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 Reincarnation

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Domenic Pappalardo
Abe F. March
James
lin
alj
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 10:38 am

Dom, I agree wilth Ann's post.  As stated before, I respect your beliefs.  That doesn't mean I agree with them.  I trust that you respect the right of others to their beliefs.  As to who is right or wrong we won't know until we die and that will be too late to share with you, 
I am not interested in doing a Bible study with you or anyone else.  You are not the only one who has studied the Bible.  Reaching conclusions about what is read is where the conflict begins.  Comparative Religious Studies is an eye opener, yet non conclusive.  The similarities between religions tend to draw on similar sources.  Myth is a big one.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 10:42 am

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:
If there is a God, he has taken note of you.

And I have taken note of Her. No worries.

If you mean what you say about not trying to change minds, then you ought to be able to accept the differences in others perspectives and let it go.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 10:49 am

Threats?  "God will take note of you" for questioning with the mind given to us for that purpose? Sounds a little judgmental to me.

I also believe that the Bible is a collection of historical documents written by men from stories passed down and changed along the way, both in the story telling, the writing, and the translations as happens with oral  histories, even to which documents to include.

I believe writers were "channeled" from God as much as I believe any other claimant who says their books were "channeled" even though they may have wonderful guiding principles for living a meaningful life.  They may have felt inspired by God, but what they wrote is  not necessarily "God's word."

For me, "God" is within us all but speaks differently to each because we are unique creatures.  Therefore, one person finds the perfect text and source for their life's decisions and beliefs through the Bible.  That is right for that person who has found that belief through examination of their heart. The Bible is rightfully God's word for that person.

God's word for me is what I hear in my own times of meditation and contemplation where I sort out all I have learned and try to make sense of it for my own existence.  I find the Bible provides useful guidance and comfort because so many people staked their lives on it.  It is not the only religious work that I find useful and a comfort.

Any religious text results from men attempting to explain the unexplainable so they borrow from their own experiences to create explanations with rules.

Reincarnation is part of the balance of nature - and as I wrote in Ghost Orchid, if God has a plan for all the living plants and animals, there is surely a plan for me, even if it's to become part of the dust of the earth that will nourish new growth.

I know today as I am alive.  I will not know death.  I expect it to be like sleep without dreams.  Because I find value in living, I don't wish to have eternal sleep as yet.  I do not believe in eternal heaven or hell or purgatory or any of the creations from man's mind that helped to control the behavior of people. 

Heaven is a nice fantasy, but I don't think it fits with my definition of rewards.  I'll take my rewards on earth, thank you, if I have any coming.

Most spiritual leaders and religions share the belief that we should treat others as we wish to be treated.  That's the rule for my life.  I learned it as a child in Bible school and as an adult from studies of ancient and current religions.  It seems to have universal application.  I don't need to fear hell or look for heaven or believe my good soul will get better treatments than someone else who is a sinner.  Those judgmental determinations are created by man, not our creator.


Last edited by dkchristi on Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 10:54 am

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 10:57 am

Yes, good post.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 11:11 am

People have turned from Gods written word in the past...he has not overlooked their actions. If there is a
threat...it is from his written word. As to God being a "Her," I'm sure he takes that as an insult, and a challenge.  Jesus called God Father...that makes him, a HE. That is a challenge of a fool.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 11:20 am

I'll take my chances with the fools.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 1:18 pm

dkchristi wrote:
I'll take my chances with the fools.



God never gave man the freedom of choice, that was something they took on their own. He has allowed it to go on. It gives him a clear picture of who will, and who will not serve him out of love. The first creation to do this thing we now call freedom, which is really rebellion, was Satan. All people have, or will mark where they stand. Those against God need not fear death. There is no hell of fire, or any such place of suffering. Death is just nothing. Those who die go back to the dust. No thought, no dreaming…just nothing, like you were never born. Yes the atoms live on, but nothing of the person does. So if people do not what to follow Gods laws out of love, but would rather have freedom, (rebellion) they will not suffer in death, nor will they be brought back to life. The scriptures say, “The fool says there is not God.”



Some believe they will be given a second chance…did those destroyed at the flood have a second chance?
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 3:26 pm

It seems to me that your god demands love but does not give it in return. He denys the people freedom, makes capricious laws, and disobeyment means death.

And you refer to this god as a father!

