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 A modest proposal for a new century . . .

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dkchristi
joefrank
Abe F. March
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Victor D. Lopez
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 6:15 pm

After the President gets your problem taken care of , Ann I would like him to address mine.

I am disabled. Eight years after being diagnosed with PD I applied for benefits. The reason:
I had trouble getting to work, fell on the streets of Seattle, and sometimes had to sleep at my office because I couldn't get to a bus to get home.

I quit my job in 2002. Turned down for benefits. Reapplied turned down again. Hired a lawyer
and got benefits but had to pay 1/4 of my settlement to lawyer. Why is this allowed?

Americans are so paranoid that someone might get a benefit they don't deserve, they cheat the disabled. Pathetic.
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 6:18 pm

Alice,

Me, president? Great. But I already laid out my plan for a worker's paradise, did I not?

Now you want a capitalism plan too? O.k. I'll play along. Let's see. First I'll go out and have my daily round of golf to sharpen my mental skills and then I'll take my wife to a nice Broadway play in the middle of rush hour again in the middle of the week, just because I am President and deserve a break (and she's the First Lady and is married to me so deserves two breaks.). Plus, it's not like traffic was moving particularly well in Midtown Manhattan even without my motorcade. Let's see, then I'll hold a fundraiser, also in Midtown Manhattan since it is where all the privileged people live who like to feel good about helping the little people--also at rush hour and during the week, just because I can.

Now that I'm rested, all cultured up and have my treasure trove topped off, I'll set my considerable mental powers to the task and fix Betty and Annie right up. in one of my famously simple lucky seven step plans.

1. I'll close the borders and issue an executive order requiring eVerify to be used effective immediately as a required step for all new employment work with Congress to provide a meaningful guest worker program. No more illegal aliens hired or sanctuary cities;

2. Work with Congress to exempt interest from savings from federal income taxes and preempt states from taxing savings income under the Godlike powers granted Congress by the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Commerce Clause;

3. Work with Congress to provide incentives to Community Colleges to create six month and one year certificate programs geared specifically to providing employment (students can return and take Chaucer, Shakespeare, Kant, Marx and Engels, and a healthy dose of liberal arts AFTER they are gainfully employed making a decent living wage. This will put for-profit diploma mills that dominate this area out of business and provide a better quality education to students who can become plumbers, electricians, masons, builders, hair dressers, licensed practical nurses, truck drivers and a myriad of other high paying blue collar jobs with the potential to make them wealthy and provide America with the jobs it needs and is willing to reward with a decent wage. Community colleges can continue to offer a path to a four year degree at a fair price--but they should get 100% tuition reimbursement for providing new six month to one year certificate programs to students who qualify for PEL grants based on need;

4. I would drastically cut the budget of federal agencies that cannot pass a litmus test for providing essential services well and at a reasonable cost (I would select a bipartisan commission to work on this rather than inject my own opinion of what are essential services or how that ought be measured). I would do this by executive order for executive agencies and work very closely with members of both parties in Congress and some independents to do the same for the Independent agencies under Congressional control;

5. I would use the bully pulpit and the facts in my control to argue for the repeal of NAFTA which has proven an overall failure. (Yes, I'll be voted off the island again by conservatives on this one. Tough cookies to them.) The balance of trade with Mexico has gone from a surplus of about 1.5 Billion the year before NAFTA passed to what now has to approach 100 billion in a trade deficit. Canada has fared better than us too, to sat nothing of teh companies that moved their operations South of the border to take advantage of cheap, hard working labor and non-existent environmental regulations (by our standards, despite the NAFTA requirements);

6. I would abolish the federal corporate tax (Now the liberals will vote me off the planet. Tough cookies to them, too.); this will immediately stimulate the economy, create jobs and create more tax dollars than are lost in fairly short order. I would not, however, preempt states from taxing corporations if they so choose. Let them hang themselves if they choose to do so; it is their right and privilege to do so;

7. I would lobby Congress to do away with the current federal income tax altogether and institute a flat tax with exemptions for low income families and two rates for everyone else: 10% for family incomes up to $100,000 and 18% for family incomes above 100,000%. All other tax breaks, deductions and incentives are abolished. No maximum caps. No special treatment of capital gains. No special treatment for dividends. (But a complete exemption for interest income per paragraph 2 above.)

All done. I'm ready to take my wife out for another play, as soon as I play another round of golf. No one said it would be easy.


