Reincarnation

I definitely have an open mind about it. It could explain Jung's collective unconscious. I read The Road Less Traveled shortly after it was originally published, and it definitely resonated all the way through. I have read some books on Edgar Cayce that were very intriguing.

Richard Bach's books, particularly Illusions, have been powerful influences on my way of seeing things.

As Hamlet pointed out to Horatio, "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in...philosophy."

Ann

Reincarnationh (in the Buddhist/Vedanta sense) makes much more sense than the Christian idea of souls being cranked out, having a few years to determine where they spend eternity, then heaven and hell getting dumped full of them forever.

But "real" reincarnation is very different from all this "past lives" crap (when everybody was kings and princesses and stuff, never toilet cleaners).

Both Christianity and this Bridey Murphy type of re-incarnation are examples of the desperation of the ego trying to conserve itself: to retain THIS personality in heaven, to STILL BE ME.

Which is pretty unlikely and is typical of the grasping, paranoid, crazy nature of the ego, which is exactly what the traiditions I mention attempt to free the personality from.

You're kidding, right?

I have no patience for a movie - so we watch tapes of my favorite show, "Have Gun - Will Travel! Richard Boone (as Paladin) had to love that roll. He dresses fit, beats up the bad guys and loves all the ladies!

If there is such a thing as re-incarnation, I think I’ll come back as Paladin! (While secretly I wouldn’t mind having a 1948 Packard, and have my 1969 Corvair convertible back along with it!)

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Coming back to what? When my energy (soul) leaves my dead body, it is still alive. How it will evolve from that point is the mystery.

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Now I don't know if you've driven a ‘48 Packard or not Abe, but if you have you've already had a glimpse of heaven. Recall it had an 288 c.i., 130 HP 8 cyl L-head (flat head) engine and a final drive ratio of 3.9 : 1. It had lateral stabilizers so's it drove like a dream and quite as a whisper. It was an eye catcher

I personally know of three who bought ‘48 Cadillacs, who after seeing the Packard were never seen again. It was suspicioned that they fell off a cliff or jumped out of a window!

For them reincarnation is the way to go!
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James
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I've never driven a packard, but I rode in them when I was a child.

Abe F. March wrote:

Coming back to what?  When my energy (soul) leaves my dead body, it is still alive.  How it will evolve from that point is the mystery.

Some religions teach the soul leave the body at death. These same religions claim to use the bible. Here are a few things the Bible says about the soul;



Adam became a living soul.

The soul that is sinning, it itself will die.

!25,00 souls lived there.



There are many scriptures that say the human body, also animals, are living souls.

I can post all the scriptures to them if you want.



There are scriptures of the condition on the dead also. Here are a few.



Asleep in the grave.

Asleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection.

Your thoughts do parish.

I think we hunger for immortality.  Thus, the theory that suits our thinking at the time may resonate.  I don't know.  I know I fear the unknown.  I think there is something called "cell" memory that carries forward through genetics.  I'm not certain.  I think a lot of the mystical stuff is just tapping into what's stored in the unconscious.

dkchristi wrote:

I think we hunger for immortality.  Thus, the theory that suits our thinking at the time may resonate.  I don't know.  I know I fear the unknown.  I think there is something called "cell" memory that carries forward through genetics.  I'm not certain.  I think a lot of the mystical stuff is just tapping into what's stored in the unconscious.

The Egyptians loved life. Death got in the way. They invented their hereafter where life could go one. Many people fear death. Death is not what we want once we have tasted life. As the Egyptians, people find a way to live with death that is always around the corner.

I do not fear death. I don’t like the idea, but it holds no fear for me.

I have tested the Bible, and believe what it says…”The dead are asleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection. If I am not resurrected, I will never know it. If I am, the time in death will seem as a second. God promises those who believe in Jesus will have life. That is the only requirement. If I am resurrected, I hope to see all of you there. Think of the feast, and joy we will have. God says, all the former things will be forgotten. If I am not there, I pray all of you are.