I wonder, do you truly believe in this god? Or is it just more satisfying to stir up dissension by playing games and crossing boundaries?
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 3:30 pm

You're welcome to your God, Domenic. I want none of Him. The bible serves its purpose for those who want to follow it. I want none of that either. Whatever my perception of God is (and I would be hard pushed to describe it), it has nothing to do with teachings from the bible or any other text. Let those who gain comfort from such scribblings continue to do so, but it's not for me. If you are as happy and content with following the bible as I am without following it, then neither of us needs to convince the other about anything. We can live our lives happily without having to badger one another.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyMon Jun 09, 2014 10:17 pm

Ahhhh Shelagh, you brought a breath of fresh air to the subject.
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Don Stephens
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 1:30 am

Shelagh wrote:
You're welcome to your God, Domenic. I want none of Him. The bible serves its purpose for those who want to follow it. I want none of that either. Whatever my perception of God is (and I would be hard pushed to describe it), it has nothing to do with teachings from the bible or any other text. Let those who gain comfort from such scribblings continue to do so, but it's not for me. If you are as happy and content with following the bible as I am without following it, then neither of us needs to convince the other about anything. We can live our lives happily without having to badger one another.



Amen!
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 8:46 am

People judge others, and their way of thinking based on some point of reference. It seem to me, those on this thread are judging what I believe based on what the religions of the world claim is written in stone.

I have always stated, “Much of the Bible used by presented people who claim to be Christian, is a work that has been changes, and the teachings of religions channel people thinking. “Believe as we say, or burn in a Hell of fire.””

I believe as the early Christians who followed Jesus, and understood what he was saying. What he was saying is nothing like the religions teach.”

There are many scrolls found with the dead Sea Scrolls. These Scrolls were in use before, and after Jesus death. Yes I believe in the Bible, but, I have stated, “It can be proven much of Bible has been changed, or left out to support religions, by religions.” It does not take much effort to find what has been changed, and what has been put aside.

Below is a site that better explains some how a Christian believes, once free of these false religion who claim they are the mouth piece for God.

Gnostics Christians - A Different Way To Be Christian

gnosticschristians.com Cached

The gnostic style of faith is free, open, and creative. This web site is for those who are interested in learning about a different way to be a Christian.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 9:58 am

Taken from Domenic Pappalardo's link - Gnostic Christians:


Quote :
In contrast, the Gnostics were "seekers." It was far more important to seek God through all kinds of knowledge rather than "just believe." They were believers in Christ, but they heard a different message from Jesus. They had beliefs, as we all do, but they did not insist they had the corner on -- or final -- truth in interpreting the world or God. Christ's message was more spiritual than religious -- not bearing all the answers. The place to find God was within oneself, not in externals like beliefs, dogma, or dictates of the church. Their interpretation was that we could experience the living Christ and God, by seeking, not finalizing God

First of all, Gnostic Christianity is a modern-day religion. It bases its tenants on the scrolls and texts found at the Dead Sea and Nag Hammadi, which its leaders have interpreted and translated to fit the needs of their new religion. Gnosticism in its early forms was a group of heretical sects which the early church disputed. The main thing these texts do is to prove that the Bible is not the infallable word of God, as they often contradict the accepted canon, which was endorsed by the Churhc in Rome in the 4th century. There is nothing about them that proves anything else. They merely represent another perspective from the days when the religion was forming.

now, let's take a look at the above paragraph from your site.

They had beliefs, as we all do, but they did not insist they had the corner on -- or final -- truth in interpreting the world or God.

But wait, isn't that what you have been claiming? that you had that, "corner on -- or final -- truth in interpreting the world or God"?

Their interpretation was that we could experience the living Christ and God, by seeking, not finalizing God.

All of us here have been relating our personal experiences of seeking God. You have been denying the validity of our seeking by finalizing God for us.


I have read much about this 21st Century Gnostic Christian religion and believe it has much to offer towards understanding the mystery. If you are saying that you follow the beliefs of this religion, then good for you. This is a religion that, "heard a different message from Jesus. They had beliefs, as we all do, but they did not insist they had the corner on -- or final -- truth in interpreting the world or God.

Thanks for the link. It explains a lot.

You, sir, have a way of giving new meaning to the teerm, "bully pulpit."

Just me.

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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 10:13 am

alj,
 you really need to grow up and get a life. I have no idea what your hate is about, and don't care...you are one sick puppy. You follow me around this forum, and all that comes out of your mouth is anger, and smug comments toward anything I post. I can understand why your husband left you...the poor bastard must have went through hell. Get some help.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 10:52 am

Dom,
Ann gave an informative answer to your post.  You have been baiting her and she hasn’t risen to the bait.  Either you are fishing in the wrong pond or you need to change your bait.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 12:02 pm

Just being me - I think it is possible to have opposing points of view without attacking the person with a different view.

