IS IT OKAY FOR COMPANY TO FIRE EMPLOYEE OVER FLAG BUTTON ?

Amazon sent me a flag lapel pin I have it on my coat.
I invented a huge yellow happy face button. it says

PROUD TO HAVE PD ONLY THE BEST FOLKS GET IT!!


Now I need to get a job, wear my pins and whinge.
Sounds like fun to me.

A very good point right from the get go. Well said.

Abe F. March wrote:

I'm not sure if right or wrong fits here. If the person values his job he/she will conform to the standards they set. The workplace is not for political, religious or any cause other than performing the job. Refusal to obey an order, right or wrong, is cause for termination. If you disobeyed an order in the military you would be court-martialed.

Okay, If we really believe in freedom, how about this: Why can't Home Depot, which is a privately owned business decide what their employees shall wear to work?

If they wish them to wear tuxedos, why should I care?

I guess I don't care. as far as I am concerned they are free to make their rules, their employees are free to follow or not follow them. They can fire whoever they wish to fire.

I worked for years and saw many people fired for no good reason. The boss did not like the look on their face. That is all it took.

The employee, in my opinion, could have quit, if he felt so strongly about his rights.

E.Don,

How will he answer why he chose to disobey a direct order?

For those that feel that this person was treated wrongly, maybe writing a letter to the place of business expressing you're thoughts would be in order.

Another thought is, don't buy at that store again.

What the guy should have done is take the button off and pin it on the inside of his shirt, right in front of the person that asked him to remove it and then smile.

I wonder what the unemployment office will say about this termination if the person files for unemployment.

Reason for termination: Wearing a button with a flag on it.

The employment office will say he did not follow orders.

I doubt they will bring up the flag.

He has an attitude. I would not want to try to manage him.


This is a business--not kindergarten. Why would anyone assume that they are so special they can defy a company policy?


It is time people woke up and began thinking of others rights also.

A boss and a company deserve some respect.

I prefer that a company be customer oriented rather than employee oriented. If Home Depot has to spend their time babysitting employees, how does that help the customer?

A job that provides a living and health care should be cherished not squandered.

Check back with this employee 30 years from now--I doubt he will have done much. He is not exactly on the road to success.

A boss wants an employee who can be counted on to get the work done.

Maybe he should join the Army--they probably wouldn't even let him wear his button.

Seems simple to me. If you work for the man and take his paycheck you do what the man says. No ifs, ands or buts. He's the boss, you're not.
What you support doesn't enter into the picture. Doesn't matter a whit if it's an American flag or an Apache worry basket. You do that on your own time, but even then in a way that does not embarrass or reflect badly on the boss or company.
If you don't want to follow the rules, quit and look elsewhere for a job. Home Depot was right to fire him. I would have.

The thing is, Alice, that the amount and quality of the employee's work has never entered the picture. How do we know that he was a bad employee? Can we determine that simply because he refused to remove a pin from his apron?

There are times when a direct order given by a manager does not have to be followed. If it places the employee in peril, for instance, of if it violates one of what is called his "God given rights." Under our current labor laws there are certain things that an employer can't keep an employee from doing. Going to the bathroom is a good example of one of those things.

An employer, regardless of what so many think, can't simply fire a person for no reason. There must be just cause, and if it goes into a labor court, the employer will have to prove not only that there was just cause for dismissal, but that this is an across the board practice. If this law were not in place, we would be back in the days when an employer could fire a person for his religious beliefs or the color of his skin. I'm sure nobody wants to go back to those days.

How would we have felt about Home Depot had the story been a bit different. Instead of firing him because he wouldn't conform to a rather silly dress code, suppose they'd fired him because he was black. Can you imagine the uproar that would have caused? And the ensuing lawsuit would have been cheered on by most of the people here on this board.

If you can fire a person for the color of their shirt, surely is is all right to fire them for the color of their skin. If you can fire an employee for wearing a patrotic flag pin, then surely you can fire them for being jewish.

If you think that some of this is fine and some isn't, then perhaps you would agree that maybe some of the practices of employers need to be looked into.

E.Don,

I do not deal in what if's, neither does a court.

SURRRENDER! I have Dick on my side.

E.Don,

Here is a great idea. You hire yourself as his defense attorney--I will be the prosecuter--we will see who wins.

This is odd-- usually we are on the same side.

Great topic, Joe and thanks for coming back and discussing with me, All!

