OBAMA TO SIGN EXCEUTIVE ORDER TO GIVE ILLEGALS AMNESTY

6/24/2010

Just read that if the Democrats can't get the 60
votes it needs , Obama will sign an executive order
to give 11-15 Million illegals Amnesty...This is an
illegal act and TREASON against the Constitution..


Cheers..Joe

Wow ...just wow.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/23/lawmakers-warn-administration-plan-unilaterally-grant-blanket-amnesty/

The "Executive Order" isn't even written; so, I don't see how he's going to sign it yet.

Personally, I'd rather see emphasis on job creation than throwing out the Mexicans. I would miss those that live near me. I envy their family get togethers with music and feasting. I admire their work ethic and emphasis on education. Their faith is also something to admire when so many these days have lost touch with their spiritual selves.

It helps to have immigrants that have cultural similarities so we don't have to put labels on their clothes like the Nazi's did with the Jewish people. It's handy in frightening economic times to have a whole group of people to blame instead of the real culprits - war, greed and inept politicians. Those are too big to wrap our hate around; it's easier to hate people.

And the part that just bowls me over is that people I respect and love are so full of hate and bias and downright bigotry - and don't see it in themselves because it's seems to be socially acceptable these days to blame Mexicans for our sins.

I guess if lies are pounded out from every corner over and over, we're bound to pick the ones that suit our own fears to have something to believe in.

I would add a post to this thread, but DK is doing such a good job, I will just commend her on her insight.

Ann

dkchristi wrote:

I guess if lies are pounded out from every corner over and over, we're bound to pick the ones that suit our own fears to have something to believe in.

What are the lies being pounded out?

Ann, that wasn't even supposed to post yet; I had a couple more paragraphs about what "color fear" is really about and how we all started out black in Ethiopia and bleached out to survive when WE migrated north and needed Vitamin D - and if demographics are moving us into darker skin, well, we're just returning to our roots - and it's supposed to be the heart and soul of a man or woman that represents humanity, not the color of feathers....but I just knew that the choir will clap and those consumed with bigotry and hatred will pull out their stats and their talk show commentators - commentators by the way - not journalists (who do have some ethics) - and hang on to their fears. If you can't win with facts, fear is a great motivator.

And then I was going to just delete the whole thing and "presto" here was part of it already posted. Alas, I'm a technical dodo (I think "idiot" was the word used by another forum member.)

Anyway, who am I to believe we are all made in our Creator's image with the resources of this earth laid out for us to prosper. Borders were man's creation to "keep out" the less desireable so he could profit by owning what belongs to God in the first place.

Just watch a river reclaim its path, a city sink in flood, lava flow down a mountain, hurricanes flatten a town - this earth does not belong to us, nor do the resources. They are gifts.

6/24/2010

DK...Ann..

All I'm saying is that people should
come here legally, my grandparents came here
the hard way, so why should any group and I
mean any group, I don't care if your Mexican or
European, you have to get at the back of the line.
As of right now drug cartels have taken over a
mountain region in a national park in Arizona, what
is the govt. doing ? NOTHING ! We need the Green
Berets and the Army to take hold of the border area
for once and all , the thieves in Washington won't
do it and don't want to do it........

Cheers..Joe

The drug cartels are here because the U.S. Citizens buy the drugs at tremendous profit to the sellers in the cartels. Money talks. It's not the Mexican border that's the problem, its the U.S. drug problem. If we didn't use the drugs and pay the high prices, the cartels would have no reason to fight over each other's ownership of the drug industry. And that's what it is, an industry. That's a separate issue from immigration. We support the poppy industry in the country we are fighting - anything more ironic than that?

As far as standing in line; these illegal immigrants were invited here by major corporations who needed cheap labor. Trucks were sent to bring them across illegally. These poor people didn't have the sophistication to know you and I would hate them after our economy went sour. They were simply, as your ancestors and mine, in search of work to keep their families from starving.

If there is no work, they won't come. Simple. When the true culprits, the employers hiring and exploiting the immigrant workers are taken to task, the illegal immigrants won't come. They come here for one reason, and one alone: work. Unlike the hate mongers would like us to believe, they do not come here to use our social services. They die first. The fastest way to stop illegal immigration is to have no jobs for illegal immigrants. Period.

However, states like Arizona give opportunities for people to exercize their frustration with our political system and the present rotten economy.

The fastest way to stop the drug cartels is to stop buying drugs. Period.

It's time to stop blaming the victims and take the blame to the top. The problem is that the top has money and power and political clout and the power of Madison Avenue to put the blame on those least able to carry it.

6/24/2010

DK..