A friend and I spoke on the phone today.  She abides by her spouse's thinking because he is brilliant, well-educated and powerful.  She feels less able to form her own opinions.  Thus, to talk with her about current events is like talking to her husband, the attorney.  We have opposite points of view regarding politics.

Today, I told my friend that for once she and I had the same view - there is a scandal regarding the Veteran's Administration and though it has been brewing long before the Obama Administration -  and the Congress provided inadequate funding or oversight, it still lands squarely on the heads of the Democrats in office and in the administration. It's too little too late for the nearly 60,000 service members and families who have not received the timely intake care to which they were entitled. While it is a much more complex organization than intake, and much of it ran with superior quality, the immensity of the fraud and disrespect overshadows the good.

We still disagree on every other political issue.  But we have been friends since we were 17 years of age and didn't have a political point of view.  All the other things we have in common far exceed the broadest political platform differences - and they are opposite points of view.  Neither of us would ever say mean things about the other over our different points of view.  We state our differences, say we remain true to our opinion in spite of our conversation and move on.

Another friend of mine sends me propaganda of the most heinous and lying nature about every breath taken by the current administration, lying propaganda items that have been disproved over and over but keep getting dredged up in the most heinous videos and posters, etc.  I used to dispute the material and send it back.  Now I just delete it.  I like him.  He's a good person and he and his wife are assets to the community.  I feel badly that he believes and passes on that stuff, but I don't judge him poorly in other areas of his life.

The problem with the Internet is that we may take a path in writing that we would not if facing the person over a cup of coffee or in a networking or social group.  We really only know about each other what we have shared, some of us sharing more than others.

My spouse left two wives in both cases to be with someone 15 years younger.  Those two wives were no better or worse than other wives.  He just had a need to be with younger women and no appreciation for the value of long term relationships.  He wasn't evil as my friends said to me as if that would comfort my original "loss."  He was simply a weak man.  I actually helped him buy clothes for the wife because she was 30 years younger, spoke no English, had no decent clothes (from poverty seeking a meal ticket) and he was so happy that she wanted him that I didn't want to rain on his parade but rather keep it marching.  I sent him on his way with a new wardrobe for her and no hate in my heart, just good riddance.

Judging people because a marriage ends is mean-spirited.  Marriage is a very intimate and private relationship that even the two people involved are not always sure about.  The fact that any marriage succeeds is a testament to positive communications and a strong desire to overcome challenges.  Of course, abuse is an entirely different matter.

In fact, today, many young people are not marrying at all.  It's easier to live together with their two dogs than take the chances that many of us took that love would conquer all - which of course it does not.  We jumped in with both feet, abandoned our education and careers to support and pay for his, gave birth to precious children and then woke up.
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 10, 2014 4:33 pm

How many times are you going to reincarnate the bible, Domenic?
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 8:08 am

Shelagh,
I have said all that is required of me. I leave you, and your friends to dance around your Golden calf.
I kick the dust from my feet, and ban myself form your forum.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 8:15 am

Sorry to see him go.  He may have rubbed people the wrong way, including me, but was usually able to handle criticism.  He exibited intelligence is many of his posts. His weakness, in my view, is a stubborn lack of flexibility.
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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 11:53 am

Domenic comes and goes. He'll be back.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 12:15 pm

I enjoyed reading many of his posts.  I did not find his personal attacks very nice.  I think he left because we stated that those attacks were not nice.  I also did not see that anyone personally attacked him as he claimed unless he considers opposing points of view as personal attacks.  His logic and reasoning were questioned and new facts and opinions presented.  That is the material of discourse - facts and opinions that come from many perspectives.  One can remain inflexible but to stay in the debate requires presenting facts to support the inflexible point of view.

I'm pretty inflexible in some of my views also.  We all have our emotional buttons.
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Don Stephens
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 2:58 pm

Now guys have gone and done it. You should be ashamed.  How could you not know there is only one opinion that matters…HIS…everyone else has to be wrong! You picked on that poor defenseless man until his feelings were hurt.  Now he’s going take his ball and go home!


Personally, I’m going to miss him…much the same way I miss dandruff, athlete’s foot and measles.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 3:14 pm

Don Stephens wrote:
Now guys have gone and done it. You should be ashamed.  How could you not know there is only one opinion that matters…HIS…everyone else has to be wrong! You picked on that poor defenseless man until his feelings were hurt.  Now he’s going take his ball and go home!


Personally, I’m going to miss him…much the same way I miss dandruff, athlete’s foot and measles.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Reincarnation   Reincarnation - Page 3 EmptyWed Jun 11, 2014 3:19 pm

But if we all agree, there will be no more forum posts as we will be repeating our own thoughts.
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