American oil

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MS Reynolds wrote:

... The gov't says 'drive less', 'take public transportation', 'buy hybrids'. Bull. None of that will work. When the middle class can no longer afford to drive to work, I wonder who the govenment will tax in order to support the programs they say will help us?

--Melinda

People are already driving less. Use of public transportation has increased. Some trucking companies have already been forced to shut down. Many owner operator truck drivers can't afford to keep running.

I wonder about people making less than $7 /hr. Can they even afford to drive to work?? It may be cheaper for them to stay home.

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What we need are new, non fossil fuel sorces of energy. Electricity can be generated from solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric dams, and nuclear reactors. The price of solar and wind power has decreased significantly over the post few decades and it continues to decrease. As the prices of fossil fuels rise, solar and wind energy will continue to become more viable in the future. Tremendous power can be extracted from the heat of earth's deep interior, both for heating buildings and for electricity generation. Nuclear energy is safer and more efficient today than it ever was before. In fact, the nation of France gets about 80% of their electricity from nuclear energy. Nuclear waste can be reprocessed into new fuel for the reactors, which greatly reduces the amount of nuclear waste. People tend to be fearful of radioactive nuclear waste, but the fact is fossil fuel burning power plants have done far more dammage to the environment than nuclear waste ever has. People worry about nuclear accidents, but accidents can happen with any power source. Coal fired boilers can explode, windmills can topple over, oil spills can contaminate billions of gallons of water, ect. The point is nuclear power isn't really any more dangerous than fossil fuels. As for cars, many alternatives to fossil fuels exist as well. Lithium-ion battery technology will allow for the construction of long-range pure electric cars that can go more than 200 miles on a charge. Eathanol and methanol can be used in internal combustion engines (existing engines can be modified to accept these fuels). The production of Eathanol does not requier corn. It can be made from switch grass (which yields four times as much eathanol per acre as corn), waste organic matter, and even garbage. Methanol can also be made from garbage as well as methane. Methane made from decomposing garbage and sewer sludge could be used to heat buildings, power cars, generate electricity, and even barbecue. The methane can be gathered from existing landfills and burning it is actually helpful to the environment. Even though burning methane realeases the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, methane is many times more powerful as a greenhouse gas when vented into the atomsphere. There are plenty of sources of energy other than fossil fuels out there. In fact, the sunlight that hits the earth's surface in one day is more than the energy in all of the world's oil reserves. There's so much energy out there that it is amazing that we've gotten ourselves into an energy crisis.

Low cost gasoline has done a lot to wreck America.

Trying to scour the world out to keep gas cheap is doing a lot more to wreck us, and the world.

Gasoline NEEDS to be expensive. Hummers and rider mowers and jetskis and leaf-blowers are not good things.

Euro/Jap style railroads and bicycles and tight communities where people can walk to work are good things.

One thing is sure, we need to get away from oil and fossil fuels. We need to stop wasting energy with oversized vehicles and overpowered engines. We do not gas guzzling minibus size SUVs that get less than 15 miles per gallon! Besides walking and biking would help America's obecity problem and improve people's overall health.

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We have to look into the future and long term. We cannot continue to operate under the mindset that "I'm in a hurry, and need this now" because we're not leaving much of a planet for future generations and we're screwing ourselves in the process. I think it sucks that gas is so expensive, but actually the hybrids have come down so far in price and so quickly, that now the cost over the period of a year IS less than a regular gas car. And you don't plug them in; the batteries charge as you drive.

Alternative fuels are not decades away. We're already using wind power very successfully, and if people would stop griping about how a windmill obstructs their view, I'd be much happier. Solar power has also come down in price, and both of them are clean, viable alternatives that are in the marketplace.

N.America has plenty of oil still in the ground it's true...but it's not a clean source of fuel, and the refinement process is disgustingly dirty. The planet does not have enough fresh water to support an industry that continues to use fresh water and cannot clean it up. Don't be fooled into thinking that because an oil well sits in the middle of a corn field it's not a huge enviornmental drain. I would suggest that a visit to an oil rig, a view of the tar ponds or holding tanks might really alter people's opnions. Just because Henry Ford thought that every person ought to have a car doesn't mean that he was right.