I envy those with a clear understanding of death and resurrection.  I don't believe that what goes to the grave is ever anything but a return to the dust.  Our body is organic like any living thing.  When the life force ends, the organic body disintegrates.  Period.

I hope that there is a spiritual energy that does continue in some way - it just seems all we have experienced in this world we know should not be lost with death. 

I cannot believe the words of the Bible as the one truth because I do not believe any one writing is a true reflection of the power behind the universe.  It is but a piece and together with all other pieces of belief and philosophy from across the peoples of the globe represents only the smallest glimmer of what the human mind may comprehend of our beginning and whatever follows the death of the organic body.

dkchristi wrote:

I envy those with a clear understanding of death and resurrection.  I don't believe that what goes to the grave is ever anything but a return to the dust.  Our body is organic like any living thing.  When the life force ends, the organic body disintegrates.  Period.

I hope that there is a spiritual energy that does continue in some way - it just seems all we have experienced in this world we know should not be lost with death. 

I cannot believe the words of the Bible as the one truth because I do not believe any one writing is a true reflection of the power behind the universe.  It is but a piece and together with all other pieces of belief and philosophy from across the peoples of the globe represents only the smallest glimmer of what the human mind may comprehend of our beginning and whatever follows the death of the organic body.

Organic? My body is not organic...it's Italian.

My approach to life is based mostly on logic.  If energy never dies, once the body ceases to function, the energy leaving the body goes somewhere.  That somewhere is the mystery.  I associate the energy leaving the body as the soul departing.  Dreams that I had make these connections, but trying to share that here is a waste of time.  Spiritual matters are a personal thing, IMV.  I can make statements about my belief and then be challenged to prove it.  I can't.  How can I prove a feeling?  How can I prove a spirit?  How can I prove a dream?  Some things cannot be explained and yet one knows it is real to them.

Well, we don't see electricity but we count on it to turn on lights.  We don't see wi-fi but count on it for our computers.  I'd have to read up on both to get any sort of explanation.  Then there's thunder and lightning, major magic.

Abe F. March wrote:

My approach to life is based mostly on logic.  If energy never dies, once the body ceases to function, the energy leaving the body goes somewhere.  That somewhere is the mystery.  I associate the energy leaving the body as the soul departing.  Dreams that I had make these connections, but trying to share that here is a waste of time.  Spiritual matters are a personal thing, IMV.  I can make statements about my belief and then be challenged to prove it.  I can't.  How can I prove a feeling?  How can I prove a spirit?  How can I prove a dream?  Some things cannot be explained and yet one knows it is real to them.

I think the word you're looking for to explain it might be "FAITH".

I think you're right, Don.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen."

And proof, in this sense, is the opposite of faith, The bishop of our Episcopal diocese here once said it this way: The opposite of faith is not doubt; the opposite of faith is religious certainty."

I like that definition, Ann.

This concept we often call God, I've read and heard, can be envisioned in three different ways. The Christian Trinity refers to them as The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit or Ghost. We can percieve this God in these three forms: as transcendent (outside and/or above us, in a different reality - a Father who created us), as incarnate (a human embodiment that we can see and feel and communicate with directly - a Son who lives and speaks to us), and as immanent (a God within, something that seems to be inside of us, whispering in a silent voice - a spirit or ghost).

The concept of the Holy Trinity says that the one God is all three, appearing to us in different forms.

The sense of there being something "out there - a power higher than ourselves, but involved, perhaps even the "creator" of our universe represents our notion of a transcendent God, outside our world, looking in and having the power to change the natural course of our lives, both individually and collectively. Enlightened humans are those who have been honored as Masters: Guantanamo Buddha, Jesus of Nazareth, Muhammad, founder of Islam for examples, are representatives of incarnations, or at least of prophets and teachers who can show us the Ways to reach God. The Self, according to Carl Jung, is one way of representing the Inner Spirit, the Holy Spirit, which is heard through our human intuition. Different perspectives give different names to Forces that have an effect on our individual perspectives of the world (or worlds) that we live in. The One God speaks in many voices. Who are we, as mere humans, to think our own individual perspective is the correct one?