Last edited by Victor D. Lopez on Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 6:32 pm

Alice,

Now you're just working me to death. I solved our economic woes and now, without so much as a round of golf or a nice Midtown Manhattan dinner I have to solve another one? Well, O.K. But just this once. And then I'm going to eat my dinner.

Your lawyer was generous doing this for a 25% contingency fee. The going rate is 50% which is excessive (though there may be a lower statutory limits in certain cases of which I am unaware). This is not an issue for the President to resolve. It is deeper than that and the solution will get me voted off the island by my brothers and sisters at the bar (if my articles have not already accomplished this). I actually have a scholarly article co-authored with a friend and colleague that I believe would resolve this issue currently out for review. It calls for the abolishment of the American Rule in civil litigation and the adoption of what I call the world rule (a/k/a the British Rule a/k/a/ loser pays) that would require a losing party to civil litigation--including state and federal governments--to reimburse the prevailing party's cost. You were denied coverage wrongfully and had to take several appeals, the government should reimburse you the cost of the litigation. No different than if you sued me and lost, where you would need to reimburse me for my litigation costs as well under the "English" or "world" rule. Alas, the current system which best serves lawyers has each party paying their own lawyer's fees. But now that I'm president, I intend to fix that, mostly by using the bully pulpit to shed light on the issue and convincing people that we have been trying to lead the world in the wrong direction for more than 100 years.

That was really easy.


Last edited by Victor D. Lopez on Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 6:46 pm

Dear Annie (I like being President, Betty. But thank you for coming to my defense.),

O.K. this is REALLY my last response and I'm shutting down for the night as public servants have to eat too.

Your concern raises a critical issue of how education is funded in the U.,S. that needs to be addressed at the STATE level. No, we Presidents cannot and should not fix all problems, no matter how tempted we are by the confidence gained by our egos, high IQs and ruddy good looks.

But I'm not avoiding the issue. I believe that Governors need to move away from funding public education largely through property taxes and fund it with income taxes. It is unfair and unreasonable to have only persons who own real estate fund the education of our children. All should contribute, each in accordance with his/her income. Under my flat tax proposal, even with a zero corporate income tax, the yields would be MUCH higher. No 14% for Mr. Romney, and no high prized lawyers/accountants to lower his tax bill or carve out loopholes. Of course, states would remain free to tax income as they saw fit--flat tax, corporate income tax, etc. One caveat: if I could not
convince governors to do the right thing, the Commerce Clause is still available to me (working through Congress, of course) to force the issue and require that education be funded via a state income tax. But I think that governors, state legislators and the American people could be convinced of the need for change and I would get a bipartisan group in Congress to help me make the case to the American people.

Differences in states would still exist, but much less so, and none at the local level as revenue would be allocated from a single pool based on need/student population. Beverly Hills residents and would get no more money for their schools than those in east L.A., and the same would hold true for the residents of the upper east side of NYC and their lesser affluent neighbors in, say, Erie or Delaware Counties. Equality in educational opportunity is something extremely important to me. The federal government could then step in and give block grants as needed for schools systems that need help and can meet reasonable standards.
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 6:55 pm

"Once all class systems are abolished by a benevolent government that fairly redistributes wealth."

I suspect that Betty and I have a bit more in common than most of the other folks here. I know, first hand, exactly where she is coming from.

Now, Victor, before I comment any further, I'd really like to know your definition of "wealth redistribution." I'd also like to understand the context in which you used it here, which may be different that your definition.

After which I'll see if I can add anything to the conversation.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 8:53 pm

Thank you, Mr. President, I will therefore ask that the govt reimburse me for the money I paid to get what was rightfully mine plus the money they cheated me out of by declaring my disability date to be the date I first applied but was refused and then paid only 18 months because they dragged their feet for two years then said they could only pay backwards 18 months

The final insult was, I had to declare the total amount as taxable income and was not allowed to deduct the lawyer expense.

Now I am referred to as a leech and a moocher because I am on govt assistance.

I pay taxes and would be glad to pay more. I would like a more fair system though.
Just charge me something equitable. affraid affraid affraid
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 9:13 pm

9/23/2012

Alice..

It's called a " FLAT TAX ," at 35% for Everyone,

all other tax Fed, State & City would vanish over night.