It's been fun.

I must have won!

?????

10/31/2009

Alice..

Where I used to work ( I won't give the name, they
are a large retail chain, very abusive towards their employees, no it's not Walmart) They knew I took heart pills twice a day and these pills make you, excuse me , pee a lot...Several times I would ask to have someone cover my area to go to the bathroom, I was told when I can find someone to cover, we'll that many times turned into 15 to twenty minutes ! When I reminded them this was against the law ! The next thing I knew I was in the Manager's office being written up ! After 1 1/2 years I got tired of the back stabbing, breaks when they felt like giving them to you, especially a lousy 30 min. break...I left, it was the best thing I did, it was affecting my health, making my my CPOD ( Chronic pulmonry Disorder worse,) I don't know how this company stays in business, their turn over for employees is huge ! Guess what their Corp. office doesn't care, as long as they see $$$$$$$$$$$

Cheers...Joe...

Joe,

You should have turned them in and sued. Employees are not to be refused bathroom privileges.

Your case is a bonified grievance. Go after them now--organize a class action suit.

They are abusive and illegal. Tell us who they are. I will not shop there.


Call the Department of Labor and Industries--You will win.

Be glad they have lots of money--you have the law on your side. The money will move rather quickly from their pocket to yours.

I would bet you won't even have to go to court.

Tell them you are writing a book about them.

My hopes with the recession are that perhaps things will go in a new direction, well, even in a slight way would be good. I see it happening locally, most recently with the financial advisor who holds our retirement funds moving to a smaller financial institution with a more personal touch. My son is changing his business insurance to a company with a more personal touch after being harassed by his former regarding getting reimbursement for tools lost in a fire in a building he was working on. Those are things we all need to do to make a difference, ever so slight.

We have always gone with the folks who answer their phones. Yesterday when our car broke down with six people, we called our friendly car repair dealer and they came and rescued our car in a timely fashion.

I'm not into the good-old days, just better new days would be a good idea.

Carol

Alice, you have to follow company rules, fair or unfair. As a Pinkerton I worked undercover at a plant manufacturing trucks. If someone left the line for even a minute, one truck would have passed his station. Only a supervisor could take a man's place on the line. The next time you're driving on a two-lane highway and a tractor-trailer rig is coming at you from the opposite direction, just hope no one on the line left his station for even that one minute.
I've never been on the side of management, but you have to be fair. All businesses must make money. If they don't, everyone is out on the street. Joe's condition was unfortunate, but the place where he worked was not right for him. Everyone is not suited for every job. You can't sue a company because you don't fit its requirements and you can't write a book about the company because of a personal problem.

Dick,

Tmes change. When were you with Pinkerton's? Was there a Department of Labor and Industries then?

Excuse me, Dick I was spouting WA State law.

Guess Joe should move to WA.

I worked in WA and the employers are pretty limited here.
They must give paid breaks and if the break is interrupted, the break begins again. Bathroom breaks are unlimited.

WA state is unfriendly to business and probably why businesses leave here.

You were right, I was wrong.

11/1/2009

Dick...

It's not that the job wasn't right for me, I've
been in retail for 30 years, I've worked at Macy's New York,
Lord & Taylor New York and ran a gallery downtown Santa Fe
for 10 years...This company I mentioned is one of the most
disgusting companies in retail I've ever come across and if I
told you their name and you looked up complaints against them
you would be shocked at all the complaints from every state they
have a store in , and these complaints come from Managers to
sales people, it just amazes me that a company doesn't give a
dam about it's employees, I've worked since I was 18 years old
and I have dealt with every kind of scum bag excuse my french
in my working career and dealt with it but this was one of the
worst I've seen. What would you call a company that hires 100
people to open a store then in less than three months lowers their
hours from 32 to 20 to 15 to 10 to get them to quit, so they can
save $$$$$$$$$$$, so the Manager looks good and the store looks
profitable ? I say low life...

Cheers..Joe..

That's what I mean, Joe. It was time to move on. There are some bad companies out there.

Must have been Sears

11/1/2009

Dick..

" Thank you." I believe there aren't any
more protections for the American worker, like it
use to be at least when I started working. Today
companies wield an iron fist and will tell you straight
forward " We have the $$$$ and We have the clout, so
don't ever think of going there !" That's why many
employees would rather give up and forget it and chalk
it up to life's experiences...

Cheers..Joe