As gas gets more expensive, I'm not just seeing truck drivers park their rigs and lose their livelihood, but the folks who work in transportation related areas are also being hit big time. We're laying off 2000 folks in the truck manufacturing industry, and another 2000 in a major airline because of fuel costs, and this is just news in the last two weeks. Regular folks are looking at their disposable income and redirecting it to their gas tanks, which will hit every virtually every industry that we have.

We've raped the planet to provide ourselves with luxuries we think that we have a "right" to. I have a "right" to drive where I want, a "right" to visit the stores everyday. I want clothes that are made out of recycled plastic. Un-uh. Those are not rights, they are priviledges, and with privilege comes responsibility. Often great responsibility.

Doing what's right is not necessarily easy, but it's doing what's right.

That's my soapbox for the day. :pirat:

Alternatives could be brought to the market faster if the government helped fund the development of the technology rather than flushing our money down the golden Baghdad toilet. Many alternative energy technologies are here right now, not decades away. Hydroelectrec, nuclear, wind, and solar are all availible right now, they just need to be expanded to cover our energy needs. If the government would cut through all the red tape and allow the construction of several new nuclear power plants, we could substancially reduce the amount of fossil fuels needed to produce electrical power. If the government would subsidise the construction of new wind and solar power plants, rather than spending billions policing the middle east, we could even further reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Existing car engines can be modified to burn eathanol and/or methanol. It is not nessacary to build all new cars to use alternative energy sources. We need to act now not decades from now!

MS Reynolds wrote:

So how do they support their families by staying home? More oil production means more gasoline available; more means less cost. That's what I'm saying.

--Melinda

Oh, I was just joking while trying to make the point that when you make minimum wage, you are barely earning enough to put the fuel in your car to get to and from work.

When my husband and I were younger, it wasn't worth the cost to put our kid in daycare (and I know it is worst today, my daughter in law is having second thoughts about going back to work) for me to work. I was a stay at home mom until he began school.

My husband and I couldn't even afford to keep a car (we also didn't have a TV), so he took the bus to work every day. I walked to the grocery store. I took the bus to the post office, bank, and library.

That's how we did things for about two years.

Our son actually loved our 'bus adventures'. We lived in San Antonio TX, which has a great bus system ... or did. We'd catch the bus downtown, go to the bank, then walk to the library next door, then walk a few blocks to the circus museum. There we'd catch a trolley down to the post office. I'd treat my kid to Burger King (we rarely ate out so it was really special). Then we'd take the trolley again back to our bus stop and catch our ride home.

We'd stop by the store on the way home and while I cooked dinner, my son would sit with his pile of library books.

Good memories ... no car needed.

I find it interesting that for thousands of years, civilization has gotten along without petrolium, but today it seems that we've gotten ourselves into a situation where we can't live without it. I think cheap oil in the past has caused us to put almost all our eggs in one basket so to speak and now that's comming back to haunt us.

You're right Gordon. It encouraged people to work and to do things outside of where they really lived, and so now we have all this sprawl without access to what we need unless we take a car or bus.

Our mayor was trying to make people feel better about the gas prices here and encouraging them to take the bus. Silly git that he can be, he didn't check things out first...our bus system can only accommodate a 3-4% increase in ridership because it is almost maxed out already. And it only serves about 65% of the area that the regional municipality services, so you actually cannot get a bus in some places. From my house to the bus stop is 1000 meters (0.6 miles) and we're in a very hilly area so we actually do have to walk up hill both ways. My daughter walks it twice a day, and has lost 20 pounds since we moved here last summer. Fringe benefit we're calling it.

Personally, I look forward to the day when my solar panels and windmill provide me all the power I need and I can get off the grid.

I think most people know what they need to do but will continue to delay until it is mandatory or simply too late.
Where I live people have been conserving for a long time. It is second nature. We have gardens. We ride bikes or walk. We use public transportation and only use our cars when necessary and I repeat the word necessary. Very few have AC in their homes. We learned how to close things up to keep out the sun/heat and keep it cool inside. The same technique works for the cold in winter. We keep the lights TV and PC turned off unless it is being used. We recycle. There are biking paths along the highways (excluding the autobahn of course).

