My farewell to the PA board

I personally think Marie took a very reasoned approach to her situation, and I'm glad her rights were returned to her.

And to Marie, let me wish you the very best of luck with whatever publishing avenue you pursue in the future. I hope you succeed beyond your wildest expectations.

I totally remember the other board, and I also remember that no matter what certain people tried to say, they were jumped on and attacked. I wanted to hear what they said, and I think that if someone did not, they could've bypassed a post or a thread instead of arguing.

However, I love ya, Don, and I think too highly of you to get into a shouting match here. I want you to relax and take it easy. You and I simply do not agree on certain issues, but no matter what, I think you're a fantastic writer, and I'm so happy for the success you've already achieved.

Really, don't get in a shouting match over PA. They are not worth it, and at this point, are far beneath contempt.

Brenda Hill wrote:

"Living in the now is a gift, that's why we call it the present."

Beautiful, Shelagh.

Yes, I like that very much too.

I could lock this thread or delete it altogether but I would prefer not to.

Dick said that he was sorry he started this, and my heart sank when he did. The Chatter Box Board is the busiest on the forum and has survived perfectly well without any discussions about PA. There is a Publishers Board for this kind of discussion.

I knew that members here spent time on the PAMB and so there was no need to discuss PA business matters here. Having decided to leave the PAMB, some of the members wanted to discuss their reasons for leaving but when I left, I set up the Children's Fiction Group on LibraryThing (over 800 members), the Published Authors Network (over 700 members), the Published Authors Group on LinkedIn (400 members), Published Authors Group on Goodreads (300 members) and set up groups for Aspiring Writers and Authors on Facebook and Shoutlife with a combined membership of over 600 members.

I am also a moderator for the Children's Fiction Forum on the Internet Book Database website.

When I am not doing any of the above, I am adminstrator of this board that I set up on January 11th 2008. I am top poster here (2,267 of 18,544 posts) and I have created twenty-one html pages for featured members of the forum.

That's enough for me to do without having to moderate PA threads that go on forever and resolve nothing.

deleted by merri

deleted by merri

If my book gets rejected over and over again that to me is a sign that I need to either do a serious rewrite or write another, better book. I have 100 novels on my hard drive that will never be published. I sometimes steal ideas from them, or parts of them end up in other works.

If I really, really, really wanted to share one of them, I'd go to Kinkos or Lulu.com.

Since this thread won't die a well-deserved death, here is my take on PA. Having signed many contracts and being able to read one, I knew exactly what to expect. I had spent most of my life working with various segments of the publishing business and knew what it was all about. There were a couple of portions of a family history written years earlier that I wanted in a more finished form. PA provided that and did a beautiful job of it. I never bought a single book from PA and never will. To my amazement, one on the Normandy Campaign sold well. It has earned about the same as a short story sold to a major market. Among places it has ended up are the library at the United States Military Academy at West Point, the General George Marshall Foundation and the archives of the 4th Infantry Division.
I got exactly what I expected from PA. Nothing more, nothing less. When someone expects more, they know nothing about either the publishing business or contracts, probably both. That's unfortunate, but is the fault of no one other than that individual.
PA fills a niche in the publishing business. It has its uses and its purposes, its good points and its bad. Those who moan and groan about how badly they were treated or how evil PA is are wasting their time when they should be writing something that might sell. Writing with the thought of marketing your work is one helluva tough business. At times the writer is a seller and at times a buyer. Whether buying or selling, he or she must know the meaning of caveat emptor.

For Dick, PA isn't a bad option at all.

My view on PA is three-fold. Some people may have their best work published through them and feel that due to pricing, market availability, etc. that their book does not have a real chance for greater exposure. Another view is you could have a book that due to content, editing, etc. on the market that you feel does not represent your current level of writing. The third view is that you lost control of a lot of effort, ideas and long hours spent for $1, an email acceptance and no up-front cost prodution/publishing.

Whatever view you hold, it is a learning experience never to be forgotten. I hold view 2 and 3, but it does not give me bitterness. My eyes were thrown open by PA as to how multilayered this business is.

I found out that free is not free. Paying for certain things has been good for me as control has meant that my last two books came out just the way I wanted. I also discovered that work can cut through the chorus of "nope" you hear from corners regarding self/POD/subsidy. You can still get great reviews, publishing contracts and advances.

If the work is sound, effort can attract attention. Generate demand and someone in traditional publishing will smell an opportunity for profit. It helps to be absolute in your belief that your work is only different due to the publisher's name on the book instead of the quality of the work inside. Outside sources will let you know if the quality is there or not.

I can tell you if the next Harry Potter was discovered with a PA or iUniverse stamp on it and the demand train started to roll, all of those old arguments would fall by the wayside.

I agree with a lot of what you said, DT, but if the first Harry Potter novel had been through PA, I doubt it would have been seen enough to create a demand.

