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 What An Agent Wants

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alj
Carol Troestler
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Carol Troestler
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 8:56 pm

Brenda Hill wrote:
Alice wrote:
cturkel,

At last a meeting of the minds. The PA authors would like to be read also.
If you desire to be read, please point us to what you have written.

We will gladly oblige you.

Thanks!

There you go again, using the royal 'we.' Please remember you do not speak for everyone on this forum.

Brenda, I think there are enough of us to be "we." I am a PA author as are many others, and I believe we all want to be read. I am not ashamed of my book, and I don't think others are. We'd love more people to read our books, and I think I can safely say that.

I think by whatever means the authors have been published here, they want to be read.

I don't think anyone here should be ashamed of what they have written. If you write something and have it published, than why hide it as cturkel did?

Carol
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:04 pm

Brenda Hill wrote:
alj wrote:
I don't understand Mr. Macdonald's comment. What are PA "believers," exactly? What does he mean by "slander..against "bashers"? Do these "believers" all believe that Mr. Macdonald and his cohorts write in order to get rich? How does he know that?

That statement is so full of assumptions that I can't make any sense of it.

Ann

Perhaps if you read it again, slowly, it might help.

Ann is very intelligent--if she cannot understand a statement, it is because the statement lacks clarity.

Do not demean her!

Interpet the statement.

Thanks.
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Brenda Hill
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:05 pm

Yes, I'm sure most of us want our books to be read, Carol.

Some authors on this forum and others choose not to reveal themselves, and that's their right. I read their posts and I don't require a life history to accept or reject what they have to say.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:14 pm

Most civilized folks, when past infancy, learn to be inclusive when they speak.

As Carol noted, I was speaking on behalf of others here also.

I am beyond the "me" stage.
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:16 pm

Brenda Hill wrote:
Yes, I'm sure most of us want our books to be read, Carol.

Some authors on this forum and others choose not to reveal themselves, and that's their right. I read their posts and I don't require a life history to accept or reject what they have to say.

Not everyone is as accepting as you are.

Aanalyze yourself--the only people you want to accept are those you can teach.

You reject Ann because she is a teacher. Think about that for awhile.


Last edited by Alice on Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Carol Troestler
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:18 pm

Brenda,

You've got to admit, that all the times cturkel has criticized many of us, even here calling PA authors "kool-aid drinkers," when he was in reality self-published, that this was more than just keeping his history private.

And I could say it was "the pot calling the kettle black" but I'm not even sure that is an appropriate idiom for this situation. I imagine many others criticizing PA authors are also self-published, and not with traditional publishers with big advances and royalties.

I put a lot of value on honesty and truth, and I thought the edited comment was right on and what we all should be talking about in the first place, rather than going on and on over who is published by whom.

Carol
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Brenda Hill
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:30 pm

Yes, it is right on.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:36 pm

Back to We, Brenda,

You wanted to hear JCT lecture about publishing and printing on the Author's Society

You didn't care what he wrote.

We, E.Don, Dick, Carol and Ann got tired of it.

How strange.

Now you are doing the same thing here.

Why don't you like Mel's forum?
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 9:40 pm

Brenda Hill wrote:
Yes, it is right on.

Ah ha--Thank you. My respect for you has risen.
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Brenda Hill
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 10:16 pm

Here’s another agent who shares information. She’s active at conferences and loyal to her clients. It’s rumored that she so believed in one of her clients that she kept him for ten years trying to sell his manuscript. Can’t remember if it finally sold or not, but I thought her attitude was great.

That’s a rarity, even when I heard it years ago.


http://www.larsen-pomada.com/lp/pages.cfm?ID=2
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 10:24 pm

How about a link to your agent?
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 10:34 pm

cc


Last edited by domenic Pappalardo on Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brenda Hill
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 12, 2009 10:37 pm

True, Domenic. She and her associate even began their own conference in San Francisco and she attends others as well. Busy lady.
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 1:44 am

"Very, very few people write in order to get rich. Despite the common slander by PA Believers against "bashers," mostly we just want to be read. -- James Macdonald"

As Lane might point out, two verys is two too many. "Few people write in order to get rich" would suffice.

