Question for LC

Hypothetical: Suppose I had always wanted to write a book but never found the time because of the pressures of work and family commitments. Then I won the lottery, gave up my job and bought all the things I promised myself I would if I ever became rich. Suddenly, I had enough time to write and set about writing the long overdue story that was rattling around in my head.

When I tried to get the thing published, I learned a great deal about publishing but hit a brick wall as far as being published was concerned. What should I do? Polish the manuscript? Write a better query letter? Bribe an agent with vast amounts of money? Go on creative writing courses to learn how to write like everyone else?

As an extremely wealthy person, I am not motivated by money and my ego doesn't need massaging so I don't see commercial publishing as the great achievement it is made out to be. It's a job like any other job. So, if I self-published, money would not be a motivating factor.

Taking the above scenario into consideration, suppose I did not win the lottery but I had enough money to do the things I wanted to do and did not aspire to owning expensive homes, cars and milionaire toys such as yachts. Having travelled extensively around the world, I had no desire for expensive foreign holidays. Would anyone in such a position be motivated to make money out of writing books? Is it possible that there could be other motivating factors?

I am not LC. My answer is YES!

Not sure what the point of this question is. Sure, if you want to write a book, write a book. Doesn't matter what the motivation is. Just don't expect to see it in stores unless it's commercially published!

Why do you insist on deciding what should or should not be in stores? I buy less than 0.001% of all the goods that are on offer in supermarkets. I buy very little that is pre-packed. I buy fresh fruit and vegetables and staple diary products, fresh chicken, meat and fish. The stores are jammed packed full of things I do not buy. Should I tell the supermarkets to stop stocking low grade food because I have no use for it and would never buy it?

Bookstores only carry low-grade books?

I like that concept.

Keep it coming!

"Low grade food" is subjective. In the US, all food is subject to USDA standards and inspection. Otherwise we'd have antifreeze in the toothpaste and baby milk, like in China. That's low-grade food.

The Chinese just executed two men responsible for the baby milk, btw. That's their standards, but it's too little, too late.

LC,

Maybe we could execute low-grade book authors.

Yes it is subjective. Food that passes the USDA standards and inspection is not high grade food. It is uncontaminated food without banned additives. I never buy white bread but it is by far the most popular form of bread bought and sold in foodstores. I don't complain that my preferred choice is swamped by rows and rows of white, sliced bread.

What does bug me is when expensive items that I buy on a regular basis are sometimes not available -- when for sale on special offer, people who don't normally buy these items treat themselves and the shelves are bare.

What will/can we do?

It seems to me that commercial publishers, these days, are not looking for high-grade writing. They're looking for generic products that follow a predetermined format. The books may not win Pulitzers, but they appeal to a mass market - kind of like MacDonalds? Filled with trans-fats? White bread?

Ann

Ann,

Well said!

alj wrote:

It seems to me that commercial publishers, these days, are not looking for high-grade writing. They're looking for generic products that follow a predetermined format. The books may not win Pulitzers, but they appeal to a mass market - kind of like MacDonalds? Filled with trans-fats? White bread?

But if they've determined that that's what sells, then publishing anything else is unproductive! That's part of getting your proposal accepted, demonstrating that the market wants your stuff. Who cares if it's a literary masterpiece, if nobody wants to read it!

The bottom line is money. Publishers are in business to make money and selling books is the way they do it. Grocers are in business to make money and selling food is the way they do it. Both implement standards for what they think will sell. Not sure why this is anything to debate.

Quote :

Who cares if it's a literary masterpiece, if nobody wants to read it!

Me.

Ann

I had an excellent meeting with a savvy B&N Store manager today. She received the B & N catalog with Ghost Orchid in it and recognized the author as local; she ordered six copies for her store. She put them on a special table for local authors and Florida books. Two copies sold, just by virtue of their location, their affordability and the beautiful cover.

She said for store sales, location in the store is everything. The four remaining books were shelved in fiction/literature. She said they will never sell and will be returned unless there is sufficient promotion on my part to bring buyers to that particular store. Once shelved, dead without promotion. That applies to any book that does not have a specific, requesting, target market.

There are two hopes for the remaining four books: have them reclassified from literature/fiction to Florida regional. The shelf for Florida regional faces the coffee shop and draws the tourist crowd; Ghost Orchid's inspiration is a local event at Corkscrew Swamp, Naples. I will try getting the reclassification.

