this will make you believe in Him

When I was younger, I used to believe in Him. But one day in the recent past I was watching the science channel and it convinced me that there wasn't a God or Creator. But, things are kind of hectic in my life right now and I had been looking for something to look up to, since not many things are looking up to me. I wanted to believe in God but I just wasn't sure, so I went to youtube and typed in scientific proof of god and watched these videos. But the videos aren't quite exactly "scientific proof," although they do bring up some very good points and make you think. But it's not just these videos that made me believe either, but other, smaller insiginficant things. (If you could call them that.) It's best to watch the video on the right first, but it doesn't really matter which one you watch first because you'll want to watch both of them again. I'll post more vidoes as I find more and the ones that are...that bring up good points. The videos are kind of long though, but they're very good. These are my favorite videos!

Thank you. I believe in Him.

Nice videos. They are long. I've only had time to watch the top one closely - enough of the second to get its gist.

I have a couple of questions, or the same question about a couple of terms: How do you define the terms "life" and "God." The definitions could make a difference.

While I was watching, I found myself getting up, at times, to pull some books off my shelf. Three books: The Unfinished Universe, Louise B. Young, 1986; Chaos: Making a New Science, James Gleick, 1987; and Field, Form, and Fate: Patterns in Mind, Nature, and Psyche, Michael Conforti, 1999.

One of the points they all have in common, in one way or another, has to do with the frequency, from infinitesimally small to universally gigantic, of replicating patterns in the natural world and in the mind. The importance of the repetition of these patterns implies both design, and the possibility for a greater frequency of re-occurrence. So, while it is true that the complexity of necessary attributes for life to occur are very great, and so, life is very rare, the presence of a limited number of re-occurring patterns helps to balance that somewhat. In other words, while it is probable that there are not many planets that support life, it is also probable that Earth is not the only one.

One of the neatest (I think) occurrences to illustrate this is the Mandelbrot Set, discovered by Benoit Mandelbrot, through the use of a random number generator and computer graphics.

I am not a physicist, so am not good at explaining it, and I don't know how to embed a video, so I'm only showing you a link.

The computer graphic created byt the random number generator produces a picture of a black bug-looking thing: completely symmetrical and always identical. What is very cool and significant is that if you hone in on a section - any section - and continue to take a smaller section and enlarge each one, you will eventually come back to the original image. The video shows it better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REoVmEcYg6c&feature=related

So, what we consider random and chaotic is really highly regular and orderly. This order would imply a common source. I like to think of God, not as a grandfatherly anthropomorphic (don't you love that word?) figure, but closer to the Star Wars concept of "The Force that binds the universe together."

I like, in fact, to think of the Universe itself as a single organism, where solar systems are like cells.

Ann

Dear Ann,
Awesome.

Betty, did you catch the quotation at the beginning of vampreheart's first video? Our beloved T. S. eliot on coming back to where we started?

Ann

I watched the video and understand what you mean. But if Earth and it's life forms were just one giant, simple organisim, wouldn't we be more like Mars? That's just my opinion though and it does depend on how you view the videos and what not, but I think that finding another Earth-like planet is as likely as they will find "aliens" on Mars. And with all the planets they've found so far, they've never found one like Ours. They're all gas giants anyway. And there are also a lot of unexplainable things that happen in this world too...Like that tv show I Shouldn't Be Alive. Those people who get into situations like that would have to have a gardian looking out for them wouldn't they?

Guardians, synchronistic happenings - to paraphrase Shakespeare, there are more things in Heaven and Earth than we dream of in our philosophies.

Ann

This is a great thread! I am enjoying the exchange and "thinking."

Still...If evolution did happen, then why didn't all the monkeys evolve into humans? Even though we're very closely matched to monkeys, why aren't all the monkeys humans too? Thank you DK. 'Cause wouldn't we have the very same DNA as monkeys if we came from them???

I recommend On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin and The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins.

This article in the New Scientist suggests a strong link with neanderthal man:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18869-neanderthal-genome-reveals-interbreeding-with-humans.html

Not all species mutate into something viable and, therefore, the mutation dies out.

There is confusion over comapring DNA samples:

"This is a common source of confusion, and no wonder. There are many different ways of comparing genetic similarity. The often quoted fact that people are genetically nearly identical to chimps, for example, comes from the analysis of amino acids coded for by just a couple of genes that we share with chimps. 98 per cent of those amino acids are the same.

The 50 per cent figure for people and bananas roughly means that half of our genes have counterparts in bananas."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17523584.000-people-arent-bananas.html

Non-scientists watch programmes on television and misuse the information given out. We are not 50% bananas -- even if we give that impression most of the time!

