Afghanistan

Afghanistan is a no-win situation with our current tactics. The British and the Russians tried to conquer Afghanistan and couldn’t, what makes us think we can? And who are the Taliban?

When the Soviet Union was fighting in Afghanistan, America provided schooling for the Afghani people to fight against the Soviet invasion. Taliban simply means students, and that name was given to those being schooled by the Americans.

In our rush to a quick fix, we fail to understand the mentality of the people. They believe in “an eye for an eye.” Many families have 50 members, and when a member is killed, they must seek revenge. When we kill innocent civilians, we call that “collateral damage.” That damage is worse than the attempt to kill the so-called enemy. The people seeking revenge turn to Al Qaeida.
That’s another group of people formerly trained by the US in the fight
against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Al Qaeida was the name of the training camp used in the fight against the Soviets, and the name stayed. The notoriety of Al Qaeida grew, and their purpose evolved into an organization to carry out revenge, and they have many adherents.

One goal of the Bush administration was to bring democracy to the Afghan people. They don’t even know what it means. 80% of the Afghan people are illiterate. Elections are now coming up soon in Afghanistan and that was viewed as progress toward democracy. What a farce. They will vote the way they are told to vote by those who are literate.

If we want to stop the need for retaliation, we would be wise to spend our money on building schools instead of guns. We need to eliminate the need for revenge and in so doing save the lives of both the Afghanis and our servicemen.

We live in a new world. The old days of the conquerors are gone. Keeping people in subjugation and poverty doesn’t work. Look at Israel/Palestine. The “eye for an eye” philosophy continues. When one has nothing more to lose, one fights. And, if one is not capable of doing the fighting, they seek help from someone who can.

Violence begets violence. Retaliation will continue so long as we continue to follow the same old mindset. Fortunately, there is a breath of fresh air with President Obama saying that he is willing to listen. Education is not only for the illiterate but by those in power whose ignorance proliferates violence.

I just finished reading The Post American World by Fareed Zakaria. It is about how we need to realize the importance of other countries in the world, their cultures, ways of living, hopes and fears. We need to sit down and get to know these people.

It is like when we took our kids to Europe and my son told me why we took him there. He said, "To see how many ways there are to live in this world." I was hoping he'd figure that out.

Good post, Abe. I agree.

Carol

I agree too. Very well said. Now some people are complaining because the French and Germans don't want to play a more active role in Afghanistan. The French and Germans know a helluva lot more about war than most Americans. And about the futility of trying to force your way of life onto someone else.

Well, like-minded people find each other; but there is an entire other cadre who believes very differently in the U.S. prerogative to take our culture everywhere. I remember when the U.S. government couldn't find anyone who spoke the languages of the countries for which we needed intelligence.

Language is a strong indicator of culture and values. If a person wants to know how people think, learning the language is one useful tool.

I have a strong leaning toward the value of diversity and toward helping people in need achieve their best opportunity for quality lives. That seems a simple philosophy. One of my best friends of years won't talk to me about "politics" because she is of the one culture (ours); one way (ours) and one people (us) point of view. She is quite educated, well-read and intelligent.

Intelligent people gather the resources to support their position even if it is diametrically opposed to the position of others pulling together similar information from other resources and drawing opposite conclusions.

I agree Dk. Language is important to understand people and their culture. There are many words that simply cannot be properly translated without losing the meaning.

I mentioned this some time ago, but will repeat it since it has to do with language and the ignorance of some people.
There was a live TV broadcast where they were interviewing people in Florida about having Spanish in schools. One lady was asked her opinion, and with hands on her hips, proclaimed, "If English was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for everyone else."

They live among us.

And then once we learn those other languages, we have to be brave enough to use them and not worry about being perfect.

I know German but am afraid to use it thinking I won't get it right. So instead, I depend on others' English and that isn't very nice. Abe knows what I am talking about.

Last time we were in Europe, after shying away from German when visited Abe and Gisela, my husband's cousin and I had a conversation in German. She neither burst out laughing or corrected me, and we both understood each other. Amazing!

I think I'll try that again. Abe is great at speaking German.

Carol

Carol,
You got the problem right. Being afraid of making a mistake means many won't even try. We learn by doing. The best situation is when you are placed in a group that doesn't understand any English and you have no one to turn to for help. You will be amazed how much you learn that way. You must begin to think in the language. If you constantly try to translate what you wish to say, you'll always have difficulty. That's where being immersed in the language helps. And, people don't laugh or criticize you for making mistakes. They are impressed that you are trying and help you say what you wish to say.
Being able to communicate is the important thing. The grammar can come later when/if you feel it necessary.

