Seeking Publisher - Here we go again

Shelagh,

Thanks for the link. That was well worth reading as was the New York Times article he mentioned.

Malcolm

George,

You're right about word of mouth. When it comes down to it, much of what we do comes about because a friend or a co-worker heard about it and called it to our attention.

If an author loves people and loves getting out and making the rounds, then s/he is going to create a continuing word of mouth, especially when--as you note--the book is a good one in the first place.

Malcolm

You know, I was thinking. If a new author stumbles accross this thread, it may turn them away from trying to get published. It wouldn't be fair to assume people should go one route and not the other. I have tried the big houses and yes was turned down. It didn't make my works any less than what they were, good stories. I just didn't have the experience. I kept trying, doing more research and checking who's publishing what better than I was before. Two of my books were accepted by POD publishers and didn't charge me to publisher my work. My books will always be available and will be printed when ordered so they aren't sitting in some warehouse somewhere. A lot of publishers are using this print method now.

I say keep trying and eventually it will happen!

Amber

Hi Amber,

Don't worry about putting off new would-be authors. This is, after all, the Published Authors Forum. LOL!

The points raised on this thread, however, will show aspiring writers and authors how difficult it is to actually sell books. Being published is only the beginning -- the hard work really begins once the book is in print.

Malcolm made some very good comments about established authors such as Grisham and King. The way they write now is not the way they wrote their first novel. John Grisham went the PoD route before he signed with a commercial publisher and his first book was probably more literary fiction than pure fiction.

My advice to anyone who has written a novel would be: write another. If the second book is no better than the first, you won't make it. Tough but true.

~Shelagh

Hi Amber, yes, you have a point there. I'm definitely not against going to publishers first, that's how you learn and you may even find an editor who will take you on. I would encourage all aspiring writers to approach editors at publishing houses.

What I was trying to get across (and I agree, my posts can come across as anti-publishers) is that if you're turned down by everyone, that's not the end of the road. There are still options open to you.

When my second novel is ready, I may send it out to a few publishers with a cover note telling them I'm a published author to see if I get any bites. I know a good few editors by name now and I'm sure some of them will probably remember me. Who knows what may come of it? But even if my book is rejected, that won't be the end of the road for me because I'll still see that book in print and on shelves in folks homes.

That is true. I only have two books published and I'm not going to stop there. I'm sure other writers here agree with their own path. The more books we publish, the easier it gets getting published it just takes time and patience.

I won't give up on the traditional route even if it means taking the rest of my life getting there because there are those other options out there that can build my experience as you stated. For me it just sounded like you didn't think it was worth the trouble of going through it all because to me it is worth it. Seeing a book published by a big house and getting the advance means you made it, it shows someone big has confidence in you and I would love that feeling but I'm not going to pass by other houses who want me to get there either. I just have a higher goal and will get there by taking the steps through smaller goals. I think all writers should try that before giving up on the traditional route. Of course, I will never pay to get a book published but that's me and it doesn't mean that other people shouldn't consider it because it does work. I just don't have the finances to do so, otherwise I might have thought about it lol.

Amber

What some people fail to realise though is if you are accepted by a large publisher and get a huge advance, it doesn't mean you've made it and all your troubles are over.

As I mentioned before, I know authors who are published with large publishers and they continually have to keep proving themselves. Each book has to earn off its advance otherwise the next book has a smaller advance and print run. The pressure is intense and you're only as good as your last book's sales figures.

I am not saying there is one avenue better than the other - there are pros and cons for each avenue, and every writer needs to understand what they can deal with. Do your research and talk to other authors.

I don't think anyone here has said that following the traditional route to publishing is a bad thing. Some of us simply don't want to wait for years and years and still wind up with our manuscripts on our desks gathering dust. And the sad fact is that regardless of how hard you work the chances are that you're going to get older and older without finding an agent or a publisher via that route. Wanting to get a major publishing contract is what most of us hope for and dream of, but it's only being realistic to understand that the odds are way against that happening. That's not me talking, that's the fact of the world of publishing. Sure some make it, that's what keeps the dream alive, and it's also a fact that someone will have to take the place of the guys that are so famous right now, but you have to have a contingency plan. What are you going to do when you've been trying for 20 years and none of your books have been taken yet? Are you simply going to throw them away?

The point some of us are making is that there are options, and some of us chose not to wait. It has nothing to do with giving up, or thinking our books aren't good enough. It has to do with facing the facts. Out of every couple of thousand people who might read this post and who have written a book, the vast majority of them will never be publlished, especially if they wait for a major book deal.

I don't see a huge stack of rejection notices as a badge of honor. To me it just means that you've written something they don't want. You can either keep banging your head against that door, or choose one of the other options.

I hope that all of you that are seeking that deal will find it, but I know that most of you won't. I hope you will figure that out soon enough that you won't become old with nothing to show for it but some dusty manuscripts, some faded dreams, and a pile of rejections slips.

