Do you call this Opportunity?

dkchristi wrote:

My original point, Nutter, was passed over: war is heinous, barbaric and archaic. You are right, no man or woman should be facing death while politicians make decisions. Politics today should have reached a level of sophistication where the distribution of resources, the end of hunger, and tolerence for differences make war a thing of the past: we honor those who have served and led the way to a more humane way of settling differences.

"Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me."

DK,
I'm in complete agreement.
I think the subject of jobs got this thing off track. Equal opportunity should exist. Equal capability is another matter, and I think that's what Don was referencing. Intelligence capability and physical capability will not always be the same for either sex.

I often see women trying hard to be like men, but I rarely see men trying to be like women. There are some that act feminine without trying, but that is another matter.

Abe F. March wrote:

I often see women trying hard to be like men, but I rarely see men trying to be like women.

I lurk on a popular men's message board. It's full of men acting like women. Citing feminism and equal rights/pay, they don't want to pay for dates, open doors, initiate contact, anything, really. They feel chivalry is outdated, medieval-origined and no longer relevant today. Maybe they're right?

I agree with Merri that opening doors is a courtesy thing, and I hold doors open for both men and women.

What I think of women in combat?

Go into an area of town you would not drive through during the day at 3:00 am without any weapons. Attack three 200 pound very strange looking men...if you can walk away alive...go join the army.

LC wrote:

Abe F. March wrote:

I often see women trying hard to be like men, but I rarely see men trying to be like women.

I lurk on a popular men's message board. It's full of men acting like women. Citing feminism and equal rights/pay, they don't want to pay for dates, open doors, initiate contact, anything, really. They feel chivalry is outmoded, a medieval thing (literally) and there's no place for it anymore. Maybe they're right?

I agree with Merri that opening doors is a courtesy thing, and I hold doors open for both men and women.

I think what it all boils down to is this: If we could all learn to approach all people with the respect, tolerance, equality, and love that each individual deserves we would find ourselves in a much better place. I heard this years ago and thought I would through it in. (God did not make woman from a mans head to be above him, or from his feet to be beneath him, but from his side to be equal to him.)

One female member said:

For what it's worth, men can be raped.

Let me tell you female members something you may not know...WE WON'T TELL.

Abe F. March wrote:

I often see women trying hard to be like men, but I rarely see men trying to be like women.

We are talking about different qualities here, jobs versus personal characteristics.

My son-in-law was a nurse. Some will say he was a "male nurse" which I consider unnecessary because we never say "female nurse." Now he is a doctor, more acceptable for a man, but joined by many women in this profession today.

Carol

It's fine to say there should be no war. Who can disagree? But there are wars. The possibility of another major war involving large nations exists.

It's fine to say women are as intelligent as men and frequently more so. Few people doubt that.

It's fine to talk about oppotunity for advancement in the military. It's a job and many people want a chance to move up.

It's fine to say a woman could fire a weapon as effectively as a man, but that's a small segment of the job.

Here's a major issue that isn't fine, one touched on briefly in the original post. Infantry combat in a major war requires not merely physical strength from working out in a gym but the ability to carry on week after endless week with heavy loads on your back. If you falter, someone already burdened with their own heavy load must carry yours.
Today an infantrman carries 135 pounds. How many 125 or 150 pound women could do it over an extended period of time? It's not their fault, it's just the way it is.

It's about physical strength over the long haul. Do women compete in the same track and field events with men? Of course not. Do they play in the NFL or NBA? Of course not. That doesn't mean they are weaker, it means they are smaller. Keep in mind that a game lasting a couple of hours is an afternoon tea party compared to war in the infantry.

If you have never been in infantry combat you have no idea how exhausting it can be. The female body is not designed for it. Support roles, fine. The infantry, no.

A. W. Nutter wrote:

(God did not make woman from a mans head to be
above him, or from his feet to be beneath him, but from his side to be
equal to him.)

The story in the bible about Adam and Eve is just a story. An unfertilized female egg carries an X chromosome. A male sperm adds an X (girl) or a Y (boy) chromosome. In other words, if sperm did not carry any Y chromosomes, all babies would be girls (XX).