It's up to Mexico to support it's own people
their govt. is corrupt and everyone knows it. We are
not responsible for other people, Washington is just as
blame as the Corp.'s these companies should be fined
heavily , and I mean heavily like 1 Million Dollars. It's
against the law to be illegal, if it were you or I trust
me we'd be deported so fast our head would spin. The
people in Nov. have to get rid of the politicians in
Washington who think they know better than the
American public, they forget we are the boss, not
them...We make the mistake of putting in power the
wrong people, now we have a bunch of Sociolist who
are trying to cram everything and anything down our
throats , I'm sorry but the Democratic party is so far
left it's disgusting , but come Nov. they will be thrown
out and no I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat nor a
tea partier , I vote with what I think is right ...

Cheers..Joe

Joe, I respect your opinion which has some elements in common with mine.

I believe that career politicians in all parties are more concerned with keeping their career positions than with meeting the needs of their constituencies. They also wish to maintain their elegant lifestyles, untouched by the current economic downturn.

Are you aware that an article in the WSJ today showed stats that the millionaires are doing as well as ever, untouched by the economic downturn. The politicians are in this class of people. They want to keep it that way. They have the best medical insurance, the best pensions, great incomes and perks and prestige. What a great job to be insulated from the common person, the one who pays the taxes that support them. The wealthy have loopholes; contrary to myth, they do not pay their fair share or anywhere close to it. Of course, the wealthy class is "entitled" to their perks by virtue of their wealth. Wealth proves they are the superior class, deserving of special considerations.

As citizens, we can make a difference by being active first in local politics, then state and then national. We can not fall victim to lies, inuendo, hate mongering and slogans. Instead, we can be well-informed and participate in the support of candidates who are citizens first and candidates second. Instead of blaming "the bunch of them," we can learn who really is an excellent legislator and throw our support there. My dad "pulled the democrat handle" and would "vote for dog if it was a democrat." It's that kind of thinking that keeps career politicians on our dole.

Before we stoop to race profiling which is what cloaked "immigrant policies" are really doing, we need to develop good immigration policy. If a piece of that includes deportation at this point (palimony is awarded to a partner who was there long enough to seem married...and easements are granted for property used consistently as an easement, etc.) as a logical part of a full and rational immigration policy, then it needs to be done with the humanity that the U.S. likes to espouse as our ideal, not destroying families that are part U.S. citizens and part illegal. Not harassment, not creating ill will in otherwise good communities.

And I guarantee you that Canadian, Eastern European and other white "illegals" with financial resources are not deported "so fast your head spins." They blend. They are protected by their white friends. I know; I lived in Key West where they jumped ship. The hotels were grateful; at least they were white. Cubans made Miami what is is today - one foot on U.S. soil. The immigration policies are bits and pieces, reactionary and biased is every way. No, it is the Mexicans we fear - the fear of demographics in this country changing the color from majority white to majority color..........

But we cloak all that in words that sound good and politically correct. The commentators with their own agendas keep it flowing. And once again, actions are reactionary instead of part of an overal economic strategy to benefit of all citizens of the U.S. (the purpose of a democracy.)

6/24/2010

First we have to change the immigration laws, like
other countries, you just can't walk in and stay, they
will deport you. Second in order for everyone to pay a
fair tax , I think the Flat Tax idea is great, or a
National Sales Tax , 15% everyone pays, no one gets
away from it rich or poor, get rid of all the 1000 page
laws of the IRS, no more loop holes. As for the
politicians in Washington , they should have one term
and one term only, then out, four years is enough..Oh
the Flat Tax or National Sales Tax would be the only
tax , the old system out the window...


Cheers..Joe

My Jamaican friends came into the country the old fashioned way: they had a sponsor and a job. Then, as they gained their citizenship, they sponsored other friends and family members.

The difference is that the U.S. provided different policies for different groups of people. Cubans had a one-foot on land policy and came by the boatloads, risking lives and losing lives.

When Haitians, certainly needing political asylum as well, put one foot on land, they were locked up because they didn't have the Cuban wealth and political influence to protect them.

The Mexicans were literally delivered by trucks to the farms of America at the invitation of the huge food industry - to do the sausages, pluck the chickens, and pick the crops. They were provided filthy housing and abominable working conditions, men, women and children. Yet, it was better than Guatamala and some places in Mexico where they were starving. They didn't get the idea to come to the U.S. on their own, they answered huge billboards that promised them a new life and they climbed into the trucks, scared. Some were kept like slaves, locked in trucks. Women were used to service the single men. Crew leaders extorted money from the poor migrants in addition to being paid by the farm CEO's.

