Conservative and Liberal

Joe, did you read either or both the articles you recommended?

Then it goes back to campaigning.  Our country is in its stalemate and negativity due to campaigns which can be corrected - and without a lot of trouble.  It's just that those already in power will do everything possible to make sure the current system keeps them in power. 

You know, when a company is in trouble and brings in a new CEO, the first thing done is to clean house.  I remember in a school district where all non-union people had to "interview" for our jobs again which I thought was ridiculous in order to be cleared by the new administration.

Campaign rules need to be changed and then all representatives and Senators have to run for office under the new rules.

It would be nice if Congress members would  quit campaigning and simply do their jobs.
Their job is to look out for the good of the country.

Nancy Pelosi said it best when asked about reelection said,
" Reelection is not our concern, we have a job to do and we are doing it."

When Former President Reagan was shot he looked at the ER workers and quipped.
"I sure hope you are all Republicans."

"For now, Mr. President,  Rest assured we are all Republicans."    Came back the comforting answer.

We need to see a bit of this now.

Just a little dab would do it.

8/30/2013

                        Yes, they need to work, not campaign ! It should be limited to
                        3 months close to the elections. They must do their job or face the
                        severe consequences of loosing their jobs and yes maybe their benefits!

                                                        Cheers..Joe...

Alice, I love that quote!  It would be good to remember.  Thanks!  It's also important to remember that at a terrible time we had a President who still pulled from his sense of humor to ease the stress.  We all need to laugh more and gripe less, do more and blame less.

I did try to go to a political gathering to put in my two cents but it was so much party bs that I didn't want to be part of it.  No one was answering questions with real answers or how they really felt, it was all scripted.  I might get more politically active so I follow my talk...I didn't want to take the time from writing but someone has to take the time that isn't a slave to propaganda.  Trouble is, once you get involved, you have to get on the train or be left at the station.

DK.  It is frustrating.  To do or not to do.  To become involved or not. 
Do what your gut tells you.

I'm not much on labels. I think most of us fall somewhere in the middle anyway. I'm pretty sure common sense tells us that there are some conservative things we like and some liberal things we like. I wish we could elect a person to the White House that would go back to doing what's best for all of the American people, and not just the ones who donate the most and have the biggest and best lobbiests. I honestly believe that what is good for working people and the middle class is what is best for the country. Unfortunately, since Reagan all of the Presidents have been doing what is best for corporate America, and that means the rest of us have to pay for it all, and suffer through the mistakes while the wealthy just go their merry way, making more and more money every year.

I don't expect our elected officials to do what is best for "all the American people."  There is not a single "best" for three-hundred-and-some-odd individuals.  Besides, that is only the number of US citizens, and ignores the rest of America, north and south.  We have no control over the rest of America, nor should we.

I would hope that they each do what they believe in their hearts is the right thing to do.  Right - not expedient.  Not playing puppets to those who would control the world through controlling the economy and protecting their wealth and power.

I listen to the words of Barack Obama.  I listen to the tone of his voice, I watch his body language, and whenever possible, I look closely into the images of his eyes.

He is not a god, and so, is not a perfect person.  Can any of us claim to be?  I liked him enough to vote for him.  He has not disappointed me.  I trust that he will study all of the information available to him, and will make his choices based on what he sees to be the right action for the circumstances.

There was a time when we, the people, trusted our elected officials to do what was best, based on their perspectives.  We all share in the responsibility for the actions of those we give our votes.  How can we, in good conscience, deny our responsibility in the decisions they make?  We seem to be a generation of individuals, each crying out, "It's not my fault," while we project our denied common guilt onto the people we put in office to do the job of governing.

Just me

alj,  Good post!

I agree. We have what we allowed to happen.  I looked for someone to blame and the answer was me.

8/30/2013

                    As an American Citizen I have come to a major decision, I don't trust
                    any Congressmen, Senators or Presidents , why, they're liers. So as
                    of today I have taken an oath never, ever to vote again....

                                                Cheers..Joe..

Joe, in other countries, people die attempting to vote.  In this country people lost their lives attempting to gain voting rights.  Use your voting right but find out about the people for whom you are voting.  Not voting is voting.  You are allowing someone else to make your choices for you.  I strongly recommend that you think this through to where you can be an informed voter and then you have done your best if they pursue a different purpose than what you believed.

At the risk of being contrary to the others, I don't think Ann's post made a lot of sense. It sounds good, but then again, so do a lot of things, until you look at them a little closer. Ann is quite good at those kind of posts, and as long as she has the agreement of the rest of you, she will continue to have the idea that what she says hold more weight than what the rest of us say. Sorry, it's just her opinion, just as what we post is ours. It's silly at best to think that we don't need a President that will take into account the best interests of the American working class. Regardless of whom we vote for, once they get into the White House we have no responsibility for their actions. All we have a responsibility for is to try and make a judgment call about who will handle the job best. Once they are in office. our part is over. Unless you are one of those who think your voice makes a difference. I've finally come to the conclusion that nobodies voice means anything, unless you have millions of dollars you are willing to hand over to get your voice heard, and your wishes fulfilled.

