Do you call this Opportunity?

Shelagh, you need to learn how to say "No," "Sorry, I can't at this time," or just "FOAD." Seriously. I presume running the forum is a hobby, and hobbies should be fun.

I don't understand the dismantling and admin thing; why it was done, what it accomplished. Not that it matters, but I think you may take comments about the forum too seriously. It's a nice place, people who want to use it will use it, people who don't, won't, and yes, folks come and go all the time and some make up excuses about why they leave just to be drama mamas. There's the good reason and the real reason for everything, not just forums.

I agree.

Look! This is ridiculous. This has nothing to do with who is smarter.

Who plays with guns? Who will point a finger or a stick at someone and say, "Bang, bang you are dead."

Just curious?

Shelagh wrote:

Yes, Carol, you have been loyal to the boards and to your friends here -- who would miss you enormously if you were no longer around. It's just that this is a virtual world. It only really exists in our minds. Some of the members here have set up a new forum to meet and discuss because they feel they cannot meet here to express their views and opinions. That doesn't make sense to me. It's like schoolkids saying that they will only speak to you in one part of the playground. But that is the way people behave on the 'net.

Not to beat a dead horse, but posts are not deleted on the other forum. That was my issue with this forum. I don't see a need to delete posts, but I have no control over that here on this forum and I accept that. That doesn't mean I like it.

Dick, I understand what you are saying (I think back on page 2!). If a woman is incapable of doing the job to a certain set of standards, I completely agree. If she can do the job to a certain set of standards, then I disagree.

And, of course, as we all have said, we would prefer not to have war at all.

merrihiatt wrote:

Shelagh wrote:

Yes, Carol, you have been loyal to the boards and to your friends here -- who would miss you enormously if you were no longer around. It's just that this is a virtual world. It only really exists in our minds. Some of the members here have set up a new forum to meet and discuss because they feel they cannot meet here to express their views and opinions. That doesn't make sense to me. It's like schoolkids saying that they will only speak to you in one part of the playground. But that is the way people behave on the 'net.

Not to beat a dead horse, but posts are not deleted on the other forum. That was my issue with this forum. I don't see a need to delete posts, but I have no control over that here on this forum and I accept that. That doesn't mean I like it.

Merri,

What is so terrible about deleting a post? I do not understand. I see a few today I could live without.

Hang around that other forum and you will see people deleted. Their posts may survive but they will not.

merrihiatt wrote:

Shelagh wrote:

Yes, Carol, you have been loyal to the boards and to your friends here -- who would miss you enormously if you were no longer around. It's just that this is a virtual world. It only really exists in our minds. Some of the members here have set up a new forum to meet and discuss because they feel they cannot meet here to express their views and opinions. That doesn't make sense to me. It's like schoolkids saying that they will only speak to you in one part of the playground. But that is the way people behave on the 'net.

Not to beat a dead horse, but posts are not deleted on the other forum. That was my issue with this forum. I don't see a need to delete posts, but I have no control over that here on this forum and I accept that. That doesn't mean I like it.

I think your administrator had quite a reputation for deleting posts on the Author Society forum.

Merri,

I disagreed with her in a private email and she told the entire forum I was mentally unstable and locked me out of even readng the forum for two weeks.

To this day there are people who probably think I am a raving lunatic. Oh well! Life goes on.

At least my doctors don' t agree with her..

Quote :

At least my doctors don' t agree with her..

Neither do we!

Ann

Thanks, Ann,

You are a true friend.

Alice is saner than most people.

Carol

Quote :

I think your administrator had quite a reputation for deleting posts on the Author Society forum.

I've never visited that site. If posts start getting deleted there, my feelings will be the same as they are here and I will stop being a moderator there.

What a confusing paragraph with all my here's and there's! Ha!

Alice wrote:

Merri,

I disagreed with her in a private email and she told the entire forum I was mentally unstable and locked me out of even readng the forum for two weeks.

To this day there are people who probably think I am a raving lunatic. Oh well! Life goes on.

