IS IT OKAY FOR COMPANY TO FIRE EMPLOYEE OVER FLAG BUTTON ?

10/28/2009

Hi Everyone..

Just saw a news video on MSNBC News
a story about a young man who lives in Florida, working
for the Home Depot. He was wearing a button with the
American Flag on it with words on it , to support his brother
in the military , mind you he was wearing this button for a
year, now all of a sudden he was told to take it off, it's not
approved by Home Depot., he refused and after a week he
was fired... What is your opinion , who's right the young man
for what he believes in or Home Depot ?


Cheers...Joe..

I'm not sure if right or wrong fits here. If the person values his job he/she will conform to the standards they set. The workplace is not for political, religious or any cause other than performing the job. Refusal to obey an order, right or wrong, is cause for termination. If you disobeyed an order in the military you would be court-martialed.

Strange situation.
I am for people wearing what they want to wear.
However if the message was inflammatory--I can see where the company wouldn't want it at work.

The war is a hot button.

Our personal beliefs on any subject do not belong in the workplace.

Work is work!

There are no buttons large enough for me to display my personal beliefs.

AW PHOOEY!

The boss is the boss--you have to do what they want.

10/28/2009


Alice...

The words weren't inflammatory, here's what
was on the button:

" One Nation Under God, Indivisible "


Cheers..Joe..

Joe,

What if fellow workers, customers and the boss were atheists?

Being right is not always the goal of life.

Feeding yourself and family is more important.

I owned a mental health center and we had employees of many religions. When we would meet with our supervising psychologist which we were required to do per state license, he would ask where each client was "spiritually." If we hadn't asked, he would tell us to do so. But that meant, where they were, not where we were, what they believed in that kept them going in life, what they questioned, what they feared. The psychologist was Buddhist.

If someone wanted a counselor who was Christian, they were given to me. One time I got a seething letter from a counselor at a Christian counseling agency saying I was in no way a Christian counselor, that they had seen a client who told of my claims, but I did not open and close the sessions with prayers and did not promote Christian beliefs, so my claims for being a Christian counselor were false.

But before every session I ever had with a client I prayed, asking for God's guidance in giving me the words. We didn't pray together, but I did pray.

We did not have any symbols of religion or politics in our office. I can see a flag pin symbolizing patriotism, but with whatever words were there it might have also symbolized a political view that Home Depot neither promoted nor disapproved.

Carol

10/28/2009

All I'm saying is I don't know if he was right or
wrong , that's his judgement, me I always have
and always will beleive in freedom of speech, I'm
one who has a big mouth and probably be fired
for my beliefs, then again I was that way as a
teenager, one who believed in saying what he
believed in..

Cheers...Joe

Home Depot is not a church.

The person can wear his button to church, at home, picnics, anywhere, but to work.

If he wants a job.

Joe,

People with strong opinions who wish to express them freely often have their own businesses. That way they can call the shots.

This person needs to start their own business.

That way they can require that all workers wear the button.

What we as a nation should be questioning is not that they wanted him to take the button off, but why they felt that way. I started a thread a while ago about when is being PC taken too far, and this is a good example.

In my opinon, there should be no store allowed to operate in this country if they object to the wearing of a flag pin, or if they don't like the the words; "One nation, under God, indivisible."

I like Home Depot, but this isn't the first time something like this has come up with them. As far as I'm concerned, they can get along without my business from now on.

Just as they have the right to make such stupid requests of their employees, so do I have the right to not patronize their store any more. Lowes may be as bad, but that's where I'll go until I hear of something equally bad from them.

10/28/2009

Don..

I agree with you 1000 %.. Where I used to work before I retired because of my health, one Saturday
we could dress down ( this is a well known retail store all
over the country, let's just say their very abusive to their
employees !, that's one reason I got out.) I was wearing a
blue shirt with two small American Flags on the upper front
top of the shirt. One of the so-called assistnt managers
came over and said to me: " Why are you wearing that ?
Is that to prove your more American than I am !" I was livid,
she did this to see if I would start an argument, but I always
remembered something my step-father told me: " It takes
more of a man to walk away from a fight than to stay and
fight " One day I may write a book about this company and
their many abuses , let's just say in the first three months after they hired over a hundred employees, more than half
of them were gone, forced out by lowering their hours so the
manager could make his big bonus $$$$$$$$$$..


Cheers..Joe...

E.Don,

Why should the store not be allowed to operate?

If they put up the money, they should be able to set the standards.

There is no law that people must believe in God.

I do, You do, Joe does, others do not.

At the end of the day this employee has no job due to his insubodination.

I do like Lowe's. I got my washer fromn Home Depot though. The bottom line for me is price and service--not what the employees wear.

Alice, this country was formed with certain religious priniples in place, and for many years stores and other business' were proud of their standing in the community, and you could find flags and religious symbols in most of them, expecially on holidays.

Some stores got so worried that they might offend a few people that they took things too far in the other direction.

I still believe in the principles our country was founded on, and I think that the majority of Americans do too, but almost every business has become so afraid that they will offend one or two people that they have now become offensive to a lot of the rest of us. I still think that stores should have strong moral principles and should go back to the time when they tried to do all they could for their customers, instead of worrying about offending a few of them. I think they are afraid of a lawsuit, and that's a shame.