Just me, again.

alj wrote:

This concept we often call God, I've read and heard, can be envisioned in three different ways.  The Christian Trinity refers to them as The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit or Ghost.  We can percieve this God in these three forms: as transcendent (outside and/or above us, in a different reality - a Father who created us), as incarnate (a human embodiment that we can see and feel and communicate with directly - a Son who lives and speaks to us), and as immanent (a God within, something that seems to be inside of us, whispering in a silent voice - a spirit or ghost).

The concept of the Holy Trinity says that the one God is all three, appearing to us in different forms.

The sense of there being something "out there - a power higher than ourselves, but involved, perhaps even the "creator" of our universe represents our notion of a transcendent God, outside our world, looking in and having the power to change the natural course of our lives, both individually and collectively.  Enlightened humans are those who have been honored as Masters: Guantanamo Buddha, Jesus of Nazareth, Muhammad, founder of Islam for examples, are representatives of incarnations, or at least of prophets and teachers who can show us the Ways to reach God.  The Self, according to Carl Jung, is one way of representing the Inner Spirit, the Holy Spirit, which is heard through our human intuition.  Different perspectives give different names to Forces that have an effect on our individual perspectives of the world (or worlds) that we live in.  The One God speaks in many voices.  Who are we, as mere humans, to think our own individual perspective is the correct one?

Just me, again.

Good post alj,
 Lets assume the trinity is true...lets see if it makes sense;
In the trinity, God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are one in the same person, and that all religions are from God.
The Muslim religion does not believe Jesus was God, nor the son of God. Muslims are told to subdue the non-Muslims, or kill them. Does that sound like a religion God would create?

Back to the trinity; Remember, we are assuming Jesus, and God are the same person.

When Jesus was praying, who was he praying to, himself?
Why Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I?" Why did he not say, "I am greater than me."
Why Jesus said, "Do not pray to me, but through me to the father?" Why did he not say, " Do not pray to me, but pray to me through me"
When Jesus said, "You can not come to me, unless the father has sent you?" Why did he not say, "You can not come to me, unless I have sent you."
Right before Jesus death he looked up and said, "Father why have you forsaken me?" "Why did he not say, "Self, why have you forsaken yourself."

If Jesus and God the Father are the same person, would he not have been talking to himself, or about himself? if so, those statements don't make sense.

This power the Catholic church calls the Holy Ghost...it is not a ghost, it is Gods acting force,

Most religions who use the trinity base it of a scripture which reads, "The father, and I are one." This sounds like they are the same person...but is that what he meant?

Three thousand people were baptized in one day. Jesus said, "Father, let these be one with me, as I am with you." Again, is he talking to himself? and if the trinity were true, would not those three thousand now also be God?

The problem, Domenic, begins when one attempts to literalize the symbol.  We use symbols to help us approach an understanding of things that are beyond the ability of humans to perceive directly.  We use metaphorical language to say what the concept is "like."  Attempting to grasp the symbol as literal truth, we limit the concept, and in limiting it, we distort it.  We lessen its value, it's power and force.

We have to begin with the humility of realizing that there are things beyond our mere human ability to comprehend.  Our intuition, our connection to that collective unconscious that we all share, leads us to the symbols that surface in our dreams and the metaphoric stories that become our myths.  They approach Reality, and help us to grasp a part of it, but they are not real, and when we attempt to make them real, we lose the insight they can draw us toward.  

We are continually evolving creatures, which means that our interpretations of our stories must be fluid so that they can reflect our changing worldviews - our always limited perceptions of the world as it really is.

That being said, the concept of the Trinity has to do with the "three persons" of the one God.  Three "personifications" of a single Force.  The limits of space-time do not allow us to grasp the concept of one-in-many.  We see ourselves as separate entities rather than as pieces of a whole.  So we ask how there can be three representations of one God.  We have limited the ability of this God by making an anthropomorphic illusion of something like an old bearded man.

God is so much more.  God is a word we use to describe the Ultimate Source of All Being.  Trying to literalize this Source's existence into a single being denies It's omnipotence.

The concept of The Triinity is one symbol for explaining the Mystery.

My take, anyway