At least my doctors don' t agree with her..

I'm sorry that happened to you, Alice. I find most of your posts humorous, thoughtful and full of heart.

Don,

You don't want us in combat, we are merely demonstrating our sharpshooting skills in interforum relationships.

Aye, aye SIR!

Now, there's an offer you couldn't refuse.

I have to agree with what Dick said right at the beginning of this most fascinating thread. Women + combat is a bad fit, and I am a woman who was at one time a trained killer.
When I joined the military, my first task was to learn to fight, and so I did. I learned to shoot (and did so much better than many of the men - we girls were far calmer about it I think), ate crap food, hauled rucksacks and gear that weighed 80 pounds for days at a time, slept on the ground, and so on.
Let me tell you, having it be "that time of the month" is not funny when you are sleeping in the armpit of Saskatchewan, the Northwest Territories or Manitoba. A real war zone would be frickin' awful.
I know women are involved in combat, train for it and some of them feel like they should be there. Realistically, could I have managed to spend 6 or 9 months in a war zone and had the physical and pshychological capacity to manage it? Sure. I was ready to go too, until I had my own kids...
If soldiers need to carry their gear, then it needs to be carried. I could not bear for a guy to have to carry part of my kit, and I also know that my 140 pound frame (at the time) could not carry a 180 man far or for long either. The expression "one man, one kit" is something I have passed along to my kids.
Women inherently do not have the same body strength and muscle mass as men, and there is no way to change that. Women are not as strong physically, period, and men are hardwired to protect them.
War is a horrible way to settle things, and is not necessary in light of the fact that we could talk through things, but the actions of North Korea today also confirm that there are times when talking is not going to be enough, and so the debate becomes moot.
The question is, who do you want standing next to you?

Any SAS officer, please. Thankee kindly, ma'am.

G.I Jane...she's a fox.

My friend's daughter signed up for the military to get through college. She didn't expect war. She didn't expect to be sent to Iraq for two long tours of duty. Her letters home were gut wrenching. In one she said she had to decide daily whether to obey her commanding officer or her God, and the officer won out. One thought was also clear: whatever made her a woman, a feminine sweet person, was wiped away to survive peeing down her leg through a tube and funnel sent by her mom, doing the other under a truck in the middle of the dessert with zero privacy, spending every waking and sleeping moment in the company of men as the only woman in the unit. She was a feminine girly girl before Iraq. After Iraq, well, she's a mature woman but her eyes - her eyes are dull.

My belief is that no one should be put in harms way to fight a politician's fight, man or woman; combat changes both.

As far as women being delicate; I beg to differ. The women who work the fields are as strong as any man, stronger. They drop their babies in the field and keep working. They haul the same sacks, cans, and racks as the men; they load the same trucks. Have you seen the stature of the men and women from the mountains of Guatamala? They are tiny in stature, both men and women; yet, they have the strength and stamina of the larger cultures.

I trained heavy equipment operators, females. They came from the Indian reservations. Indian women are often the breadwinners. They are the strength of todays' tribes. They had no trouble with heavy equipment the size of small houses. Ever seen women work a farm?

Many of the women I trained took the weight lifting course first. They didn't turn into men. Their muscular structure, however, was strengthened, and they probably looked even better in a bathing suit. You should have seen them in the tiny cab of those huge machines, proud, delicate, female women who were going to earn the paychecks they needed to support their families.

It's a myth that men are stronger than women. Yes, men have a genetic structure that builds muscle faster and larger; but their brawn jobs keep them in shape. Women who work out are every bit as strong as the average man. Training and talent make the difference, not gender.

My secretary worked until the day before she delivered her baby. A student had her baby and was back at school, with her baby nursing, the next day. Women can reduce the number of menstruation cycles. And women past child bearing age have a burst of stamina in menopause if they are healthy.

Keep the feminine qualities that tease men if so desired; keep the polite gestures that show women respect; but drop the old arguments about strength. They don't fly.