My first novel, Ten Times Guilty, received excellent reviews from some nice places; however, few people could read it. No local bookstores in S CA would carry it, and some readers had trouble ordering it through our B&N. Two libraries in our district would not accept it even as a donation because of the PA stamp. I order quite a few books online, but I know beforehand what book or author I want to check. For authors with PA, unless they've already built a name, their books have little chance in the market.

And I certainly agree with Merri. If I had known all of this before, I would have waited to hear from two agents who had requested the manuscript.

I think the worst is the knowledge that my book was not accepted on merit and only used to fill a quota. My pride in my work was totally diminished.

I will agree, tho, it's been quite a learning experience.

But I'm learning to live in the present. That's why I love the quote Shelagh posted. All of our experiences, good or bad, only has the power we give it. I'm learning to look forward and do what I can to make better choices in every area of my life.

JK Rowling started out the same as every other UK would-be author:

Quote :

Rowling says she started writing the first book, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, in Portugal, where she was teaching English and had married journalist Jorge Arantes. The marriage lasted just over a year, but produced baby Jessica.
Leaving Portugal, she arrived in Edinburgh in 1993 to stay with her younger sister Di, a lawyer, with just enough money for a deposit on a flat and some baby equipment. "I was depressed and angry. Angry that I had messed up my life and let my daughter down." She went to visit a friend of her sister's who had a baby boy. "His room was full of toys. Jessica's toys fitted into a shoebox. I came home and cried my eyes out."
The tears did not last. Harry's bravery strikes a chord with children because he is full of anxieties but gets by on luck and nerve. Rowling agrees she is much the same. "It's not pure luck," she explains. "He has the will to get through and I never lost that. When you are really on your uppers, you don't sit there and cry, you try and get out of it."
However, stories of an impoverished single mother living in a rat-infested bedsit and scribbling her way to wealth in an Edinburgh coffee shop are journalistic inventions. "I am a single mum, I did, and still do, write in cafes, and I was broke," says Rowling, who recently gave £500,000 ($710,000 US) to the National Council for One Parent Families and became the charity's first-ever ambassador.
"Those early stories neglected to mention that I come from a middle-class background, I have a degree in French and Classics and that working as a supply teacher was my intended bridge out of poverty." And the bedsit? It was a mouse-infested two-bedroom flat.
At first nobody wanted to publish Harry Potter. "The fact that it was set in a boarding school was very un-PC as far as most publishers were concerned," Joanne explains. She was told that the plot, like her sentence construction, was too complex and too long. "That unnerved me because I knew it was going to be the shortest book of the series!" Refusing to compromise, she at last found a publisher, Bloomsbury, and, armed with an £8,000 ($11,000 US) grant from the Scottish Arts Council, plowed into book two, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/cookarama/readigukintdec00.html

PA authors in the UK can apply for grants just as JK Rowling did. But if they did and didn't succeed, they would blame PA for not providing them with a writing credit. This is absolute nonsense. Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine is given full credit on the Academi website (and, no, I did not send any of the information listed on this page):

http://www.academi.org/list-of-writers/i/132476/

There is nothing stopping me applying for grants and the fact that my first book was published by PA would not be held against me. However, the competition would be great and that might be quite a stumbling block.

While nothing may stop you in the UK for anything you wish to do, Shelagh, that's not always the case everywhere.

I stated a fact as it happened with me. Others have stated theirs. You might have a different experience, and so might Joe Blow from anytown, but you simply can't demean an experience others may have encountered.

Be the moderator and encourage others to talk about their experiences instead of ridiculing them. PA authors get enough of that in the outside world.

Brenda,

I am not ridiculing anyone. If you or any other PA authors felt that they suffered because they signed a contract with PA, then you and they have my full sympathy. I was told many times by many members of AW that being published by PA was worse for me than if I had not been published at all. I can't argue that this would not be true for some authors but it was not not true for me.

I don't know what opportunities there are for writers in the US but in the UK anyone can apply for a grant. Whether you succeed or not has as much to do with those you are in competition with as it does your own writing experience. One thing that is most unlikely for a first-time author is that their first novel will become a best-seller. Not even JK Rowling managed that. Didn't she do well?

Yes, that's true, but her novel had the chance. PA's do not, and most of us who signed years ago did not know that.

If the experience you've had with PA is to your satisfaction, then that's wonderful, but for most writers who are actively pursuing a novel writing career, it's not.

However, as I've said, I'm well-past that experience and so are many others.

I know your feelings about AW; I've followed your posts since you first mentioned them on the PAMB. I've found them to be welcoming, experienced, and very helpful. I'm sorry you have not.

It's twenty to one and I'm going to bed. I have spent most of this evening sending out a hundred personal messages to MySpace friends asking them to vote in the P & E poll and I'm whacked.

I agree with Dick, enough has been said about PA. The inly conclusion the discussions, snipes etc have accomplished is pointing out once again how many different oppinions there regarding publishers and publishing. I think we can agree to disgree and move on.

Amen, Nutter