin wrote:

Oh, no...you aced me out while I was posting, Pam :-)

Hope the people here don't see that.

Lin--yer busted!!

I think the reason folks want bigger and better has to do with their drive for being the biggest, fastest, toughest on the block. That and, as we have seen, some folks think that they have a right to things which are really a privilege and not a right at all. We have this warped approach where we figure its okay to poison the environment now and clean it up later.

It's not just the countries that the members of this forum live in, but how do we get countries around the world to get involved? Places like Russia, China, India, Peru where there are lots of folks dumping lots of ick, burning all kinds of fossil fuels and belching mass amounts of pollution into the ozone, but they are also concerned with pressing matters like poverty, starvation, employment and access to clean water.

It's a very big job. Good thing that we are all working on books that help people enjoy, learn or escape life a little so that we can get it all done.

What about the Mo-peds and PPV's (People Powered Vehicles) from the 60's/70's? Although not too practical for inclement weather, they could be modified. Both were popular items in Ca. and Az. I should think golf carts would be more environmentally friendly than other modes of transport. Aren't they battery operated?

Most are gas anymore. ALL the ones around here being used for transportation are gas. And, like I say, this island is possibly the only place in the world wher carts are used as legal street transportation, so it's a good barometer for what happens with day to day use.

They have no windshields or side curtains, by the way, so are no better than scooters in the rain.

Scooters and mopeds are also REALLY big here. As throughout the third world.

Most cyclists don't worry about modifying their wheels for weather, they just develop workable garments. Like Gore-Tex cycling jackets and little windshields for helmets and such.

One thin about scooters as opposed to bikes... it's pretty hard to imagine a family of six on a bike, like they do on scooters. Although in Taiwan they had some interesting technology (mostly made of bamboo) for sitting a lot of people on a bike.

One innovation there was a vehicle made of two bicycles attached by a bar between the front fork and a little bench between the two rear wheels. There were no handle bars on one bike, just a linkage to the bars on the other one for simultaneous turning. Mom and dad on straddle seats and however many kiddos could pile on the rest.

Unfortunately, it was being marketed at about the time Taiwan decided it was better to import gas.

They actually (and how is THIS for government eco-stupidity) pushed converting from muscle-powered pedicabs to gas taxis. In order to get a taxi liccnce, you had to buy up (or extort) ten pedicab licenses.

Idiotic. When I lived there Taipie ran on animal and muscle power primarily. These days it's a smog cup with clogged streets.

Pam wrote:

lin wrote:

Oh, no...you aced me out while I was posting, Pam :-)

Hope the people here don't see that.

Lin--yer busted!!

I think the reason folks want bigger and better has to do with their drive for being the biggest, fastest, toughest on the block. That and, as we have seen, some folks think that they have a right to things which are really a privilege and not a right at all. We have this warped approach where we figure its okay to poison the environment now and clean it up later.

It's not just the countries that the members of this forum live in, but how do we get countries around the world to get involved? Places like Russia, China, India, Peru where there are lots of folks dumping lots of ick, burning all kinds of fossil fuels and belching mass amounts of pollution into the ozone, but they are also concerned with pressing matters like poverty, starvation, employment and access to clean water.

It's a very big job. Good thing that we are all working on books that help people enjoy, learn or escape life a little so that we can get it all done.

Isn't that the truth, people thinking that privilages are rights. It seems like people here in America think they have a right to big cars and trucks and SUVs and all sorts of gas guzzling resource wasting toys. Many people seem to think that driving is a right, but spicifically according to the law, it is a privilage. Owning a big vehicle is a privilage not a right. In fact, I'd say the ownership of any motor vehicle is a privilage not a right and I'd say that the ownership and use of gas guzzling resource wasting toys like jet skis, atvs, snowmobiles, and the like are definately privilages not rights. Around here, a lot of people seem to think they have the right to own and use these toys whenever and whereever they want and they also seem to think they have the right to have a 115 horsepower engine on their small boat! People need to understand the differnces between rights and privilages.

Much of it comes down to leadership. We want to be considered a leader in the world and we've done that with pollution. The pollution leadership role is being threatened by China.
Rather than succumb to this, why can't we take a leadership role in stopping pollution? Of course to do that we must set an example - and that's the hard part. Too many want to function by "don't do as I do but do as I say."
Only by our actions, not by words, can be effective.

Well put, Abe. The good examples speak the loudest, especially when they can show good results.

I think that working to curb pollution would be a great reason for people in the world to come together with one purpose, with many leaders from many lands. We are all stewards of this earth and each one of us can do something. I think it is amazing the fewer number of gallons of gasoline used, the fewer cars on the road, people driving together to work, not taking extra trips. I'd love to see trains return, and indeed there are actually ads on TV for train travel and reports on how it has increased.

Carol