I say you should try to sign a major deal, because it's what everyone dreams of, but know when to say enough is enough and move on with your life and your writing.

You know Don, I think you've encapsulated it perfectly there. But don't write off getting a major publisher interested in your book just because you've gone the PoD route. I think it enhances your chances.

I think we should publish this thread! LOL!

Thanks guys. I think everyone should try to get the very best contract they can find. Searching for an agent and a publisher is the old established route to do that, and signing a major deal is the best way to get your book out there and to make some good money. I have been a published and recorded song writer for many years, and only decided to take a shot at publishing a couple of manuscripts I had written a couple of years ago.

I did a lot of research, and was not very happy with what I learned. Many stories are out there about famous authors who got turned down time after time but persevered and finally landed that big deal, Unfortunately, I think that sends out the message that all one has to do is follow that same path and in the end all will be sweetness and light. What many people over look is the fact, and it is a fact, that the vast majority of the people who write manuscripts and think that this is the only way to get published will never find that magic deal. Facts are facts and we can overlook them if we will, but it doesn't change anything. Only one new author out of thousands will ever land a major deal, and the ones that go on to become the famous household words are even fewer.

I've had somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 songs recorded. I've had two that made the top 40 charts, and I've made some pretty good money off them. That was using every inside angle I knew from years in the business, and while 100 may sound pretty good, it pales when you understand that I've written some 4,000. The song business is very much dog eat dog, and the guys at the top always get the most cuts and make the most money. It's almost impossible for a new writer to actually have any success. Knowing that, I was pretty sure that I had a very slim chance of getting a book published in the traditional manner. I am soon to be 67 years old, and I didn't want to sit around until I was 80 searching for an agent and a publisher. I chose the publisher I have, after a lot of consideration, and knew going in how they operated. Higher prices, not in book stores, not a lot of promotion, and I still chose to use them. I had a built in market in that my book was about some ancestors of mine that many people had heard of, and many were interested in. The story has been told for two hundred years, and I knew there was a market for it. Not only that but I had signed a movie contract on the manuscript in 1994 or 95, so I knew the idea was sound. The movie was never made, but I finished the book and began looking to see what options were available. I went the way I did because I knew I could get the book out there, I could get my version of the Harpe story told, and there was always the chance for a movie. Still is, by the way.

Would I like to get an agent and sign my next book with a major publisher? Of course I would. I still know, however, that it might not happen, and I want to get my stories in the hands of readers while I can still understand what they are saying when the email me. I do have a bite with a middle sized publisher on the book that I will finish this spring, so there's still hope. In the meantime, I have the Redneck Riviera series on Amazon that is ready to put into paper back, I have the StormChilde book that is ready, and I have a book of memoirs that I will use Lulu or Createspace to publish this spring. I know I have a reader base for that, because I've been letting some folks in my home town read some of the stories, and while I'd like to make some money, this book really was written for my friends.

Dreams are wonderful things to have, but hold them too closely or too long and they will eventually strangle you. Dreams sometimes die, and knowing when to give them wings is something we have to learn.

You have to know when to let a dream fly away. But don't despair, our human hearts will always allow another one to fly in.

You know Don, it has also taken a long time to find a forum where a group of writers from different backgrounds can discuss the pitfalls of PoD publishing in a civilised manner.

It usually leads to a heated debate and lost tempers. We've come a long way haven't we?

I found this quite some time ago and posted it on one of the boards on the Book Place Network:

Quote :

Some fiction authors do become Mega-Name Authors (note the initial-caps). These authors include Tom Clancy, Steven King, Danielle Steele, and John Grisham. They are the exceptions. Most published authors do not make enough money to support themselves. Part of this is because one novel does not usually make a career, but provides only a single advance/royalty-income of $3,000 to $10,000. Most authors must create and sustain a career in order to bring in enough money to support themselves.

You can read the rest of What Are the Chances of Becoming a Successful Author? here:

http://www.tarakharper.com/faq_pub.htm#successful

Yes, Shelagh, it's nice to have a place to post. In the past there have been one or two (or more) people who wanted to shove their ideas down everyone's throat, and they always implied that any of us who were self published or published with one particular publisher were not as smart as they were and our books weren't as well written.

I will defend my work and whoever I am published with, and I will do it in a like manner to those who post such nonsense. I am very outspoken, and so far in the past two years I haven't seen any person who has done enough to say anything about what someone else has written.

There are a lot of bashers out there, and the fact is that I won't let them bash me. I tend to bash back, and for the most part I am better at it than they are.

Hopefully this will remain a place where ideas and information can be exchanged without any of the bashing that crowd loves so much.

People looking down their nose at small press authors is somethign I've had to deal with for years.

I still get asked, when will your book be Borders, etc, sigh. I tell them you can order my book from anywhere, any shop, any library.

I think I will have to defend myself for years to come, but I don't mind, because there are not many people who can say they have had a dream and see it come true.

This has been an enjoyable thread to read with a great diversity of views and experiences.