Cheers.Joe....Very Happy


Last edited by joefrank on Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 9:18 pm

9/23/2012

A so called Liberal Democrat put this up on Face Book,it's

disgusting, vulgar, this person who put it up should be

thrown off of face book !

Cheers.Joe.........Very Happy

A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 60234_10
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 9:26 pm

E. Don,

The context I am referring to is socialism in its extreme leftist forms (e.g., Marxism/communism/anarchism or some variant thereof as practiced in the 20th Century) and redistribution is the confiscation of most private property by the state to be distributed as it sees fit to the people.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 9:34 pm

9/23/2012

E Don it's called SOCIALIST DEMOCRATS that's what's

running our government right now, wake up smell the Folgers !

Cheers..Joe...A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 748523
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 9:38 pm

Alice,

I thought your question a hypothetical one. Whether it was so or not, the truth is that under the circumstances described there is no remedy, and that is tragic. There ought to be, and would be if I had my way exactly as described.

No rational person could call anyone on disability a moocher or a leech as you have paid for the social security benefits that were wrongly denied you. I don't consider social security or disability income public assistance, by the way; you have a vested right in a system to which you have contributed taxes for a period of ten years or more. There are some moochers and leeches on public assistance, though, to be sure and they offend me because they take funds that others need. Anyone in need who qualifies should receive assistance--more than is currently available in many cases. Anyone who is scamming the system should be thrown in jail.
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 10:35 pm

Do you guys realize that every tax we pay is a redistribution of wealth? Taking it from one group and giving it to another.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySat Sep 22, 2012 11:50 pm

Victor, your plan has much merit. The problem would be to get it implemented. Obama had a good plan, getting it implemented was/is the problem.

As Don said, distribution of wealth is inherent in the system. Is it fair?

Once we can shed the labels, i.e., Socialism & communism, we may find that they too are inherent in a good government. Providing for the social welfare of the citizens and people working together for the common good. There are various forms of socialism and communism. Some are extreme and it is the extreme that the opposition uses to try and kill a good program. Europe is seen by many as socialist and therefore evil. There are not two countries exactly alike. Providing for the needy is a good thing and yes, that is social services. How to distinguish the needy from the greedy is a problem faced by all. Just because there is some abuse doesn't mean you kill the program.

We often hear wonderful stories of the American dream and the "Rags to Riches" stories. They are wonderful. Have you read any stories about "Riches to Rags"? Those stories are ignored, but exist. Some are caused by unemployment. Some are from health care costs. Some are caused by living beyond ones means. How does one get out of debt? How can one live with dignity? Is there a plan to help people get back on their feet? What happens to Seniors who are no longer employable and taxed out of their homes? Whatever system of government, there should be a plan for these human conditions that exist and will persist.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 9:48 am

Victor,

It is all true. I paid for over ten years.

It makes me cringe when I hear about the moochers!
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 am

9/23/2012

Alice..

I read an article a few months ago about an illegal

couple each was living in a different state, each got SS

disability, Welfare and food stamps ! As I've been told

before people who aren't citizens know how to work the

system, you and I born here are totally DA ! when it comes

to getting benefits, this couple were boyfriend and girlfriend.

Washington is broken that's why I believe in a National ID Cards

with your info that way no one can get benefits who don't dseserve

it.....

Cheers..Joe...A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 925501
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 10:32 am

Joe,

The media has you in a frenzy. Do you personally know moochers? If so, report them.
Don't listen to the hype and hate .

Instead of bringing poisonous pictures here, paint a beautiful one.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 10:38 am

Also, did I detect a note of scorn and derision aimed at the Democrats?
Romney just may make a few more speeches, invest a few more million in himself and find himself out of a job and money.

I wonder what he would do, go on food stamps or starve?
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 11:32 am

9/23/2012



Alice..

The story I mentioned was a newspaper article

they were doing an investigation , I don't know any

moochers...Must get back to my latest new book.....

Cheers.Joe.........Very Happy
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 12:50 pm

It's hard to trust the newspapers even, these days.

Joe, do you ever just journal? It's a good way to clear the confusion and figure out how to deal with the media ping pong. Just choose your favorite way to write - your keyboard or a notebook with your fave pen or pencil. Put away the newspapers, magazines, and books; turn off the TV, and just get in touch with your own very good brain. Don't start with anything in mind, just let your fingers do the thinking and explore. Write out all the cr** without trying to sort it - just let it all flow. Don't stop to read or think about what you write - just let go.

