The Outlander series

Well, I couldn't avoid it any longer.  Too many people have compared the Redstone Saga to Diane Gabaldon's Outlander books.  So, I broke down a few months ago and started reading them.  She definitely writes in the same genre, historical/romance/fantasy fiction with time warps as a basic plot element.  It was comforting to learn that some of my ideas are not as way out as I had thought.  I can see a possible audience if and when I can get the time and means to promote to that group.  The biggest difference is that she has at least a dozen books on that NYT list.

I was relieved to find that I wasn't completely enthralled with the books.  I liked them, mostly, but found some things kind of annoying.  She tended to go on and on, sometimes going off on tangents that weren't necessary to the story line, taking chapters to cover what could have been done in a page or two.  I frequently found myself skimming pages at a time to get beyone the detailed digressions. Each of the 8 books in the series (so far - a 9th is coming out in June) are soap operas in print.  The characters keep getting caught in cliffhangers and left there while the book shifts to a different time warp or sub-plot or both.  Many of the plot twists are to unrealistic to be believeable.  I kept gettting a feeling, though, that if she could do it, maybe I could, too.  One of the several reasons I put off reading was that I was afraid I would be so overwhelmed that I might just give it up, and that didn't happen.  What did happen was that I felt more confident and comfortable with what I am trying to achieve.

That being said, it is easy to see why they are so popular.  Jamie Fraser, the 18th century Scottish highlander, is probably definitely the most delightful fictional character I've happened on in a long time.  All of her major characters are finely drawn and her history is impeccable, even if some of the situations are improbable.  I can also see the evidence of some fine editing - the kind that is possible with a major publisher's polishing.

One of the extras in several of the current Kindle versions have to do with the inclusions of interviews and articles by Ms. Gabaldon that give some insight into what she does and how she does it.  For instance, she told that the time travel idea came about because she couldn't seem to create a believable romantic interest for Mr. Fraser, feeling that an actual 18th century woman could not have the personal power necessary to cope with that gentleman's strength, so she came up with the idea of sending an independent 20th century career woman back in time.

What really impressed me yesterday, as I was finishing the last book, came from her author's notes at the end, and the point she made that she had spent a good three years on each book (The earliest was published back in the 90's), that it required that much time to do justice to the characters, history, and story development.  I feel better now that it is taking me the time it does to get my own stories to truly come together.  That kind of time does make a difference.

The odds, though, at my age and at this time, of getting a contract are quite slim.  I'm not thinking that I could manage that, but I do have a better feeling of the value of what I do, and feel encouraged to continue with my concepts for the series.  

I'm content with being a tiny cog in the big machine, and contributing in my small way.  I think I will keep on writing, at least for now, and working at doing my best, in my own little way.

Keep going, Ann!

OLD WRITERS ARE LIKE A GOOD WINE...

Many writers have published their first major work late in life. Mary Wesley might be a classic example. She wrote two children's books in her late fifties, but her writing career did not gain note until her first novel at 70, written after the death of her husband. Harriet Doerr published her first novel at age 74, and went on to great praise. A possibly more well known example might be Laura Ingalls Wilder. She became a columnist in her forties, but did not publish her first novel in the Little House series of children's books until her sixties.
Memoirist and novelist Flora Thompson was first published in her thirties but is most famous for the semi-autobiographical Lark Rise to Candleford trilogy, the first volume of which was published when she was 63. Frank McCourt didn't publish his first book Angela's Ashes, which he later won the Pulitzer Prize for, until he was 66. Children's author Mary Alice Fontenot wrote her first book at 51 and wrote almost thirty additional books, publishing multiple volumes in her eighties and nineties. Kenneth Grahame was born in 1859 and joined the Bank of England in 1879, rising through the ranks to become its secretary. Although he had written various short stories while working at the bank, it was only after his retirement in 1908 that he published his masterpiece and final work The Wind in the Willows.
Richard Adams's first novel, the bestseller Watership Down, was published when he was in his fifties. The Marquis de Sade published his first novel, Justine, after turning 51. Raymond Chandler published his first short story at 45, and his first novel, The Big Sleep at 51. Jean Rhys is best known for her novel Wide Sargasso Sea, which was published in October 1966, when she was 76.
Aron Ettore Schmitz published his first novel Senilità in his 38th year, however it was not until he published Zeno's Conscience that he made a breakthrough, aged 61. Even this was self-published.
In other areas of writing, poet Wallace Stevens started late in life after years as an insurance salesman and executive. Although he was first published at 38, his "canonical works" came out in his fifties. In philosophy Mary Midgley had her first book when she was 56. Edmond Hoyle wrote a booklet on whist in his late sixties. To avoid unauthorized copies he wrote the copyrighted A Short Treatise on the Game of Whist at age 70.
The Indian writer and polymath Nirad C. Chaudhuri wrote his autobiography The Autobiography of an Unknown Indian at the age of 54. He wrote a sequel to it Thy Hand, Great Anarch! at the age of 90. He published his next work (and his final work) Three Horsemen of the New Apocalypse at the age of 100.