I presume Uncle Jim meant libel and not slander. Although, one never knows, maybe he knows some "PA Believers" and talks to them on a regular basis and thus is aware of the things they say.

"PA Believers" seems an odd term. What is there to believe in? That PA exists? I am almost certain it does; it isn't a figment of my imagination. Maybe he means "Followers" rather than "Believers" -- I can see the similarity. Either way, I don't know many, if any.

"Bashers" -- Ah, yes, the bashers. They are the troublemakers of this world:

“Ah, the Troublemakers. There are troublemakers all over the world.
They interfere because they lead such dull lives. Everybody else seems to enjoy
a much more interesting life than they do. I know it is difficult to
understand. You are very young and this is all very new and unpleasant for
you.”

“But why do they tell lies? Why do people believe their lies?”

“The good people in the world do not believe everything they hear. They
keep an open mind. Time has a way of bringing the truth out into the open.
Often this takes a long time—sometimes it takes years before all the truth is
known. Eventually, the liars tell too many lies. They tie themselves up in knots
as the truth unravels itself.”

“Are the people who believe lies bad people?”

“No,” Mr. Spaceman said reassuringly, “they are easily led. They are
not ‘bad people.’ One way they might feel superior is to believe that someone
else is worse than they are. It means they can look down on someone who is more
able than they are. It is easier for these people to build themselves up by
putting someone else down.”

“Will they ever lose interest in me?” Emmelisa asked.

“Oh no! They are not interested in you at all. They are interested in
themselves. You are being used to draw attention to them. They are
attention-seekers of the very worst kind. They have very little talent or
ability so they have to force the world to notice them. People see through them
but are amused and want to use the opportunity to join in the ‘fun’ to liven up
their dreary lives.”

“They are not interested in me?” Emmelisa said, wide-eyed in amazement.
“It’s me who isn’t interested in them!”

“That is perfectly true. They are competing with you but you have
already won! If you were as dull and stupid as they are, they would not waste
their free time on you. They would simply pick on you and taunt you if they
crossed your path—especially in front of others in order to boost their own
egos.

“This is typical childhood bullying. It goes on throughout life and
does not end in the school playground. Often the victim is timid and unable to
stand up to the bullies. Unfortunately, people who could help prefer not to
become involved.

“But you are not afraid. You are a survivor and a winner but you are
finding life difficult. I am here to help you through this difficult phase.”

“How am I a winner? And how long will this last?”

“You are a winner because, although they are only interested in
themselves, they envy you. They follow you. This proves that you
must be much more attractive than they are. After all, no one is following them
around.”

“Do I have to wait years for them to stop following me?” Emmelisa was
close to tears at the very thought.

“What would you prefer to do?”

“Do I have a choice?” she asked unbelievingly.

“Everybody has a choice. You are the master of your own destiny.

You can decide. You can be miserable while you wait for people to learn
the truth. Or, you can make the Troublemakers miserable by being happy. Ignore
the lies. Learn how to tolerate the interference and start fulfilling your
ambitions. You do have ambitions, don’t you?”

“Ambitions,” Emmelisa repeated the word, “ambitions. Yes…I suppose so.”

“You do not sound very sure. Do you have anything planned for the
future?”

“No,” Emmelisa replied.

“You thought this computer might help you?”

“Yes. I thought maybe I could find something that would make me feel
better.”

“Like a bottle of medicine?” Mr. Spaceman suggested. “There are no
magic potions for feeling happy or knowing what you want out of life. You have
to work at being happy.”

“It’s too hard,” Emmelisa said despondently.

“Now, Emmelisa,” Mr. Spaceman said sternly, “you are giving up before
you have even tried.”

“No. It’s just that you asked me if I had planned anything. I don’t
know how to plan things.”

“Well, perhaps that is the question you should ask.”