8/30/2013

                   E Don..

                             It's been predicted the next presidency 2016 will cost 1 Billion
                      Dollars , that's disgusting, we need change and fast...

                                                            Cheers.Joe..

deleted

 

E Don wrote:

I wish we could elect a person to the White House that would go back to doing what's best for all of the American people, and not just the ones who donate the most and have the biggest and best lobbiests.

Ann wrote:

I don't expect our elected officials to do what is best for "all the American people."  There is not a single "best" for three-hundred-and-some-odd individuals.  Besides, that is only the number of US citizens, and ignores the rest of America, north and south.  We have no control over the rest of America, nor should we.

E Don. wrote:

I honestly believe that what is good for working people and the middle class is what is best for the country.

Do all "working people and members of the middle class" want or need the same things?  Are not some of them liberal and others conservative?

E Don wrote:

Unfortunately, since Reagan all of the Presidents have been doing what is best for corporate America, and that means the rest of us have to pay for it all, and suffer through the mistakes

All?  Are you including Clinton and Obama?

Since Reagan?  none before?

I'm not sure how much control the president has over corporate America That would probably be more the responsibility of the legislative branch.

E Don wrote:

 while the wealthy just go their merry way, making more and more money every year.

 I agree with your perception of "the wealthy," for the most part, although I don't believe that all wealthy people are taking advantage.

You used a lot of generalizations in that post, E Don.

Ann wrote:

I would hope that they each do what they believe in their hearts is the right thing to do.  Right - not expedient.  Not playing puppets to those who would control the world through controlling the economy and protecting their wealth and power.

We seem to be in agreement on that one.

ann wrote:

There was a time when we, the people, trusted our elected officials to do what was best, based on their perspectives.  We all share in the responsibility for the actions of those we give our votes.  How can we, in good conscience, deny our responsibility in the decisions they make?  We seem to be a generation of individuals, each crying out, "It's not my fault," while we project our denied common guilt onto the people we put in office to do the job of governing.

I don't think that my summation needs explaining.

E Don wrote:

 I don't think Ann's post made a lot of sense. It sounds good, but then again, so do a lot of things, until you look at them a little closer. Ann is quite good at those kind of posts, and as long as she has the agreement of the rest of you, she will continue to have the idea that what she says hold more weight than what the rest of us say

I'm having a bit of a problem making sense of your response, E Don.  I certainly do not have "the idea that what [I] say holds more weight" than anyone else's.

E Don wrote:

 Sorry, it's just her opinion, just as what we post is ours

Precisely! No need to be sorry.

E Don wrote:

It's silly at best to think that we don't need a President that will take into account the best interests of the American working class.

That would be a silly thing to think.  I neither said it nor think it.

E Don wrote:

Once they are in office. our part is over.

Yes, so long as we cast our vote, 

E Don wrote:

Unless you are one of those who think your voice makes a difference. I've finally come to the conclusion that nobodies voice means anything, unless you have millions of dollars you are willing to hand over to get your voice heard, and your wishes fulfilled.

That's too bad, E Don.  It must make you feel very powerless   Perhaps that is why you tend to turn an open discussion, with the sharing of various opinions, into a personal attack.

Best to you.

Difficult to respond to the previous posts.  I can agree with all with most comments.  On the whole, I think all are saying the same thing with a different voice.

As for voting, that is a tricky issue.  If the national vote was the deciding factor, then every vote cast would be significant.  Since it is a State by State thing for the Electorial College vote, then the vote is significant for the State in which one lives.  In the last election, a friend in Florida said that I need not fly to America to cast my vote in that she would cancel my vote out with her vote.  Then I realized that my vote counted for Virginia - not Florida, so I voted.

As DK said, not voting is still voting.  It gives the opposition a vote.

Just a couple of things to respond to. No, DK, I don't have any problem at all with intelligence, be it male or female. And I think everyone has a right to express themselves anyway they want, I just don't have to agree with it.

And Ann, I won't go into a huge point by point thing as you did, but I will say a couple of things. First, if you think I made a personal attack, then you don't recognize a personal attack when you see one. If I should decide to launch a personal attack, it won't be subtle and it will be very easy to understand what I'm saying. I was voicing my opinion, just as you were, and I happened to think what you said didn't make a lot of sense. And I'm sorry, but I certainly don't feel powerless. I have learned over many years of writing letters and posting things to various political sites that what the average person thinks makes very little difference to most of the people we've elected to office. And yes, Ann, what I said does indeed apply to Clinton and Obama. They have been bought and paid for just as Reagan and the two Bushes were. The Democrats don't have the best interest of most of us in mind any more than the Republicans do. The majority of us, me, you, everyone here, is being herded down one of two or three roads. The problem is that all of the roads have the same destination, and that's where we're going whether we like it or not. We just see different scenery along the way. I'm not being jaded, I'm just accepting the fact that our government has sold out to the highest bidder, and the fact is that most of us weren't even invited to the auction.