I enjoyed my cheap food compared to other countries of the world. I ate my cheap chicken and sausages and steamed my fresh vegetables without a clue about the misery that brought them to me, misery that was at least better than starving where they came from. So, I had a hand in this immigrant mess myself. If we all volunteer to pay twice as much for our food so U.S. citizens will agree to pick it (though the back breaking work in the sun is still more than most white citizens will tolerate; they'll get food stamps first) that will reduce the number of migrant workers. One trip through a chicken processing plant was enough to stay off chicken; but then beef is worse, so back to chicken.

See, I knew we were getting closer. However, no one is going to make those changed unless WE make it happen. WE say to each other what we want but take no action to make it happen. I at least sent a pre-printed post card to Washington to support a policy and I have lobbied on behalf of legislation by visiting the staff of Congressmen and Senators and providing them with information flyers.......one little speck in their over booked calendar.

Just a reminder, too. The non-elected staff members up there in Washington - they are pretty powerful too.

The tax system is obnoxious, especially in a global economy with the moneyed set knowing how to avoid paying the government with special tax loops all over the world. A small example: I suggested to a friend that she use her Florida address because we have no state tax. Put that on a national scale and add in other countries where huge congomerates do business.....legal loops to avoid taxes that the ordinary citizen doesn't have.

I really don't believe the founding fathers envisioned career politicians. I do think they believed people would be elected from professions to which they would return after serving in Washington. They expected the elected men to represent the professional men of the community from which they were elected. On the otherhand, I'm glad for some changes - like every citizen has a vote, including women. They sure didn't expect that....

DK,
there is nothing I can add to what you have already expressed.
You are a humanitarian and have a world view.

6/24/2010

Evidently some people don't believe
that the cunning Democrats will try
to pull a number on the American
public , if they do, their careers are
finished .......!


Cheers..Joe

Quote :

if they do, their careers are finished

I don't know what makes you think that.

I watched President Obama on the news tonight, carefully. He's looking older already. They always do. It's a thankless job. I admire anyone who attempts it, even for all its glory. At least some of the presidents came from families that were sort of like royalty, generations of politicians. They know how to be presidential without it impacting who they are as people. President Obama has no such history. He has such a calm demeanor that I imagine he carries his burdens deep, and they'll come out in gray hair. It's a good thing he wears his hair short.

First term Presidents have it tough. They get caught up with the prestige with all the perks and want it to last. At the same time, they try to fulfill their campaign promises. To keep their job, they must compromise. By compromising they lose much of the support that got them into office. Their focus on getting re-elected is another distraction. The second term President can tackle the tough problems more effectively, however as he nears the end of that term he becomes a lame duck and ineffective.

Presidents love a crisis that threatenes the country. The people are united and rally around the President. Some even create a crisis to help them keep their jobs.

Abe F. March wrote:

First term Presidents have it tough. They get caught up with the prestige with all the perks and want it to last. At the same time, they try to fulfill their campaign promises. To keep their job, they must compromise. By compromising they lose much of the support that got them into office. Their focus on getting re-elected is another distraction. The second term President can tackle the tough problems more effectively, however as he nears the end of that term he becomes a lame duck and ineffective.

Presidents love a crisis that threatenes the country. The people are united and rally around the President. Some even create a crisis to help them keep their jobs.

Personally, I thought he did an excellent job handling the McCrystal matter. His announcement had just the right tone. He is doing the best job anyone can with the circumstances he faces.

Ann

6/25/2010

Sorry ! He should be IMPEACHED...
He's going against what the people
want , he keeps shoving things down
our throats..If he does mass amnesty
I predict that's the end of his career,
he will be forced to resign....

Cheers..Joe

alj wrote:

He is doing the best job anyone can with the circumstances he faces.

The circumstances he faces are that no one except Nancy Pelosi ("We have to pass health care so the public can see what's in it.") supports him anymore. The McChrystal incident showed how high-level the mistrust for him is. Scary.

Is there any politician that can be trusted, really? I think not. Once in power, the pressures to meet the need of so many constituencies and fulfill their campaign promises is enormous. A first term president has an enormous responsibility. This president, in particular, is the "first."

Geez, I remember a great training video call "X and O". It was a slide show about being O in a room full of X's. First, you were a spokesperson for all other O's even if you weren't one of them otherwise. Second, because you were an O, you had to be better than an X to get half the credit. There were many other scenes and examples. Then, when the medics hauled away the O for exhaustion, the X's said, "We knew all along the O couldn't do it."