My husband and I have been thinking about other travels after having had such a good time on our most recent. He spent a great deal of time this morning booking hotels for various military reunions in the fall.

And I said, "Remember our friends who have an apartment in Dusseldorf they said we could use? Remember we have free airfare and how we always wanted to stay somewhere for an extended time to use the language?"

And thinking in the language is important. It amazes me that after being in Germany for a few days, suddenly I hear people speaking and know what they have said. (Answering is a bit more difficult.)

Abe, I know you spoke German to make friends, to belong to organizations in the town you live in and beyond. That is the other factor that is so important, important for those coming to the US to become proficient in English, and important for those going to other countries, even for a visit.

Carol

Thank you, Abe, for confirming my belief about the ignorance that abounds!

Abe, have you seen the film, Charlie Wilson's War? It explores the relationship between the US and Afghanistan during the war with the USSR. It seems accurate, but I'm not all that up on the history. I would love to hear an opinion from someone who would know more about it.

I mostly got caught up in the movie because about 20 minutes in, I realized that I actually knew that Charlie Wilson personally. He was my congressman. And I met and spoke with him on several occasions. He came to Orange frequently, and Bill and I often "frequented" the same bars he did. We got into some deep discussions over drinks. I had no idea at the time how involved he was with the Afghans. Apparently, nobody did, or hardly anybody, anyway.

Ann

I think one of the most important parts of the movie was the end, where Charlie wanted to build a school and couldn't get support to do so. We get all caught up with "winning" and forget about what happens after we've "won" in our eyes, not necessarily in the eyes of those of the people of the country. There is so much spoken regarding the surge in Iraq, how successful sending in more troops was, but that, in my opinion, was not what turned things around. It was the non-military parts that turned things around, meeting with leaders on their level. General Toni Zinni in The Battle for Peace speaks about how it isn't just military victory that is important, but somehow establishing ongoing peace and well being, and that is done in ways beyond just pulling out the troops.

Carol

11/24/2009

Today I read that some " NUT " Congressman
wants to add another tax " WAR TAX " to pay for
the war starts at 1% to 5% , I think enough is enough !
We're taxed to death as it is , I say stop the war and
bring our guys and girls home, enough body counts..

Cheers..Joe

Carol, I agree about the ending of that movie. Things might have been very different if we had given them support for education and other humanitarian projects.

Ann

Just imagine what Afghanistan would be like today if just half, or even one third of the money spent on the military had been spent on education/schools.
Fulfilling the basic needs: food, shelter & clothing is possible without simple handouts. Providing jobs to build schools, roads and housing gives self-esteem. People who are illiterate and ignorant are susceptible to any promise of reward. Many are used by extremists - religious fundamentalists to kill. And if something should happen to them, they will have their reward in Paradise. They promise to take care of their families, etc.

Winning battles does not mean one can win the war. When the war is waged against poverty and illiteracy, there is a change for peace.

Ann, no I did not see the film.

You'd like that movie, Abe.

Carol

It is not shown at the cinemas here. Unless or until it is translated in German, I will have to wait for it to be available on CD.

It should be by now, Abe. You might want to check it out, with your interest and knowledge of the situation. Tom Hanks plays Wilson, if that helps you find it.

Ann

It was in theaters a couple of years ago, so it should be out in DVD.

Carol

DVD. Hmmmm. My use of correct terms is lacking.
I'll check on it.

CD, DVD, I don't always get these things right. I just know if I say the wrong one my husband, the technology guru,corrects me.

Carol

CD -- compact disc (music)
DVD -- digital video disc (video)

They both look like this:

Thanks Shelagh. They do look alike and without thinking (that happens frequently) I say what pops into my head.

Abe, this trailer will give you an idea of the film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgx5WkwSJzU

I first saw it last year on mu pay-per-view cable channel. You should be able to find it.

Tom Hanks does a good job of playing Charlie.

I remember one night, mentioning to him that my mother grew up in his home county (Trinity), but from a community, Helmic, so small that he had probably never heard of it. "Helmic?" he replied, "He** yeah. I carried Helmic last election," he continued, "fifteen to one - that was fifteen votes to one vote. I never did learn who the s**-of-a-b**** was who voted against me." "Well," I replied, "I'm afraid I can guarantee we were related." "Well don't pay it no mind." he grinned.

Ann

We forgot to mention Julia Roberts along with other gorgeous women were in this film.

Carol