America has been so accustomed to the use of cars that little thought was placed into public transport. Sidewalks in many places are non-existent and it certainly doesn't encourage anyone to walk, let alone jog. Biking on the highway is also hazardous where motorists don't give much consideration to cyclists. Things must change and it will take civic action by everyone to make it happen. Start complaining and take action. Don't wait for someone else to do it. Change starts with the person you see in the mirror.

Like Pam, now I will get off my soapbox.

Abe I rather enjoy you on your soapbox. Congratulations too, I see you've hit 500 posts, all while on holiday in the midst of power outages no less.

I think the statistics very clearly show America's addiction to cars and trucks and SUVs. Americans are about 5% of the world's population, but they own more than 30% of the world's motor vehicles. Americans also use about 25% of the world's energy resources. Today it is not uncommon for a family to own three or four or five vehicles. Years ago, families were able to get along with only one vehicle, but today people seem to think they need several vehicles. One or two vehicles for a family is understandible, but four or five or more is an insanity in my mind. Besides pursuing all possible alternative energy sources we need to conserve our current energy sources. If people used less oil, it is possible the price could go down, but the oil companies and OPEC would likely cut production to keep the price high in those circumstances.

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You used it all up doing the laudry!

Where did all the soap go? My dad sold it. He was a traveling salesman for Lever Brothers - Lifebuoy, Lux, Rinso and now Irish Spring and Lever 2000.
My favorite was, and still is, the old-time Lifebuoy that had a strong medicinal smell. Americans can't stand to smell anything that isn't sickenly sweet so they got rid of the fragrance here and now the soap is nothing. The original is still made in Ceylon and sold in many countries. It is available from the Vermont Country Store in the United States, where you can find many old products you never see in stores today.

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I remember getting my mouth washed out with Lifebuoy soap. Bloody awful taste and it stuck in your molars.

Good think it didn't happen too often!

I found the following while researching for my book on the Cuban Missile Crisis. My book honors freedom and democracy, but I also include this quote Castro made in 1992 at the Havana conference on the Cuban Missile Crisis.

“I do not think Third World countries need to imitate capitalism in consumption. I always wonder what would happen in the world if every Chinese family had a car, and every Indian family also had a car, and every family in Bangladesh, Pakistan and all those other places had a car. If they reached such a level of development, how much longer would the oil and fuel last? How much longer would the atmosphere tolerate this poisoning and all those phenomena we know about?”

I believe we can create a balance, bring back trains, rebuild sidewalks, still drive when necessary. It is sad that the first use of nuclear energy was for destruction. If it had not been, perhaps it would be used more today.

Carol

When I lived in the city, public transportation was used. As well as foot power. If we had it out here, I would use it as well.

There are circumstances and situations where a car is a necessity. So, the way I see it, either everyone must live next to their workplace, which means city life, or there must be a compromise reached.

It is impractical to think that farmers will live in the city and take buses to tend their livestock and crops. And how will they get their goods to market? They could hardly be expected to 'bus' produce to market, there would be no room for passengers!

There are many things to consider. And how are the people going to be forced to not use their cars? Or not fly everywhere they want to go? The airlines are helping with that, as their prices skyrocket. I wonder how much fuel is burned by candidates 'stumping' on their campaign trails.

This is a complicated issue, and I doubt that anyone can come up with a simple answer to fit everyone's needs. It will take effort on the part of all citizens, but how many are willing to go the extra miles necessary?

MS Reynolds wrote:

Does anyone remember LAVA?
That has to be the weirdest soap ever put on the market.

We used Lava at home when I was a kid. It was the best for removing pitch, tar and grease from your hands!

Pam, are you saying you had an occasional 'potty mouth'? I find that hard to believe!

Very occasional Zada, but it's true. My mum was a good washer outer when I was a kid, but once I joined the army, all bets were off.