I've grown much more "American" in the last few years, since I've seen how much the country is going downhill by trying to please so many people from so many other countries. If someone wants to come here, live here, and work here, they should be willing to be Americans first, and put their own nationalities behind them.

I have a friend who's son is a professional wrestler. I've known the boy since he was 10 years old. He wrestled as one the "Wild Eyed Southern Boys" in the WWE, and he and his partner used a confederate flag as one of their ring props. A few years ago he signed one of the flags and sent it to me. I keep it hanging in my office, and don't think anything about it. In 2001 I had a small party for the folks that worked for me, and one of the girls came into my office and said I needed to take down the flag, because it offended her. I told her not to come into my office and she wouldn't be offended.

The point is that we have become so worried about offending people that we have lost most of our common sense. I think the guy at Home Depot probably had more against him than just the flag pin with the words, and might have deserved to be fired. However, if he was fired simply because of the pin, I think that was wrong. Sure they have the right to tell their employees what to wear, but firing him for a pin is taking it a bit to the extreme.

10/29/2009


Don....

" BRAVO ! "...


Cheers..Joe..... ....

I think it is the other way around. I think there are those who want us to fear that somehow "In God We Trust, One Nation Indivisible" will be taken away. I am tired of these fear mongers saying things we should all have embedded in our hearts with no need for words on pins.

Tonight we went to Quaker Steak and Lube for dinner to celebrate a couple of family birthdays. We sat by a wall where there was a giant mural of an eagle and the words, "Land of the free, and home of the brave." There were several plaques honoring the military, and also a big map of the United States made out of license plates. No one, and I mean no one, found that offensive. We all commented on it in fact. That honored our military and country.

I've gone to two military reunions with my husband this fall, and these men were filled with honor. They wore hats and shirts honoring their units. We visited the first helicopter squadron at Quantico that flies the President and I have never seen such patriotism as among those men and women. One man with us had flown Presidents Nixon and Johnson.

But Home Depot is a home store where people are buying windows and hammers, a place where people often wear uniforms to represent the place they work, where we're looking for deals on washing machines and dryers.

I don't think it was the flag button, but the issue behind the words and why this person insisted on wearing them. There is more to this story than we know.

Carol

Carol,
I agree with you. Conclusions are often drawn without possession of all the facts. The employee may have been a troublemaker and they wished to get rid of him. Defying an order was the excuse they needed - not the pin itself.

As I stated in my first post, the workplace is not for political, religious or any cause other than performing the job.

Sometimes co-workers are irritated by political or religious comments or the wearing of symbols that state their beliefs.
To some, it says I am more patriotic than you, or my religion is better than yours, or it can be used as an excuse for their actions.

A PC technician manager told me about a situation with one of his subordinates. He said: "Whenever he needs an excuse for something, he says, 'for a poor jewish boy like me, what can you expect?'" He replied: "Why do you always have to bring your religion into the conversation?" He went on to say that the guy was getting on his nerves and I suspected he would find an excuse to fire him.

Some people wear their religion around their neck and often their actions are contrary to the religion they espouse. Freedom of speech or expression should never detract from the performance of one's duties. We can't change the color of our skin and we don't need a symbol to depict that.

What about the this? Maybe Home Depot wants their employees uniformed.They don''t want them to wear a button of any kind?

This is in fact the case. They have no objection to the statement
--they don't allow buttons.

I can see that.
A motley crew with buttons spouting beliefs may not be their cup of tea.

It is a slippery slope. People take advantage. pretty soon there would be pro-choice buttons, pro-life pro-gay, anti gay... where would it end?

Better not to start it.

Eight hours is one-third of a day--leave the button home. Enjoy the money you make at your job. You can wear the button while you grocery shop, view a movie etc.

I hope he wears it job-hunting and explains how important it is to him.
It would be a clue as to how manageable he is.

I would not hire him. With so many people out of work to give up a job over a pin seems ridiculous to me.

Final thought:

I love this man! If only we had a few more like him.

Think of the ton of money he has saved us.
He can't draw unemployment because he was fired for cause.

He has left a job for someone else who desperately needed it.

Bless him.

I am glad I am not married to him--hope no one is.

AW PHOOEY--Can't even get anyone to argue with me.
I must be right when I am right!

You're right.


... but only part of the time.

Is this the wrong part of the time or the right part?

Just curious!

When you are wrong you are wrong and when you are right you are right. Works for me.

10/29/2009

If anyone wants the whole story and the true
story , connect to MSNBC to see the story, then
maybe we can get down to brass tacs as they say


Cheers..Joe

If the company contests he right to draw unemployment, the matter will come before an arbitrator. If the guy has enough sense he can win it. all he has to do is know how to answer the questions.

Remember that with the economy like it is, the government wants to pays folks their unemployment benefits, because for every person that gets denied those benefits, it means one more person that might be able to file for food stamps, welfare, rent assistance, etc. We're better off paying the unemployment benefits than we are adding more to the ever growing line of the have to be taken care of people.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/10/28/2009-10-28_home_depot_employee_trevor_keezor_fired_for_wearing_one_nation_under_god_pin_at_.html




Associated press account