When I told a close friend of mine that I had another manuscript ready to send out, she lent me her copy of a no-nonsense book called "78 Reasons Why Your Book May Never be Published & 14 Reasons Why it Just Might" by Pat Walsh. She urged me to read it before I began sending anything out the door.

Walsh rights terse prose filled with dry humor about the reality of mainstream publishing and how it works. As the founding editor of a publishing company, he's been around the block a few times and I think all of us who are looking forward to publication can learn from his experience even if we don't like every point he makes.

At 192 pages, the book is a fast read, something that can be read over the weekend and then when Monday rolls around we'll be a little wiser even if we conclude we're right for doing what we're already doing.

The bottom line for me is that while I will never use a POD publisher again, I'm not starting out on the handfull of New York houses that control 80% of the market. Those, as many point out, are usually only interested in books that will sell no less than 50,000 copies. Possible? Sure, but I don't want to spend 5 years trying to start out in JK Rowling's world.

If I can find a small press that does some promotion, including sending out gallies to pre-publication reviewers and can get the book out the door within 12 months, then I might find a very nice home there.

Malcolm

The comments provided by all contributors on this thread are valuable. It seems to have touched some sensitive spots in all of us. It is refreshing to read honest opinions without prejudice.

I'm still learning about the publishing business. There has never been a easy way to riches except perhaps by inheritance. I've learned that life is a perpetual struggle and that change is a constant. And unless we're prepared to adapt to change, we are lost. As has been pointed out, there is more than one way to get where we want to go and learning the options is a big help.

Keep sharing. What you put out will come back.

Abe

Saw this article in Publishers Weekly and thought it interesting.
Don't forget there is a difference between POD and vanity publishing. There is also a difference on the different POD avenues, too.

Here is part of it. To read the entire article go to:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6522044.html

POD Heads to the Mainstream
In the future, there will be no warehouses, and books will never go out
of print
by Calvin Reid -- Publishers Weekly, 1/14/2008

Walking into Lightning Source's sprawling plant just outside of
Nashville, Tenn., CEO J. Kirby Best recites a list of print-on-demand
milestones: Lightning Source has grown from three employees in 1997 to
more than 500 today; the company digitally scans about 2,000 books a
week and prints 1.2 million books a month. “It took us seven years to
print 10 million books,” says Best as we stroll through the
159,000-sq.-ft. building. “This year we published 10 million books in
the first 11 months.”

Welcome to LaVergne, Tenn., headquarters of Lightning Source and the
center of the POD universe. A subsidiary of Ingram Industries and sister
company to Ingram Book Group, Lightning Source was founded in 1997 and
over the past 10 years has grown into the largest of about a dozen
companies—among them BookMobile, IBT, BookSurge and Bridgeport National
Bindery—offering a wide range of POD services. As Lightning Source
prepares to mark its 10th anniversary, the use of POD technology
continues to grow and transform the economics of book publishing.

For years, print-on-demand has held out the promise of a new business
model. Rather than print thousands of copies of a book and then work
frantically to sell them, POD stands the usual publishing model on its
head. POD offers publishers the possibility of selling a book before it
is printed and then delivering it directly to a consumer, to a store or
to a publisher's warehouse. As the differences in the quality between
POD and conventional offset printing continue to shrink—“it's getting
damn close to offset,” says Best—publishers are taking a good long look
at the potential of POD technology to eliminate warehousing entirely and
manage their supply chain as never before.

Brilliant article Anne. Here are the main reasons I decided to go PoD.

I believe, after doing much research, that PoD is the future of book publishing. I can see all publishers, even the major houses, using nothing but PoD in a few short years. There is no risk to them as there are no stocks piled up in warehouses to shift.

It is this stock that has made publishing houses so wary of signing new authors. They do not want pallets of unsold books sitting in warehouses. Now they can do it without risk (once the die hards running the companies who resist change get their heads around the concept).

You keep the copyright to your work which means you still have all your publishing and movie rights.

Most conventional publishers are now cherry picking from PoD books. It is easy for them to offer contracts to new authors whose books they can see have already been successful. This is a fast growing trend.

It's low cost and can even be free, though I chose to pay because I wanted my book in hardback with a good quality printed dust jacket.

Books never go out of print. In 10 years time if anyone wants my book they can get it.

And don't forget this one - I'm now a published author with a hardback sitting on his bookshelf! That in itself is priceless.

If I want to go the traditional route, I still can though instead of sending a manuscript I would send a copy of my book.

Lots of good information here, everyone. And I must agree that it is very refreshing to not have a bunch of bashing going back and forth. Everyone has different ideas, and the sharing going on here may open doors to someone (like me) that they would not have otherwise considered.

There is so very much that I do not know. Rejection slips? I have none. Not because I am an exceptionel writer, but because the first house I submitted to said yes. I did not know where to reach the big boys. For myself, I guess the route I chose was the right one for me at the time. Will I go with them for my next one? I don't know, but you all have offered up some very good options and ideas.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you--one and all.