What Happened to Independent Thought?

As I have dabbled in the book busines for the last two years, I have been surprised at the closed minded nature of readers and the industry in general. I read Shelagh's experience with Absolute Write. I had had attacks simply because iUniverse published my books even though the reviews are excellent etc. There is something afoot in the larger culture, that something is the modern tendency of people to accept corporate endorsement over their own independent judgement. It is truly puzzling that I read reviews of major publisher books from established authors where the readers hated the author's last 2 books but said I'll get the next one and give it a try. Those same readers could read great reviews about a PA or self-published book and still go back to the well of the author that has burned them twice. I am convinced that the dominance of corporate culture that has promoted this behavior. Walmart, chain restaurants and manufactured entetainment has conditioned consumers to look for the label.

There was a time when readers looked for the unknown gem, the author that hadn't made it yet and a name they could throw around that everyone didn't know about. Those days were before people grew up with 24x7 tv and were not totally dependent on big business to sustain them. I think that has diminished the independent streak that many people had in the past. The idea that the only good books out there come from traditional publishers is baffling. One day there will be a revelation that although traditionally published books are good, the main goal is sales and profit vs. art.

http://DTPollard.com

Quote :

There was a time when readers looked for the
unknown gem, the author that hadn't made it yet and a name they could
throw around that everyone didn't know about.

Excellent observation, DT. It's become like the designer clothes where
they spend a hundred bucks for a LABEL on a ten dollar pair of jeans.

Namedropping is a pathetic way of raising one's own status. I think of
a homeless person, sitting on the curb, reading The Wall Street
Journal, or the bag lady asking, "Have you read the latest Stephen
King novel? I found it rather droll..."

Several things surprise me after all these years:

People who go to beautiful restaurants and order a steak and a baked potato every single time.

People who go to a bookstore and basically do the same thing. Or, as you observe, burnt steak again and again.

Life lived that way appears so boring to me there's no point in it.

Malcolm

It seems today when a lot of people shop for books, they go for the books by "big name" authors and seem to ignore lesser known writers. It is unfortunate that a large percentage of the population is seemingly unwilling to take a chance and buy a book by an unknown author. By sticking with only "big name" authors people are missing out on a great many wonderful books by lesser known writers.

DT,
your observations are interesting. Those with power (bucks) will most always dominate. Promotion creates the sales needed to pay for the advances of the big named authors. They take centerstage in the book stores. Unless someone is looking for something specific, impulse buying based on the high profile author usually wins out.

In my view, for an unknown author, price is a big factor in having someone take a chance on buying. To pay for a softcover of an unknown author, the price of a hard cover for a recognized author or person, is tough battle.

What is so great about the authors here getting together is that I have gotten to read some fantastic books, like Abe's, Dick's and Betty's. They are truly as good as any hyped book out today. I have always loved finding gems, and I remember some of those "gems," self-published and small-published books that people told their friends about and their friends' friends and pretty soon they were right up there with the big guys.

Where are we as readers going wrong here?

Carol

What is so great about the authors here getting together is that I have gotten to read some fantastic books, like Abe's, Dick's and Betty's. They are truly as good as any hyped book out today. I have always loved finding gems, and I remember some of those "gems," self-published and small-published books that people told their friends about and their friends' friends and pretty soon they were right up there with the big guys.

Where are we as readers going wrong here?

Carol

Unfortunately, name recognition is everything and to achieve it a company must spend big bucks on advertising. About thirty years ago I interviewed a bigshot from a Cincinnati brewer, Hudepohl. Or was it Hudapohl? Anyway, he said, "Budweiser is everybody's second favorite beer because everybody knows the name. When you walk into a tavern in a strange city and don't want to embarrass yourself by ordering a beer they don't have, what do you say? 'Gimme a Bud.'"
He was right. I suppose the same thing applies in every field, including publishing. Some people, and we are among them, do it the other way and never patronize a chain store or restaurant.

I love your steak analogy Malcolm.

I love reading books that are off the beaten track, come from different places and "not yet discovered authors" because they are so much more interesting than some of the mainstream stuff. Getting the word out to readers and promoting those same books, however, is the hard part and people are not encouraged to read the "indie" book trade, nor do they tend to watch "indie" movies, and yet that is often where the very best stories are.