There is a good chance that over the years I've been more vocal than anyone here in opposing the move we've taken, but of course, I don't really know that. I do know that I've been talking about this for years, as have a lot of other people, and nothing about the way the government works has changed. If anything, the last 15 or so years it's gotten worse.

As far as intelligence goes, I think all of us are guilty of the same thing. We all think we know more than the others do, but we can't bring ourselves to admit that maybe we don't. I learned a long time ago that not everything I think is right is really right, and not everything I think should be, would actually be best for everyone. Sadly, too many people, mostly due to a sense of what they believe they've learned over the years, their experience or their education, come to think they really do know more than anyone else, and when someone disagrees with them, it must be a personal attack. Ann, I think due to your many years of teaching, you've come to think that everyone is in your classroom, and there is no room for thinking, only to do as you tell them. I personally believe you tend to talk down to people, again thinking that you're the teacher and they're the ones that have to learn whatever it is you're teaching them, and learn it the way you tell them too. I think you're a smart lady, I just don't see that whatever you used to teach makes you an expert on everything else. I will bow to your experience in the classroom, and admit that on whatever subject you taught you probably know more than most of us. Past that, once again it's just your opinion. And none of us are ever 100% right with our opinions.

And Abe, I agree that not voting is a vote. But I really don't think it makes a lot of difference anymore. No matter who wins, most of us are going to get screwed anyway. lol

Not goig to get into an intense discussio with you, but I think this attitude may be the basis of your problem:

Quote :

I really don't think it makes a lot of difference anymore. No matter who wins, most of us are going to get screwed anyway. lol

You create your reality, E Don. If that is what you believe, that is what you will bring into your life.

Deleted

8/31/2013

                          I agree 1000% !!

                           Cheers..Joe...

Ann, I don't know as I have a problem, but I'm beginning to think you do. And if so, that problem comes from using too many great sounding "old sayings" or what have you. You really should try and get away from repeating things you've heard or read, such as your thinking what I said creates a problem for me, and start thinking for yourself. We don't all fit into a the same little round hole, and anytime you post something that really means something. You said, "You create your reality, E Don. If that is what you believe, that is what you will bring into your life." and while I'm sure you think that makes sense to you, it makes none at all to me. We can create any reality we wish, but no matter how hard we try unless the world cooperates with us, we can't make that reality become the world we live in. Too many people post stuff like that, thinking it's has some deep meaning, when actually all the old sayings do is let you post something someone else said. Those sayings are a dime a dozen, they're posted by the weak, the people with no hope, and people who want to blame their life on things other than themselves. They're found in fortune cookies and AA meetings, and some people have made a lot of money saying things like that in seminars to people who can't figure out what to think for themselves. Just more things that sound good, until you start taking them apart. Then you see how little sense they actually make. Apparently you think I am hopelessly lost in a sea of despair over the political scene, but the truth is that people like us really are screwed. You can deny it all you want to, but it's still true. You will lose out every time, regardless of how positive and motivated you try to remain, when the government decides to pass a law or allow something to happen that isn't in your best interests. Obama doesn't know my name or yours, neither did Bush, Clinton or Reagan, and neither will the next one. They will continue to do what they do, and neither you or I will fit into the picture in any way whatsoever.

8/31/2013

                      E. Don..

                                1000%...... 

                                   Cheers..Joe..

I'm sure glad that positive affirmations work for me.  Of course they are made in light of circumstances beyond my control, but my life is 100% better by believing that hope springs eternal and that putting positive into the universe contributes to building positive energy.  Otherwise, I would be as miserable as the thoughts I chose to manifest.

There's a difference between stating facts that may point to a negative outcome versus believing that negative outcomes are inevitable.  They are not.  The universe strives for harmony.  I am very disappointed in our current government, campaign system and social hierarchy.  However, in spite of it all, I am able to make choices for my life that give me joy.  I recognize my contribution to the poor government by not paying attention and becoming more involved as it moved in this direction.

My original career was international politics and I was an intern lobbyist with the very republican National Association of Manufacturers.  I was told that it was not a fit career for a woman and I should teach instead.  They had made a mistake making me an intern, thinking my name was "Dan" in the days when mail was the main method of communication. They had to reorganize the program and I was the only female other than the secretary to the NAM.  However, my experiences contributed to my ability to lobby for people that I served in government grants over the years of my grant management career in spite of "females not appropriate as lobbyists."  That's sure changed!

I hate the inequitable distribution of wealth and opportunity in this country, the shipping of jobs and profits outside the country and the global politics based on wealth and power rather than the lives of people in any of the nations.  See the movie, "Blood Diamond" with Brad Pit for a taste of the value of war in the search for profits.

However, there are still dedicated bureaucrats across the world and citizen groups who do care about the ordinary person.  Occasionally, they win.

8/31/2013

                     I guess what E Don says is true Ann tries to talk down to us
                     like we're her students or DA DUMB....

                                                     Cheers..Joe,,,