“What?” Emmelisa thought aloud before the question came rushing into
her mind.

“I know the question. The question is—How do I plan my future?”

“Well done!” Mr. Spaceman beamed with a smile wide enough to fill the
screen.

“Well,” Emmelisa said with slight irritation at this smug response,
“what’s the answer?”

“The answer is inside this computer. You must find the file ‘My Future
Life’ that your father stored in the memory of this computer before he died.”

The screen started to flicker as Mr. A. Leon Spaceman said, “Bye for
now, Emmelisa. Remember, you are the master of your own destiny.”

Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine, Chapter Nine, Questions and Answers
©️ 2005 by Shelagh Watkins.
All rights reserved.


So, what are we left with?

"mostly we just want to be read." Quite right, Jim.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 5:22 am

I had no problem with the "mostly we just want to be read" part. I was referring to the full quote, especially the assumptions in the "believers" and "bashers" comment. Shelagh addressed them in her post. The passage from Mr. Planemaker sums it up quite well.

Ann
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Carol Troestler
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 5:55 am

Thanks Shelagh.

That summed it up quite well.

Ann, the believers, bashers and slander part needs to be eliminated.

They are meaningless.

Carol
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Dick Stodghill
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 6:18 am

What is the fuss all about? Some jerk who is ashamed of what he has written and tries to keep it a secret returns to stir the pot again and people respond. Why?
James Macdonald is an intelligent man, one I respect, but like everyone else he occasionally makes a statement that would have been better if shortened. So what?
What business is it of anyone what another person chooses to do with their work? I have read intelligent remarks on latrine walls. I have read hilarious remarks on those same walls but will refrain from quoting them here. That was what the writers chose to do with their work. Should I have told them they should have sent their stuff to Random House rather than the latrine wall? It was their choice, not mine, not anyone else's.
I'd prefer that all the stories I write are published by Hitchcock or Queen because they pay the most money. Some have ended up in Mike Shayne, Louis L'amour, Hardboiled, Thrilling Detective, Amazon Shorts. So what? Is it anyone's business other than my own? At the same time what others do with their work is not my business.
If someone has submitted work to a publisher and is happy, fine. If they are sad, fine. In either case no one has a right to tell them what they should have done unless asked for their opinion. Many of those same people, whether happy or sad, will submit elsewhere and that's their business and it's fine.
Some people with nothing better to do with their time like to play with semantics and complain that a publisher is a printer or whatever. Who cares? Some publishers today aren't even printers. So what?
If anyone knows of a single person who has made money by spending time on any of the above subjects, please let me know so I can get a piece of the action.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 6:29 am

Well said, Dick. "Birds of a feather flock together" can be seen on various subjects. Those with a positive outlook support each other as do those with a negative disposition. Another quote would be: "Misery likes company."
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 7:51 am

Dick,

The goal is no longer money. After being chided and lectured for "settling" wth PA, which I did because I wished to be read--I find that cturkel and Jim have the same goal.

Shocking really--if I wished to be published via a skywriter it is no ones business but mine.


Abe,

There is no misery here--only joy and jubilation at uncovering a fraudster.
I will take it that we are the "postive" folks
after all you are here.

Shelagh , Carol and Ann--well said!
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 10:26 am

Dick Stodghill wrote:
James Macdonald is an intelligent man, one I respect, but like everyone else he occasionally makes a statement that would have been better if shortened. So what?