I suppose the Y chromosome gives men (XY) the extra physical strength lacking in women. Nature needed something stronger and added a Y. Why not?

Some men have different views of women:

Cowboy: They don’t go BAAA like the sheep when you poke em.

Senator: Who was the stupid ass who said, ‘give them the vote.’ Did he not know there are more of them then us?

The Pope: “It says right here in the bible, ‘A silence fell in heaven‘… proof there are no women there.

Archeologist: Women are not equal to men. These bones prove Eve was taken from a rib cut, not a prime cut.

A horn dog on a Saturday night just before the bars close: You are beautiful baby.

A male member of a forum owned by a women: Why am I banned?

I don't ban members. They leave of their own accord. All the members here (including me) are here for their own benefit. That's the bottom line. When they no longer feel that there is any benefit in staying around, they leave. Some leave before making a single post. Some leave after making over a thousand posts. People say one thing and do another. The one thing that is consistent, however, is the fact that, on the 'net, everyone pleases him/herself. There is no loyalty. Just excuses for no longer being around.

There were women who fought in the Civil War. They dressed as men and kept their sexuality secret, or tried to.

There was a female Pope. The Catholic Church doesn't want this widely known.

But I also listen to Dick. He was there in combat and he knows.

Carol

Shelagh wrote:

I don't ban members. They leave of their own accord. All the members here (including me) are here for their own benefit. That's the bottom line. When they no longer feel that there is any benefit in staying around, they leave. Some leave before making a single post. Some leave after making over a thousand posts. People say one thing and do another. The one thing that is consistent, however, is the fact that, on the 'net, everyone pleases him/herself. There is no loyalty. Just excuses for no longer being around.

Shelagh, I disagree with there being no loyalty. I have tried to be loyal, and have offered assistance on this board and through messages to you. Sometimes things just aren't understood the way they come across. I appreciate your assistance and have tried to tell you so, but perhaps have not put the words together so they sound as intended.

Most of us here left the PA board. Were we missed? That is not something I think of often, because the answer is probably "no," but I did miss people who left and who have left here.

Carol

Shelagh, I often think women are to hung up on being equal with men. Both have their strong and weak points.
It is a proven fact: Women in a leading role, are not happy.
It is also true, very few men know how to be a man...many think it's a job of being a boss.
From what I have read of your post...it seems you don't believe in the bible, and that's okay. For those of us who do, here is what the God of the bible says:

"Women, be in subjection to your husbands." "Husbands, love your wife as yourself."
"Women are a help-mate."(that is a side by side position.)

Our present system of things, makes having a normal relationship almost impossible. The present laws make divorce a simple matter...relieving people from working through problems.
It is a bad state of affairs. It has broken families apart. Making for single parents. Children become victims, and we can see the sad state we are in.
The past treatment of women has been the fault of men...not understanding how to be a man. If I had been a women in the past, I would have revolted by force if need be.
Fixing the problem between men and women, has to start with men learning, and applying their role as men.

Yes, Carol, you have been loyal to the boards and to your friends here -- who would miss you enormously if you were no longer around. It's just that this is a virtual world. It only really exists in our minds. Some of the members here have set up a new forum to meet and discuss because they feel they cannot meet here to express their views and opinions. That doesn't make sense to me. It's like schoolkids saying that they will only speak to you in one part of the playground. But that is the way people behave on the 'net.

Domenic,

I neither believe nor disbelieve in the bible. The stories in the bible are stories written by men, not by God. These stories mean a great deal to some Christians, especially those who choose to believe everything they read. I don't have a problem with this. If something brings comfort, gives people a sense of direction and hope and makes their life better than it would be without the teachings of the bible, then I'm all for it. I just don't believe the world was created in seven days and seven nights ...

I have a forum on my web-site. I don't use it. It came with the program. As to this forum being nothing but a virtual word, I don't agree. The members are real people. True, they may say things on here they would never say face to face...
I was a member of a teachers forum for about a year. I wanted to learn the thinking of teachers for a story. The members of that forum meet once or twice a year. It would be hard for our members to meet since we are countries apart...but, those in the same country could. I would like to meet many of the members on here...they are real people.