As far as men raping women, looking out for them on the battlefield differently - who's training these men? If a woman can be trained to murder, a man can be trained to honor his fellow soldiers equally, man or woman. Those who don't, they are the ones who have no business in the service of their county. There are bad people everywhere that need to be removed from their profession: teachers, preachers, priests, Little League coaches. Women put their life and health on the line of combat daily as firefighters and police officers. They complete and succeed at the same rigorous training. It's hard to let go of old beliefs; change is difficult.

My belief? No man or woman should be in combat to fight a politician's issues. War is barbaric, archaic and inhumane to the innocent. Wars should only be fought when everyone has a stake in the execution and the outcome. It is a travesty to me that from Viet Nam to the present day, our servicepeople have given their lives and futures while we at home led lives of ostentatious wealth and greed. Not me, perhaps; but I didn't suffer from war but rather from my own poor choices of a career of service rather than one that put me in the ostentatious greedy class. But for my poor choices, I would have been there watching the war on my plasma screen, in a hurry to leave in my Lexus for a shopping trip followed by a party on my yacht where we could talk about the war and change the subject if it became personal or distasteful.

There was a very serious human rights court challenge here several years ago. A woman wanted to be a fire fighter. Because of the difference in lung capacity in med vs women, one of the outcomes of the court case was that the requirements had to be changed; so now the woman is a firefighter, but does not have the same lung capacity as men on her team. Does that make her an adequate firefighter? Apparently. Is she as strong, physically, as the men? No. I agree that women can work up to be in great shape, but I disagree that they are naturally as strong as men. They aren't.

I think the point that we shouldn't have wars is a moot point. Of course we shouldn't. Of course it's barbaric. Trouble is that it is, and always has been, around, and sadly doesn't look like it will end in our lifetimes.

It's unfortunate that happened DK, that your friend's daughter signed up to get through college and ended up in a war. It's the very real risk of being part of the military today and always. I suspect it will drive more toward the student loan system than the military route to a degree in the near future.

I am not a soldier, and I doubt that I would ever have been. That's one of the reasons I admire them so. I do believe that I could do it, were I called upon, that I could defend my home and family, or that I could have when I was younger. None of us really know until we are put to the task. I wouldn't have sought it out, but I like to think I could have managed it. I think there are a few women who are capable of being soldiers, although I don't know why they would want to. A part of me says it is not OK to sit at home and send our husbands and sons out to do the hard work or war, if it is forced upon us. I don't think it is about size. I apologize for bringing up Audie Murphy again. He was only one of so very very many brave young men who have fought in our wars, but I must remind that he was 5'6" tall, and weighed in at about 125 when he went into battle for the first time and about 18 years old. Col. Harold Simpson, in his biography, American Soldier,tells how, while climbing the mountains in southern Italy, he would often carry the packs of weaker soldiers.

I admire all warriors. It takes much courage to face down an enemy who will kill you if he (or she) can.

I would like to end this Memorial Day saying "Thank you" to everyone who has done so.

Ann

Sometimes job requirements that favor males are not defined correctly. When a job is analyzed, some qualifications have higher priorities than others and some things may be done eqally well in a different way. When I took sailing lessons for females (Womansail), I learned to double wench, use headphones instead of shout when anchoring and use double safety lines on the bosun's chair among other little tricks to use my less strong body in more intelligent ways to accomplish what men do by brawn alone. Actually, what I learned was much safer and less stressful. I already had a keener sense of hearing and smell than my spouse or three sons, saving us from several disasters at sea. I seemed to have a better capacity to focus on landmarks and use sailing guides than the men who chose to "eyeball" it with more approximations than my exact navigation. Living aboard on a 67 foot ketch-rigged yacht with three teenage sons and a spouse 15 years older than me was quite a lesson in male superiority at sea - until "Womansail."

As this Memorial Day draws to a close, I am grateful to the men and women who stepped up to serve their country. I know that both genders pose some issues that the learning curve has not yet resolved; but military service is still a profession that will call to both men and women. If so, I believe they should have equal opportunity to train for their profession and to progress in their career.