Some people with nothing better to do with their time like to play with semantics and complain that a publisher is a printer or whatever. Who cares?
Jim Macdonald cares and he likes to play with semantics. I was banned from AW in 2006 (for six months). Immediately after I was banned, Jim challenged me to a debate. However, I wasn't allowed to debate on the AW forum. Here's the challenge:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26537&page=25#602

Since I was not allowed onto AW, I suggested that the debate should take place on my local town forum, Leyland Town Forum. Jim registered and said that he hadn't -- but he's still a member, though he hasn't made a single post. This is the post he made about trying to join the forum:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26537&page=27#665

I set up a forum for the debate and Jim told everyone that they could follow the debate here:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26537&page=28#694

This is the actual debate that took place February 18th - 27th 2006:

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Debate/index.php?showtopic=4

The debate was all about semantics. Jim Macdonald was and is obsessed with proving that PA is a vanity press. He claims to have won the debate but he's still posting the same old same old over on AW. If you win, that should be the end of the debate, shouldn't it? Why say more?
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 10:44 am

I get so tired reading threads where writers are trying to convince others that their way is best.

I am a firm believer in the philosophy that everything happens for a reason, in its own season.

If it works for you, go for it. Those who go the PA route and are happy with it, good for them. Those who don't feel it worked out for them, move on. Writers like Brenda who strive for the NYC publisher should go for it. It is right for her. Perhaps not for the rest of us. Some write for money. Some for pleasure. Some just have to write. All of this is okay.

Thank God we are not all of the same mind. I am glad for the diversity on this board. I just don't like the turn it takes sometimes. The energy becomes mean and nasty. Why can't we just post and allow each of us to have our own opinions without trying to bash them, or change them.

I want to make money with my book, but that wasn't the reason I wrote it. I wanted a NYC publisher, but I was smart enough to know that I don't have the time it takes to get one, even if I could. I have done the best I could. That is all any of us should expect of ourselves or anyone else on this forum.

I don't like being lumped into a category and there are so many generalizations on these threads doing just that. Comments have been made that small publishers do such and such. I am a small publisher and I don't fit half of the negative things that has been written about them. I don't think lumping PA authors, Lulu authors, small published authors, and etc. into groups is advisable or right. Each person is an individual and what works for them might not work for you. I don't think we take that into consideration as much as we should on this forum. It seems it is my way or the highway. Such narrow thinking.

I have been reluctant to post here anymore. I feel if I make a typographical mistake and don't catch it because I don't read back what I wrote, I will get criticized for it. I don't have the time to go back over it. I type, hit send, and that is it. God forbid I should put in the wrong punctuation or misspell a word. There appears to be no leeway on this forum and no compassion. Just arguing. Yes, I know that last statement was not a complete sentence. See, I felt I had to justify that and I shouldn't have to feel that way.

There are personality conflicts in almost every group. Can't we get over them? Can't we say, "live and let live?" Can't we voice our opinions without coming unglued because someone said something differently than we did? Can't we agree to disagree without striking out?
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 10:56 am

Hi Sue,

It is the controversial threads that keep the forum alive. When everyone agrees, forums stagnate.

If any of the members here followed the debate, you can read the responses to the debate on the NEPAT overflow thread here (there are pages and pages of posts!):

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26568&page=147#3666
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 11:16 am

Good debate, Shelagh. You won hands down.

Idea--anyone offended by a thread or a person can opt to not read or respond.

We choose our own destiny.

Anyone trying to tell me off will be told off in return.

When my friends are right, I will defend them as well.

Everyone has feelings--they are all different. We are all entitled to feel as we wish.


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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 11:46 am

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Alice. My point was that we shouldn't have to defend or tell off in return.

I agree, Shelagh, that debates are good for the forum. However, they aren't debates, usually. They are out and out attacks. That is what I am talking about. There is a fine line between them. The people on this forum overstep that line all the time in the name of debate.

I have entered into some of these debates when I was first on the board. I enjoyed them. We shared our individual differences without slitting someone's throat. Then they developed into something negative. Now it is who can best who. (or is that whom?)

I can see where you want the debating to bring up the ratings, Shelagh. I just can't understand a person who would enjoy those ratings when they are achieved by hurting others.
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PostSubject: Re: What An Agent Wants   What An Agent Wants - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 13, 2009 11:51 am

Sue,

No one has to tell anyone off--they choose to.

Anyone choosing to tell my friends or me off, can expect a response.

I have zero tolerance for bullying.


Last edited by Alice on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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