Shelagh wrote:

Domenic,

I neither believe nor disbelieve in the bible. The stories in the bible are stories written by men, not by God. These stories mean a great deal to some Christians, especially those who choose to believe everything they read. I don't have a problem with this. If something brings comfort, gives people a sense of direction and hope and makes their life better than it would be without the teachings of the bible, then I'm all for it. I just don't believe the world was created in seven days and seven nights ...

The bible says God created the things on the earth in seven days, not the earth. It could have taken billions of years to create the earth.
I have made a life study of the bible. I believe only what I can prove. The bible does not give me comfort. It turns ones world upside-down. I believe in science. Together( the bible & science) make a very different tale.
Clay of the Gods is written as fiction, but, everything within it, can be proven with the aid of science. I don't like what I can prove...the fairy tale religious leaders offer, gave me comfort.

As to women in combat: Combat fucks up a mans head for the rest of his life...women being different, what would it do to them?
I know one that was in a USO event in Nam. They got fired on. A marine threw himself across her, and he was killed...to this day she is still fucked up...she feels she killed the guy.

domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Shelagh wrote:

Domenic,

I neither believe nor disbelieve in the bible. The stories in the bible are stories written by men, not by God. These stories mean a great deal to some Christians, especially those who choose to believe everything they read. I don't have a problem with this. If something brings comfort, gives people a sense of direction and hope and makes their life better than it would be without the teachings of the bible, then I'm all for it. I just don't believe the world was created in seven days and seven nights ...

The bible says God created the things on the earth in seven days, not the earth. It could have taken billions of years to create the earth.
I have made a life study of the bible. I believe only what I can prove. The bible does not give me comfort. It turns ones world upside-down. I believe in science. Together( the bible & science) make a very different tale.
Clay of the Gods is written as fiction, but, everything within it, can be proven with the aid of science. I don't like what I can prove...the fairy tale religious leaders offer, gave me comfort.

Personally, I tend to consider myself to be more of a man of science than of religion. It can be argued that faith is good, but I think faith backed by varifiable scientific evidence is much stronger than blind belief. My personal beliefs and philosophies are very much influnced by quantium mechanics and relativity.

Shelagh,

I feel that you are feeling down and seeing things negatively.

Don't throw us all on the reject pile though.

We are all different people.

I agree Gordon, blind faith is stupid. There are two skulls( one is a Neanderthal, the other an animal.) Both have bullet holes. These are in the Moscow and London Museums. These skulls are 40,000 and 100,000 years old. The 100,000 year old skull has calcification, which means it did not die when shot(100,000years ago.). The bone started to re-grow. What does that do to the bible? Put the two together, and you have a very different story.

Even in my youth, I would not have been able to carry a wounded soldier out of harm's way, and I was physically active and fit at the time. Today, I realize that there are many support positions that I could have filled and would gladly have done, if the opportunity had been there.

zadaconnaway wrote:

Even in my youth, I would not have been able to carry a wounded soldier out of harm's way, and I was physically active and fit at the time. Today, I realize that there are many support positions that I could have filled and would gladly have done, if the opportunity had been there.

I don't think it's fair, though, to assign women the safer support positions and give the men all the dangerous ones, in the name of giving women opportunity. That's borderline favoritism, not opportunity.

Alice wrote:

Shelagh,

I feel that you are feeling down and seeing things negatively.

Don't throw us all on the reject pile though.

W e are all different people.

Dearest Alice,

I am not down. I am a realist. I deal with literally hundreds of people from all over the world on a regular basis. I receive all kinds of requests on the network. Recently, a member asked for an analysis of an event in a Dean Koontz novel. When I responded, my reply was seen as insufficient and I was asked to give a more detailed account! This is just one example of the many strange requests I receive.

Another member of the network asked me what I thought about the network and did I think it was any good. I wrote back and said it was brilliant because I'd set it up. He wrote back and said, "LOL! They all say that!"

I am regularly asked about how Featured Members are chosen for the forum but those who ask do not stick around to make 200 posts. They want me to set up a page for them with no effort on their part.

The only reason I am explaining about the forum/network/groups is because Domenic asked. I accept things the way they are. I don't see the world through rose tinted glasses; I'm not that daft.