Dear Anne,
"Rock" on! You will make it.

I think of Tolkein whose The Hobbit was copyrighted in 1937 but was not a household discussion until the 1970"s.  Without his work, I feel that there would be no success for the Harry Potter series.
I hope that you do not have to wait 40 + years to see your series in the spotlight it should be in.

Domenic, 
What a throng of authors us old people will join!  I wish you the best with your books.  It takes courage to let people look at your work.  
Love,
Betty

I wonder where this belief that one can be too old to get a contract came from. I have never had an editor ask my age. Maybe older people don't get contracts because they think they're too old to get contracts, hence stop trying.

LC wrote:

I wonder where this belief that one can be too old to get a contract came from. I have never had an editor ask my age. Maybe older people don't get contracts because they think they're too old to get contracts, hence stop trying.

It's not smart business to spend money building up a writer who may soon die.

Where did you get that pearl from, the same place that said it takes 2 years to put out a book once the manuscript is accepted? Publishers don't build up writers, they build up books, and you know what, they don't spend a lot of money doing either, really. They publish and market a book. If the writer gives them another one that they want, great, but they turn down plenty of subsequent proposals from their writers, too.

Personally, I don't plan on dying anytime soon.  My dad's dad lived an active life until he was 97.  As far as the contract goes, though, it isn't what I'm looking for at this stage.  I've spent a long time working hard and fulfilling obligations.  This is my time now, and I prefer living it in each moment, according to my own standards, doing what is fun and makes the day joyful.

Thanks for the encouragement, though.

Annie

LC wrote:

Where did you get that pearl from, the same place that said it takes 2 years to put out a book once the manuscript is accepted? 

  I don't know anything about how long it takes to put out an accepted book.

I repeated what Diane Gabaldon wrote in the "Author's Notes" section of her last Outlander novel, An Echo in the Bone, that she spent three years on each of her books.  She continues to get her books published, and they generally make the bestseller list, so she seems to be doing pretty well.

I was addressing Domenic's post about how publishers don't want to build up an author who may soon die. This might be true if publishers actually built up authors, but for the vast majority of us, they don't.

Oh, sorry.  I see your point.

LC wrote:

I wonder where this belief that one can be too old to get a contract came from. I have never had an editor ask my age. Maybe older people don't get contracts because they think they're too old to get contracts, hence stop trying.

I hear a lot of talk about how much you know about the publishing industry, so don't tell me, show me. What name do you publish under, and what books? So far you're all talk, and no show.  I've asked this of you before, and all you do is side step.

You make stupid statements and I ask you about them. You never answer. Yet you expect answers on your own irrelevant questions.

LC wrote:

You make stupid statements and I ask you about them. You never answer. Yet you expect answers on your own irrelevant questions.

If I make stupid statements, it's because maybe I'm stupid. You on the other hand try to present yourself as a published author. Again you just side step. If you're real, step to the mark, or zip it.

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

LC wrote:

I wonder where this belief that one can be too old to get a contract came from. I have never had an editor ask my age. Maybe older people don't get contracts because they think they're too old to get contracts, hence stop trying.

I hear a lot of talk about how much you know about the publishing industry, so don't tell me, show me. What name do you publish under, and what books? So far you're all talk, and no show.  I've asked this of you before, and all you do is side step.

You asked and LC replied. You don't read posts even on your own threads, Domenic:

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

LC wrote:

Quote :

If I get an agent, and she sells to a standard publisher, it could take two years for a book to be ready for the printer.

What are you basing this on? My books are in print four-six months at MOST after manuscript submission. My current one is being fast-tracked, meaning it should be out even sooner.

Are your books with a big New York Publisher, Small press, or ?

LC wrote:

Wiley, Prentice-Hall, Cengage, Bloomsbury, TAB/McGraw-Hill (large)
Stackpole Books (mid-size)

I agree w/ AW being mostly a waste of time, which is why I haven't visited it in a long time. Doesn't take away from YADS being wastes of time, too. Do you visit Authonomy?

Shelagh wrote:

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

LC wrote:

I wonder where this belief that one can be too old to get a contract came from. I have never had an editor ask my age. Maybe older people don't get contracts because they think they're too old to get contracts, hence stop trying.

I hear a lot of talk about how much you know about the publishing industry, so don't tell me, show me. What name do you publish under, and what books? So far you're all talk, and no show.  I've asked this of you before, and all you do is side step.

You asked and LC replied. You don't read posts even on your own threads, Domenic:

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

LC wrote:

Quote :

If I get an agent, and she sells to a standard publisher, it could take two years for a book to be ready for the printer.

What are you basing this on? My books are in print four-six months at MOST after manuscript submission. My current one is being fast-tracked, meaning it should be out even sooner.