It wouldn't be that we evolved from monkeys so much as that the monkeys evolved from the same species that we did. Life tends to diversify and become more complex.

Ann

I feel like I'm in my biology class again, lol. Bananas, gnats...monkeys...Then why can't scientisits explain where we originated? And besides, it's the same thing with birds. There are a lot of different types of finches and parrots, yet none of them are the same kind of bird. And so our world goes 'round.

Charles Darwin explained how life on Earth evolved in his book, On the Origin of Species. Over the last few weeks, David Attenborough has explained in a BBC series how life on earth originated billions of years ago. He started with fossils that showed the very first creatures (as opposed to plant life) that began life in the ocean and how these simple creatures mutated into more complex forms of life -- grew legs and started to walk around and eventually procreate, mutate and grow bigger. Over millions of years these small forms of life developed a spine and started the whole process of evolution:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vspkd

Well I am RH negative, so is my my husband, daughter and son. That tells me we have nothing in common with the monkeys.

We were created by God.

God created the World, Alice. We really have big egos if we think that God's sole intention was to create the human race. We are part of an ongoing process. We still have a long way to go.

Interesting thread. Videos too long to view and give valid comment.
I do believe in a universal intelligence. It can be called God.
I am skeptical when it comes to videos believing that many are professionally manipulated.
While simulation is needed for a good perspective and presentation, it can also be misleading. Interpretation of what we see or read leads to more questions. Great strides have been made yet our search for answers continue. We live in exciting times and in a boundless universe. As individuals we are insignificant unless we believe that we are part of the universal heartbeat. I believe we are.

"Universal heartbeat." I like that.

Ann

Shelagh,

I believe God created the world and also everything in it--not just people.

We might still have a long ways to go, which is true, but consider how long humans have been on Earth, and the event that whiped everything out. Well, almost everything but still. Consider how long the current speicies of humans have been around. Wouldn't we have changed by now? And if we're that close to a banana, how could we be even closer still to a monkey? Or a gnat for that matter?

I know you do, Alice. it's just that God did not fashion the creatures on this Earth -- they evolved and we are part of that evolution. As such, we are no better than any other creature -- our brains may be larger but we can be very destructive both in our thinking and in our ways. Animals with smaller brains can be much less destructive. All creatures great and small ...

That may be true too, but humans can correct their ways. Or at least try. If two lions or two deer get into a fight and one dies, that's that. And besides, if there wasn't a God, everyone who believes, no matter what they call their God or what they say thier God did, we would all be wrong wouldn't we? Even so, we all believe in something.

[quote="Shelagh"]I know you do, Alice. it's just that God did not fashion the creatures on this Earth -- they evolved and we are part of that evolution.

We do not agree. Your view takes faith so does mine. You believe Darwin, I. I believe in God.

God has done far more for me than Darwin has. Darwin has done nothing for me.

Just me.

You couldn't have put it better Alice.

vampireheartauthor wrote:

That may be true too, but humans can correct their ways. Or at least try. If two lions or two deer get into a fight and one dies, that's that. And besides, if there wasn't a God, everyone who believes, no matter what they call their God or what they say thier God did, we would all be wrong wouldn't we? Even so, we all believe in something.

If two deer or two lions fight, it is to strengthen the whole group. The losing animal usually backs off and allows the younger, stronger opponent to become the "leader of the pack" thus ensuring that the strongest genes are passed on to the next generation.

alice wrote:

We do not agree. Your view takes faith so does mine. You believe Darwin, I. I believe in God.

God has done far more for me than Darwin has. Darwin has done nothing for me.

Just me.

Your beliefs may very well be based on blind faith, Alice. I don't have any faiths or beliefs. I can accept that God created the world along with the scientific explantions of how the world and the living creatures evolved. I don't have "faith" in scientific discovery. I accept that which I can understand and keep an open mind about scientific concepts that I find hard to grasp because of my own limted scientific knowledge. Nothing at all to do with faith.

Years ago, when I was teaching a class of thirteen-year-olds involved in a heated debate about God, I put it to them that they used logarithm tables to do mathematical calculations, and they agreed that they did. I asked if they understood how logarithms worked. They didn't know. I explained, chalk and talk, how logarithms work. I asked if this understanding meant that their calculations would be more relaible now that they understood. They all agreed that, whether they understood or not, using logarithms would always produce the right answer. So, I asked if they needed to understand about God or could they just rely on Him without understanding. Not everyone in the class had followed the logarithms explanation, but they knew that the bright kids in the classs understood. For different reasons, the whole class agreed that you didn't always need an explanation and that sometimes it was okay to just accept things.

Shelagh,

I respect you and your opinions. I would never wish to make anyone agree wtih me. It would profit me nothing.