Eventually, you will work out your frustration and see what it is you think about the stuff that's going on in the world "out there" by focusing on what is inside your own head.

I used to have a poster on the wall in my classroom:
How do I know
what I think
until I see
what I say


Come to think of it, I am going to do that same thing myself - right now - the world is in a weird place at the moment. Retreat is a good thing sometimes.

Annie
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 12:59 pm

When I administered Welfare and Vocational Rehabilitation programs, I had case managers who had to convince starving people and families to fill out the forms and get help. I was often called to help explain what has been stated many times here. There are many of us who at one time or another needed help from someone to overcome a challenge. Maybe it was a small bowl of chicken soup or as large as a financial loan. Many people, however, don't have anyone to provide that bowl of soup or that loan. That's why we live in a society that uses government structures to continue providing temporary help to those with no one in their corner.

I don't know any "self made man" myself. Most of the men that I know who became successful had a lot of help from their spouses, if only providing a soft landing at the end of the day to recharge for the next one, relieving the burdens of everyday challenges to free their minds to solve work issues.

Others without spouses had families that served the same purpose, or secretaries or nurses or assistants. Some women are pretty much self made, although some got their start from already successful spouses and some have a partner for their lives that helps them too.

Being born in the right house to right parents in the right neighborhood in the right economy makes it easier for many. It wasn't particular genius that made that happen; it was the accident of circumstance.

I believe that those of us who have had the breaks in life to move into a comfortable life style, even if very modest, can help someone else with a cup of soup or a loan by our taxes going into funds that are managed by those with knowledge to serve a person's needs such that they improve their life and can, in turn, give back.

Mostly, I knew very few "moochers" in my experience with government programs. There were, as in the white collar world, some downright thieves. There were criminals who took advantage of mentally disabled people in the Vocational Rehab area, pretending to be their advocate and stealing their checks. White collar crime has a whole legal system to help with coverups - and then a buddy helps even the convicted start over. and the amounts of money there and the numbers of persons harmed - beyond calculation.


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alice
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:19 pm

lol! lol! lol! Glen Beck--Sure hope he was self- made.
I wouldn't want any credit for making him.

As a recovering alcoholic and drug user he is a reformed sinner and is overzealous in the extreme.





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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptyMon Sep 24, 2012 12:47 am

Good post, DK.
Your experience in helping the less fortunate provided you with insights others will never have. Those who take advantage of the system are in the minority.
Only when one has "been there" can they truly understand.

In my book, I mentioned how it became necessary to apply for welfare. Returning from Beirut, flat broke, without a job, with a family to support, I had to turn somewhere. Fortunately I had family who provided a roof and food, however that can last only so long. Being self-sufficent meant finding my own way.
My Rags to Riches turned into Riches to Rags. I had nothing. No car, no home and no prospects for a job. When I did apply, I felt humiliated being treated as scum. The amount I received would provide food to eat, but not enough to put a roof over my head. My wife took a job in a clothing store as salesperson. What she earned was minimum, however that was deducted from the welfare check. In some ways, what she earned was self-defeating. The strong point was self-esteeme wanting no handouts.
Since I couldn't find work in my field, I took a job as a car salesman and had to bargain to get that job. Little by little, we began to rise above our poverty. We got a modest apartment. Furniture was donated by relatives. We placed mattresses on the floor to sleep. A cardboard table to eat from, etc. Finally got a car for $250. I could go on, but the point I'm trying to make is that a safety-net is needed. Just because some may abuse the system is no reason to take it away from those who require it.
It was a good experience. It makes me appreciate what I have today. It also gives me compassion for others struggling to survive who have no one to turn to.
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptyMon Sep 24, 2012 1:27 am

Addition to the previous post.

We received approx. $200 per month. That was before showing income receipts. We were issued food Stamps that applied to certain foods. Going through the check-out counter at the food store was another humiliation where the check-out clerk gave us the stare and those in line gave us a despicable look when we handed the clerk the Food Stamps.
My wife had a toothache and we were sent to a Dentist that handled people on welfare. He didn’t repair the tooth but yanked it out, breaking it off and leaving a part of the tooth in. That created much pain and caused an infection. It was finally rectified once we were able to pay for it ourselves.