Are your books with a big New York Publisher, Small press, or ?

LC wrote:

Wiley, Prentice-Hall, Cengage, Bloomsbury, TAB/McGraw-Hill (large)
Stackpole Books (mid-size)

I agree w/ AW being mostly a waste of time, which is why I haven't visited it in a long time. Doesn't take away from YADS being wastes of time, too. Do you visit Authonomy?

Shelagh, I do read my own threads.

Anybody can come onto a forum and claim they are a published author with a standard publisher. I’ve seen this before on other writers forums. All I’m asking is she back it up. If she is what she claims I’ll take her advice…if not, I won’t. She won’t even give the name of one of her books.



A few years ago I challenged a Big Time New York published author by the aka Wolf. All the advice he gave was word for word from one of Sol Steins how to write books. I have these books. I know them by heart. I ask him to post just one page of any fiction he had written. He did, and it showed his lack of skill. He was not what he claimed. He left the forum saying he had to go back to Hollywood where he was working on a movie.

I will listen to anybody who knows anything about publishing…just show me you are real.

You show what you have done with ebooks. People can trust you know what you are talking about…she has shown nothing…just named some publishers.

Oh, blow it out your ass, Dominic. I'm not giving you advice -I've never given anyone here advice. I occasionally ask you why you make the statements you make. Instead, you side-step and ignore. Which is your privilege, just as answering what questions I want is my privilege. I don't owe you anything. "Zip it" yourself -this isn't your board.

A disadvantage of posting one's work is people then send unsolicited manuscripts and queries for feedback, and ask for advice and contact info. Then they get upset when I decline. BTDT.

LC wrote:

Oh, blow it out your ass, Dominic. I'm not giving you advice -I've never given anyone here advice. I occasionally ask you why you make the statements you make. Instead, you side-step and ignore. Which is your privilege, just as answering what questions I want is my privilege. I don't owe you anything. "Zip it" yourself -this isn't your board.

A disadvantage of posting one's work is people then send unsolicited manuscripts and queries for feedback, and ask for advice and contact info. Then they get upset when I decline. BTDT.

Did your mama never wash your mouth out with soap?

No, I didn't grow up in an abusive family like yours.

LC wrote:

No, I didn't grow up in an abusive family like yours.

I make it a point to treat a lady with respect. In your case, I'm holding up three fingers.
You can read between the lines can't you?

Cool it, Domenic. No one here has asked you to prove your credentials as a lawyer. We accept that you are who you say you are. I would like to think you trusted me because of who I am and not because I can supply proof of what I'm capable of.

No big deal, Shelagh, my fault for arguing w/ an idiot. Should've known better. I have more productive things to do.

I respect the rights of a person to post to a forum and  keep their identity unknown. I do think the forum monitor should know approximately who is posting to protect members from real scammers when possible.  We bear responsibility, however, for our beliefs.

I wish my identity were better cloaked.  The abuse of people on forums, Facebook, etc. is unbelievable when many are there to share, learn and simply express a genuine opinion or give a useful bit of information.  I am currently purging the emails that LC is attempting to prevent.  My inboxes are jammed with junk.  I need a new email address!

I have been badly maligned on Facebook by about 4 people who once posted to this forum.  My identity is not a profound secret, but I don't make a point of sharing it.  Some of the things said to me were intended to be sufficiently threatening and disgusting to stop me from providing facts that other people had the right to know.  The sexual intonations were repulsive and I wish my identity was gender neutral.

I have been posting with the people on this forum since 2005 in one forum or another and find each a unique individual, some with whom I agree and others with whom I take exception.  In the past, we trusted forums too much and revealed personal info.  It can't be taken back, yet it helped us bond as human beings.  I am pleased that the majority of the postings, though sometimes contentious and emotional, were carried on with dignity and heated by firm beliefs not attempts to demean or harm another person.

I learn lots from people with whom I disagree.  Therefore, though they sometimes get under my skin, I must admit that a bit of dissonance that is not name-calling and stupidity can be a learning experience.

While LC needs no defending, I identify with her need for privacy.  There is no rule here that demands full revelation.  I will say that often I disagree with LC philosophically and politically - however, I do believe that she is a valuable member of this forum and is missed during her steps away to catch up on other priorities. 

That does not mean we believe every poster as genuine.  We must use our own experience and that of our colleagues to sift the genuine from the false if possible.  Linked In drives me crazy with the verifications that purportedly keep their members "real." 

Remember all, that here we see words, not faces, not histories, not body language.  We see words - and most of us are wordsmiths.  Words can be harsh.  Better that they be kind, factual and interesting.

I will add, though, that when a new person joins the forum, I find them more interesting when they at least point us to one publication or something "real" about them.  I am more apt to give credence to the words of a person about whom I know something as opposed to a voice from the darkness of the unknown.  That's just me - (did I borrow that from someone?)

 'S!

Couldn't-a said it better myself!