For the MESS inherited by this president and that built in complexity beyond what he anticipated when he accepted the nomination, I prayed this country would get behind him for its own sake. He has pretty much done what he said he would, even if the political realities watered it down and compromised it; yet, now the Tea Party folks and those whose own ends are simply to "throw the bum out" to get their agenda have swooped in with repetitious rhetoric that undermines the good for which he was elected. If he sneezes, it's a Democratic plot.

Last I knew, President Obama is not God. He doesn't say that he hears God's voice. He is a man, an educated pubic servant of high level intelligence and a world view that is needed in this global economy. He is a man of vision who needs solid detail people to trust, coalitions of differing views to help with decisions. I am at a minimum grateful that when he steps to the podium on a world stage he is an orator; he speaks correct grammar. He looks and acts presidential. I am a proud American to know he was elected in this county that from its inception has been dogged by an undercurrent of racism and bigotry that, combined with greed, continues to undermine the fabric of our ideals and feed the commentators who take a sliver of truth in a sea of hatred and build it to a frenzy for their own commercial ends. And the people believe what feeds their own fears: that this country is changing, the world is changing, and their kind won't fit in the new world, one of diverse populations, ideas and beliefs. So they cling to fear and hate and narrow viewpoints for comfort and are prey to those who need them to help their own selfish ends.

I believe the backbone of this country is not the corporations, not the government, not public or private sector per se. The backbone of this country is its ingenuity, the ability of a man or woman to take an idea, open a business and grow enough to hire. The huge congomerates that have taken power destroy the economy by their hugh layoffs in poor times and their controls over capital, prices, supply, etc. They have the global funds to buy influence to support their exhorbitant salaries, bonuses and profits while sending jobs to other countries.

To me, that's the crime of this economic downturn, the crime of shoring up the big guys while the mom and pop businesses board up their windows and slink away, entire strip malls in decay. The big guys can only hire and fire so many. There are infinite possibilities in the capacity of the human mind to create new products and services if the adequate supports were there. That's one of the reasons I am so supportive of immigrant populations. They are often the ones who start those new businesses, who buy up the defunct neighborhood stores and drive-ins and motels and turn them into employment opportunities in a local community where it doesn't take an hour's drive to get to work.

So, if there is a horizon where President Obama has not yet met my hopes, it is the support of start-up businesses to create new jobs. It's the public works jobs to rebuild our bridges, levy structures and buildings. I don't want unemployment benefits extended again - I want public works jobs for those unemployed that keep their pride in focus for when the real jobs are created.

I don't want to destroy what he has already accomplished, like the X's in my training film, I just want more, President O, I just want more.

DK.
Wish I could express the situation as well as you have.
Simply by his presence/stature, Obama has given America a facelift. Being respected is more important than being liked.

Everybody is on edge these days. The world is in a mess, and changing faster than we can take it all in.

We still think of ourselves as a nation with borders, when we are, in reality, one part of a whole planet of people who need to work together if we are going to get through this mess.

As far back as the 1950's, Marshal McLuhan pointed out that the world had stopped expanding and was imploding, as we had transversed the whole of it. No more maps had unknown places labeled Here Be Dragons.

Joseph Campbell once said that we cannot kill the dragon without killing ourselves, for the dragon is a part of us. Maybe Walt Kelly's Pogo said it better: "We have met the enemy and he is us."

If John McCain had been elected, he would be taking the flak now. We are expecting miracles from a man who is expected to be some sort of messiah.

We will not be able to solve the immense problems facing us all if we continue to run to the extremes. Campbell again - he called it enantiodromia, and said that the answer lay in coming to the center and operating out of the compassion that recognizes the validity in all perspectives.

That old elephant keeps coming up. Blind people everywhere are claiming that the tail or trunk or ear that they each have a hold on is the whole animal, and expect everybody to see it their way.

This earth is that elephant, and the only way we can grasp the whole, and keep it going, is to try and understand our neighbors point of view.

The borders are illusions. We are each part of one whole organism.

Just me.

Ann

Ann, and DK,

Very well said.

Joe,
I can sense your frustration. We are over newsed now. No one can possibly please the news media. They are compelled to tell it all. If one person does not like an action, we must hear why. I would love to see them do a job if they followed everyone's whims.

I would like to limit the news media. I realize that can't happen, but think how nice it would be if instead of doom and gloom news we had some good shows like Andy Griffith.

Listening to the news is an exercise in futility. When the man killed himself, they said, "something is wrong."

EVERYTHING IS WRONG--ACCORDING TO THEM!

6/26/2010

Alice..

I agree.. You never hear as an example,
teenager saves granny from thug, or dog saves
boy from drowning.....

Cheers..Joe