Being poor is not just lack of money, but how one is treated. We are all humans with feelings and that is often overlooked. I can’t believe that Romney has a clue what it is like for the 47% he believes are parasites.
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PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptyMon Sep 24, 2012 6:51 am

Abe, I understand why we seem to have a kindred spirit in regard to these matters. I have had many "start overs" in life at all ages and circumstances. When I returned from Korea in the middle of a divorce, it was just my six year old son and me. My former spouse cut off all income sources for "bargaining purposes." We did have a roof. We had no furniture except in a storage locker of antiques and small items shipped from Korea. It included Korean floor beds that act as a mattress at night and fold into a very uncomfortable day sitting cushion near the floor. In Korea, they used one room as all rooms, and it had a heated, ondol floor, so those beds and seating were cozy. In my cold apartment, not quite so cozy.

I went to a very fundamentalist church for a while seeking understanding about how all my Cinderella forever dreams could have been shattered. One of the women there was pretty pushy. She came to my apartment and was appalled at how we lived. Actually, it worked for me and my son. The next day, she had twin beds delivered, one for me and one for my son. I never forgot her saying: When you sleep on the floor, positive thoughts have more trouble lifting you up.

When I ran the Welfare to Work program in Miami/Dade, we had 12 service delivery offices. They were abysmal with case workers one paycheck from needing the services themselves and not particularly careful about their appearance since they worked in such a dismal environment. The offices had ugly furniture and folding chairs in rows for people who took numbers. The walls had notices everywhere, stuck up with push pins. A smile was difficult to discern.

I found a grant that provided a small amount of money to update the offices. I had major meetings to infuse a sense of hope among the staff that they could make a difference in their environment and instill that same hope in the "customers." All offices were painted. We found used but comfortable furniture. We made appointments instead of people waiting forever and we started mailing checks to those with addresses - which encouraged some to get addresses. We made a cubicle for eating and drinking, only drinks allowed at desks. Staff members were encouraged to bring in a limited number of pretty, memento items that would be encouraging to them and the "customer."

I provided frames - the rule: if it's important enough for the wall, it's important enough to frame. We had the oddest collection of notices in frames.

I don't have any statistics about whether more people became employed and entered training as a result; I do know that the previous provider of services "lost" thousands of recipients and we managed to find them through incentives so they would go to work and not lose needed benefits. We did accomplish amazing things with our 15,000 "customers."

I put "customers" in parenthesis because I also implemented customer service training. Oh, we added a children's corner, too, with clean toys as best we could manage. One thing I know for certain, the people who came to our offices started to look better and smile more and were more prepared to enter the work place than the sad, disheveled bunch sitting in folding chairs waiting - forever.

Dignity is a very important quality in this life. Work and purpose contribute, but so does the respect with which we are treated. While our exterior appearance may look down and bedraggled when we are at our worst, a kind word and respect may just be the medicine that leads us to find more pride in all we do. I love to shop at Publix. They must have a super training program. Their clerks give the greatest smiles and friendly chatter that sends a customer out the door smiling also.
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Victor D. Lopez
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Registration date : 2012-02-01
Location : New York

A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A modest proposal for a new century . . .   A modest proposal for a new century . . . - Page 10 EmptyMon Sep 24, 2012 8:41 am

E. Don,

All taxes are not redistribution of wealth, nor be that throughout most of human history. Rather, they were and should be used (primarily) to pay for essential services like national defense, police, fire, etc. Many taxes are also used to specifically fund entitlements like social security, medicare and medicaid and these are also not at heart primarily redistribution schemes. And certainly taxes are never used for the extreme examples of redistribution of wealth to which I referred in my tongue in cheek example and which has occurred in China, the former Soviet Union, Cuba, etc. For that the government drops all pretense and simply uses confiscation to steal from the many to give to the one--the government--to redistribute however it sees fit (or not), or expropriation to seize businesses, assets, land, and anything else it wants while paying anything it deems reasonable. These schemes have failed so utterly miserable that they have been adopted in some form by many governments today, including most European nations and the U.S., albeit in an easier to digest form.

One need not oppose some reasonable redistribution of wealth through taxation; I certainly don't as I want truly needy people to be given a hand up. But there are many, many degrees of redistribution. When socialists from the extreme left are in power, nothing but confiscation of all wealth and property suffices to achieve social justice to their eyes. (Of course, in Communist utopias and Animal Farm, some people/animals are more equal than others).
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