I think we need to keep doing what we are doing -- reading and watching stuff that is interesting and bucking the trend toward mainstream lives.

Shamelessly self-promoting the anthology when it's all ready to go won't hurt either.

There are some interesting trends taking place. Take micro-breweries for instance. Here in Wisconsin many are popping up with interesting beers like New Glarus Spotted Cow. Leininkugel's from Chippewa Falls is ever popular as well. The Lions Club up here in the woods has a brew fest where these people come from these small breweries and tell about their beers, giving free samples. For a entrance fee you get a pass into the fest and a free fancy glass for tasting. I don't like beer, but there are always other interesting beverages as well.

They opened a Sun Dance theater in Madison Wisconsin and that is doing very well.

All is not lost.

Carol

Instead of looking at all of society as a bunch of brainless sheep ... I prefer to look at individuals.

Then maybe we'd see people and the world in a better light.

I've heard it said that what makes a bestseller is 10% content and 90% marketing. It seems that it is virtually impossible for an unknown author to rise to the status of a "big name" author without spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on marketing and the vast majority of lesser known authors don't have anywhere near that much money. It seems that one needs to be either very lucky or very wealthy or already famous to rise to the top of the author pyramid.

P. Gordon Kennedy wrote:

I've heard it said that what makes a bestseller is 10% content and 90% marketing. It seems that it is virtually impossible for an unknown author to rise to the status of a "big name" author without spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on marketing and the vast majority of lesser known authors don't have anywhere near that much money. It seems that one needs to be either very lucky or very wealthy or already famous to rise to the top of the author pyramid.

So ... guess I will just go buy a box of Lucky Charms.

Dick, I remember Hudepohl beer from a long time ago. Does the brand still exist in your part of the world? The only place in town, Paducah, Kentucky, where Hudepohl could be obtained was the municipal golf course Nineteenth Hole. It was somewhat of a snob affectation to order a Hudie.

Jim Woods
www.ultrasw.com/jwoods

Unfortunately for Bud and Bud fans, Dick, it appears that AB is in danger of being bought by somebody else. I got dibs on all the horses.

Jim, I never drank that beer, but some other brands I did drink are long gone. Even now, when I go in the grocery store, Bud and Coors have about 90% of the shelf space. Sort of like Nora Roberts and James Cameron in B&N.

I do like steak, Pam, just not every day. Same goes for the famous authors. (In fact I mostly read people that "nobody's ever heard of.")

Malcolm

Malcolm wrote:

I do like steak, Pam, just not every day. Same goes for the famous authors. (In fact I mostly read people that "nobody's ever heard of.")

Malcolm

... like me. Hold onto that book, Malcolm. I might be famous one day!

With 5,000 plus breweries where I live, I stay away from the top advertised brands. They cost more because of name recognition but are not better in quality. Getting my hands on a good beer is easier than getting my hands on a good book.

Anything that is advertised costs money and that is passed on to the end user. To think that our books will sell by themselves is absurd. There must be some marketing program to get them in the eye of the public. That is what many of us thought PA would do by placing them in those phantom 10,000 brick and mortar stores.

Having our books on Amazon was a big help. Any promotion we did could be tied into Amazon - a recognzed source.

It doesn't make sense to blame lack of sales of our books on the industry or the readers.

There are many readers out there looking for new writers. Several of you are among them.

And just about every writer on the bestseller list was once as much an unknown as we are. And if you read how they finally made it you find out that they were rejected a gazillion times before finally getting a break. Maybe it was luck ... if you believe in luck. Or maybe it was just that their manuscript was in the right place at the right time in front of the right person.

But anyone (like most of us) who goes with an indepedent press or POD press should know that (and therefore not expect easy fame) they will be doing just about all their own marketing. We come into this knowing that bookstores aren't going to be bending over backwards to put our books on their shelves.

We know we won't be retiring on the money (if there is any) we make from our novels.

Getting POD, self publishing, or indy press novels sold is entirely up to us.

No one else is going to make it happen.

Nothing or no one else should be blamed if it isn't selling well.

