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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10720
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

The Flag Empty
PostSubject: The Flag   The Flag EmptyTue Sep 26, 2017 12:31 am

The National Anthem has been the subject on FB since Trump’s condemnation of a Football player who chose to kneel during the playing of the National Anthem before a game.  He called him on live  TV, a sonofabitch, further declaring that the player should be fired.  There are photos have posted showing Trump standing with his hands hanging down at his side on more than one occasion while others had their hand over their heart during the playing of the National Anthem. Since Trump’s explosive statement, other players have knelt during the playing of the anthem while some chose to remain in the locker room until after the anthem was played.  I don’t know when the tradition to play the anthem before a game started, and I can see it appropriate at an international event like the Olympics where they honor the athlete by playing his/her country’s national anthem, however I can’t understand the reason for playing it at a national game.  In the military, we were taught to salute when in uniform during the playing of the national anthem and place our hand over our heart when wearing civilian clothes.  There is nothing written that a civilian should or must adhere to this gesture.  Although it is a sign of respect for the flag, is it a matter of choice.  One may notice that in church a person may choose to kneel to show respect for God or to stand during prayer, as directed by the pastor.  
One FB post was made by a person who said he was a retired Marine officer.  He said that he was appalled that anyone would show disrespect for the flag.  He mentioned the coffins returning from Iraq that were draped with the American flag and that this act showed disrespect for those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for their country.   I suspect that many bought into his BS.  He chose the wrong country to make that statement.  America invaded Iraq and the Iraqi soldiers were defending their country as is true with any country repelling an invasion.   Since there is no longer the draft, young people joining the service are volunteers.  Many enter the military to have a job.  The military offers food, shelter and clothing giving them the security many don’t have in civilian life.  They take a risk with the hope that they will not be engaged in battle, however they are trained in the art of killing.  An important part of this training is obedience.  One must obey orders given by their superior, without question.  I still remember and honor Muhammad Ali for the stand he took by refusing to enter the service to fight in Vietnam.   He was not a coward.  He didn’t want to kill people who did nothing to him and he was punished for the stand he took.  I respect anyone who refuses to engage in killing.  Refusing to obey an order that goes against your conscious is the right thing to do.  One may wind up being court marshalled, but they will be alive and have a clear conscious.  Dick Stodghill’s book is a good reference about engaging in battle and his thoughts on patriotism. 
Racism still exists.  How one chooses to demonstrate their feelings about injustice is a matter of choice their constutional right to do so.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh

Number of posts : 12624
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: The Flag   The Flag EmptyTue Sep 26, 2017 3:06 am

The NFL received money to play the national anthem to help recruitment to the armed forces. The players know this, but they pretend that the flag and anthem are not being used as military symbols. Of course they are! Children mimicking their sports heroes is the main problem. Soon, when children take a knee during the singing of the national anthem in the classroom, teachers will have some explaining to do.

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Abe F. March
Five Star Member
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Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10720
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: The Flag   The Flag EmptyTue Sep 26, 2017 4:58 am

I shared a post on FB concerning the amount the leagues receive from the government for military recruitment.  It all stinks.
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Malcolm
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Malcolm

Number of posts : 1504
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : Georgia

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PostSubject: Re: The Flag   The Flag EmptySun Oct 08, 2017 11:12 am

I respect the reason why the players are kneeling. My complaint about it is that league policy states that players will stand at attend facing the flag. The league has chosen not to enforce that policy, though I think some sports networks have stopped showing the players while the anthem is played.

I question the players' choice because on most jobs, employees are not allowed to make political statements while at work. These players are at work. Since many of them are well known, they have opportunities that most of us don't have to state their political concerns in other venues.

I don't agree with Trump's statement about firing the players because what the league does is not a federal matter. However, I note in passing that if the rest of us carried signs or made political statements at work--in areas where the public was present--we would be told to stop it if we wanted to keep working there.

My two cents.

Malcolm
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alice
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alice

Number of posts : 15672
Registration date : 2008-10-22
Age : 72
Location : Redmond, WA

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PostSubject: Re: The Flag   The Flag EmptyThu Nov 02, 2017 11:03 am

The flag is a symbol of freedom. No one should be forced to respect it.


Last edited by alice on Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10720
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: The Flag   The Flag EmptyFri Nov 03, 2017 1:26 am

Agree Alice.  You are old enough to remember when we as school childrren stood, recited the pledge of allegiance and recited the Lord's prayer.  We repeated words with little or no meaning to us.  Being forced to make a pledge for anything is not freedom of choice.  How many make marriage pledges that are easily broken? As adults we take more seriously what we say and do. Whether the pledge is to God, country or to life's partner is subject to change.   Rituals do not always speak the true feelings of the heart. Using rituals for promotiion should not be taken seriously.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh

Number of posts : 12624
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: The Flag   The Flag EmptySun Nov 05, 2017 9:25 am

A navy veteran turned down an award, expressing his freedom of speech, and was criticised. Surely if the players don't want to be criticised, they shouldn't be criticising others? Freedom of speech cuts both ways.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/11/03/saints-chastise-navy-veteran-for-sad-and-divisive-discourse-after-he-turned-down-an-award-because-of-kneeling-nfl-players/23266138/

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