The second option for sales is the B & N book signing scheduled for February 6 at noon. That will only work with LOTS of pre-publicity and tying into Valentines to pull in buyers and catch store grazers. Grazers are only looking for bargains and what they came to buy and only get impulse caught by major advertising.

Bottom line: a book on the shelf will not be "found." It must be a target for a reader from publicity, promotion and possible store placement.

LC wrote:

Not sure why this is anything to debate.

The debate is about standards that you insist should be applied. They are not standards of excellence. In fact, they are not standards at all. Publishers have to produce books that appeal to the masses so that they can afford to publish quality books that break even at best. In that sense, the very best self-published books that produce a profit for an author are on a par with the very best books that break even for a publisher.

12/6/2009


The books being published today by publishers
especially if it's a " CELEBRITY !" They know that will
sell...If I were to write a book on Michael Jackson or
Marilyn Monroe , those are names that have a following.
And the books would sell by the thousands , Hmmmm,
gives me an idea....Hmmmmm

Cheers..Joe

dkchristi wrote:

She said for store sales, location in the store is everything. The four remaining books were shelved in fiction/literature. She said they will never sell and will be returned unless there is sufficient promotion on my part to bring buyers to that particular store. Once shelved, dead without promotion. That applies to any book that does not have a specific, requesting, target market.

Yes, location is important, which is why publishers pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to put books on those front tables right inside the door.
And yes, most of their shelved books need a target audience. So? If B/N never got that targeted audience, they'd never sell anything. Clearly they are selling books, so I'm not sure what the point is?

I'm a "targeted audience" when I go to B/N. Yesterday I went there seeking books on jewelry making. I went directly to that area and bought two (written by unknown jewelry makers). Other times I sought books on personal finance and went right to that area. I came out with books by Kiyosaki and Trump. You'll never see me in the religion, homeschooling or politics areas. But other people go there.

You'll also never see me checking obscure reviewer sites for recommendations, or aimlessly wandering Xlibris.

Shelagh wrote:

LC wrote:

Not sure why this is anything to debate.

The debate is about standards that you insist should be applied. They are not standards of excellence. In fact, they are not standards at all. Publishers have to produce books that appeal to the masses so that they can afford to publish quality books that break even at best. In that sense, the very best self-published books that produce a profit for an author are on a par with the very best books that break even for a publisher.

Shelagh, go read some stuff at Xlibris -lots of excerpts are posted there -then come back here and tell me no standards are applied at commercial houses.

My point regarding B&N is for authors who think just getting their books on the shelf is sufficient, it's not.

My point is also that name recognition and store location are key points to a book being found.

My point is that general fiction has tons of books; it helps to be classified more specifically.

And I'm too sleepy to add the rest of the points, but they are there for the gleaning for anyone for whom the info is useful and for those who don't need it, ignore it.

Water is wet.

Interesting hypothetical question. Yet, I have to say that if a person has talent and vision and can't find a way to write when s/he is poor, s/he is very unlikely to write after winning the lottery. Writing is something writers find time for, so I find it hard to believe that anyone who hasn't read and practiced and tried throughout their life is going to have much of anything to say if they suddenly become rich.

I don't quite understand the contention that commercial publishers have no standards. We'll stipulate that a lot of junk is published and that even much of the stuff that sells is popular for the worst kinds of reasons.

That said, why throw out the baby with the bath water? All the wonderful books that catch on with the public, become enduring classics, are taught in college courses, and win Pulitzer and other prestigious prizes come from commercial publishing. Can we not say that in spite of the stuff that isn't any good, a lot of literature is also being produced?

Getting into book stores may not have the meaning it once did, but the point is this: if a publisher's salesmen are talking stores into ordering the book and/or if the publisher is buying prominent shelf space, the odds are that the public will hear about the book, talk about it, and create a lot of buzz. The bookstore's shelf--in addition to actually moving the book--is symbolic of a publisher's clout behind the book. None of this ever happens when one goes to iUniverse or CreateSpace even if the book is just as good as the one on the store shelf.

Malcolm

There seem to be no literary standards.

Just because Palin is beautiful and well-known her garbage is welcomed with open arms.

Quote :

None of this ever happens when one goes to iUniverse or CreateSpace
even if the book is just as good as the one on the store shelf.

Malcolm

And many of them are just as good or even better.

Ann