Most of us probably wrote our novels believing it worthy of readership and believed that it would have an audience.

Then find we need to find our audience and promote to that audience.


I am sorry I mostly don't agree with the original post. I don't think most of society, at least not the readers, are that shallow.

Most of the readers I know, like most of you here, ARE independent thinkers and search out books that interest them regardless of the author.

While I HAVE read the Harry Potter novels and I DO read the "finish in two hours" paperback romance novels ... I also have many other interests and will spend time browsing for books and have found plenty of "gems" by unknown writers.

My son has read Michael Crichton, but he's also fascinated by world events and history and has found some interesting books by writers who are not on NY bestseller list.

Like I said before, if you take the time to see the individual; and stop saying "everybody" this and "everyone" that ... your world gets a little bigger ... and better.

Abe F. March wrote:

To think that our books will sell by themselves
is absurd. There must be some marketing program to get them in the eye
of the public. That is what many of us thought PA would do by placing
them in those phantom 10,000 brick and mortar stores.

Having our books on Amazon was a big help. Any promotion we did could be tied into Amazon - a recognzed source.

So true, Abe. And if you read PA's posts even today, newbies are still
led to think that. Actually, most writers think that when you sign with
a publisher, your books get placed in a book store because that's what
normally happens with a commercial book publisher.

And to attract the attention of today's commercial publisher, you have
to first audition for an agent by writing a book they think will sell.

People like things that are familar and tend to shy away from the new just in case it isn't as good as what they know. Like the old saying, `better the devil you know.`

Jim, I don't know if Hudepohl is still available in the Cincinnati area. Probably not.

I believe PA said its books are available to all bookstores, which is true. Even the biggest trade publishers don't get all their books in too many bookstores, just the top sellers. The salesmen push the ones most likely to sell, just as salesmen do in every field. Even if the buyer for Borders or the one for B&N decide to go with a book by a lesser known writer it won't show up in every one of the chain's stores. Check the number of mysteries in any Borders or B&N, for example, and then check them in a store specializing in mysteries. The difference is astounding and it applies to all genres as well as mainstream fiction..

Well, Dick, I have five personal friends who are all published with the majors, and my neighbor's book, while in MN, hit mega sales and is now in production for a major movie. All of their books were placed into book stores as soon or before they're released, even my neighbor's debut novel. Most books bought by a chain such as B&N are placed in the system and on the shelves. Some order more copies than others, true, but at least they're in the stores.

PA books are not. When I started having trouble in 2005, I called B&N's home office and they have policy not to nationally stock PA books. Some local stores may do so, but usually on a consignment basis. Authors with the majors don't worry about consignment. The publisher's sales dept makes sure the stores have copies.

The thing I find astonishing is that you "have five personal friends who are all published with the majors" and you're not. What does that tell you? It doesn't matter what it tells me because I'm not in a position to do anything about it.

Forget PA; that's history. What are you going to do now?

Well that's pretty snarky, Shelagh.

Perhaps I don't write in the same genre; perhaps I had to take a lot of time off to act as caretaker for a mother with a terminal illness. Perhaps there are several reasons I'm way behind my friends.

I know you bristle when someone says something negative about PA; however, a lot of people here are with or have been with PA and I'd think a writers' forum should tell the truth about writing and publishing whether or not some members want to hear it.

And I didn't bring PA into this discussion. It was someone else, so why don't you tell them to shut up or is it just the women you try to silence?

Brenda,

I think that is wonderful about your friends. But I don't believe that is what most of us can expect in reality. When I hear those things, know how long I have been writing, I feel like chopped liver. Really. I'll never get there. I'm an almost ran most of the time, and perhaps always will be.

But I write well. I was told I had fine work. I almost made a very respected military publisher, and I'm not giving up.

But my heart knows. To see a book in a major bookstore in another city is a dream. But because it has not happened does not indicate I am a failure.

PA said "yes" when everyone else said "no." There is value in that and I had no problems. Sure I hoped for more. But it is all right and my books are beautiful.

You are also a beautiful writer and no excuses are necessary. We both do our best and we just haven't been in the right place at the right time, yet.

Love, Carol