Is it wrong?

domenic Pappalardo wrote:

dtpollard wrote:

We have a modern day exaple of desperation os society breaking down in full public view with Hurricane katrina in New Orleans. I have been to some of the areas where the so called looting took place when people raided stores for food. Sure there were some opportunists taking other merchandise, but folks taking food to eat were lumped in with criminals. Everything in those stores was going to spoil and stranded people need food to survive after rightly expecting massive help from government resources since major interstate highways go through the heart of the city.

If we every saw a mass breakdown of society and what desperation will drive people to do, we had it there.

www.DTPollard.com

www.TARPTownusa.us

Under this theory, why not steal money from old people, their going to die anyway, and not spend it all.

A christian would not steal to save their life. Or, perhaps God is wrong.
If we make up or own rules , then there are no rules.

I remember many years ago, an out of work black man found a sack of money. He turned it over to the police...The newspapers and radio stations called him a fool. If it had been your money, would you have called him a fool? When is stealing justified? What kind of people have we become to say it's okay to steal?

I thought you were gone. Anyway, the leap of logic to equate stealing from old people to getting food from stores that are flooded, cut off from resupply and won't reopen for months, if ever due to flood damage, is laughable. Most people watched from the comfort of their homes as people waded in toxic water and sweltering heat for days without proper food or water.

Let me tell you something, I think our orderly society would break down in less than 30 days if a severe food shortage came about. Look at what happens when Wal-Mart runs a holiday special, people foght and even got trampled to death and others continued to shop around the injured. Not too long ago copper was being stripped from light poles and ac units and sold so that people could sell it to buy gas. Catalytic converter were being stolen from parked cars for the same reason. People will defauld to survival mode very quicky if things get tough.

I agree dt...that is the problem. People will turn to doing wrong if they can't get what they want or need. Think about that. Why teach a child the difference between right and wrong? Why not teach them to steal if they want or need something, even food.

"Now listen son. If you are hungry...steal."

Your argument is on the wrong side of the fence my friend. Follow Gods word. (unless times are life threatening, then discard them for your own.)
There is a debate: "Who is the bad guy, Satan or God?" Do you think we cast our vote by our actions?

You are not stupid, Domenic, so why say such stupid things? You can work out the answers to your questions with the minimum of thought.

Shelagh wrote:

You are not stupid, Domenic, so why say such stupid things? You can work out the answers to your questions with the minimum of thought.

Forgive me. On some things I am slow to reason. What was it I said that was off tone?

Extreme circumstances lead toextreme solutions

Dt,
I agree with you.
Both hypothetical questions I posed are in fact real situations. The problem with both is that we look at them based on our own environment. Saying that we would simply find another home instead of fighting for the one that was stolen from us implies that we have means to do so. If your home, your land, was your means of survival, the outlook takes on a different meaning. Being displaced with no place to go, with no means for survival is desperate. In cases where the UN provides a tent, some warm blankets and intermittent food, that is still a desperate situation. When these people take up arms to retaliate, they are labeled as terrorists.
We have much to learn. As bad as it may be at times, we are still a long way from the plight of some. With the American mentality, DT's prediction would be dead on. Desperation changes everything. The dangerous part is that most anyone in America can possess a gun, and they would use it. That's when all the cliches of being nice to one another take a backseat. Survival, combined with the need for retaliation, know no bounds. The resolve for retribution doesn't diminish with time. So what is justice? Does it exist?

I believe it was Carol who brought up Les Miserables earlier on this thread. She told about Jean Valjean being imprisoned for stealing a loaf of bread. He compounded his guilt years later by escaping. The police inspector, Javert, is a righteous man who is convinced that wrong is wrong and spends his life tracking down Valjean to make him pay. Near the end of the story, Valjean saves Javert's life. When Javert realizes that he has spent his entire life pursuing an invalid cause, he commits suicide. He cannot bear living in a world with no simple answers.

In New Orleans, after Katrina, the government agencies were not getting basic supplies to the survivors. How or why was irrelevant to the situation. People were starving. Food was spoiling in deserted stores which had no electrical power. Some very brave (IMHO) individuals took the responsibility of confiscating food from those stores. It was not wrong, under those circimstances, to do so.

Ann

Ann,

Very well said!

Domenic,

Can you prove where you parents got your bread for breakfast. I doubt they baked it in a tent.

domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Shelagh wrote:

You are not stupid, Domenic, so why say such stupid things? You can work out the answers to your questions with the minimum of thought.

Forgive me. On some things I am slow to reason. What was it I said that was off tone?

Domenic,

If you were in a boat with your young son and he fell into the water and could not swim, you would jump into the water to save him. If there was a sign that said "No swimming allowed" you would ignore it and rescue your son. No father would say, "Sorry son, you'll just have to drown because a sign over there says swimming isn't allowed."

No, this does not mean that children should be taught to ignore public warning signs.

Very good point, Shelagh!

Shelagh wrote:

domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Shelagh wrote:

You are not stupid, Domenic, so why say such stupid things? You can work out the answers to your questions with the minimum of thought.

Forgive me. On some things I am slow to reason. What was it I said that was off tone?

Domenic,

If you were in a boat with your young son and he fell into the water and could not swim, you would jump into the water to save him. If there was a sign that said "No swimming allowed" you would ignore it and rescue your son. No father would say, "Sorry son, you'll just have to drown because a sign over there says swimming isn't allowed."

No, this does not mean that children should be taught to ignore public warning signs.

Shelagh,
Jumping into water where there was a sign that read, "No swimming allowed" is not stealing.
You are not stupid, Shelagh, so why say such (XXXXXX) things? You can work out the answer to your question with a minimum of though.

Domenic, if you are going to be a literalist, you can't pick and choose where or when. You can't decide which laws are OK to break and which are not.

Ann

Domenic

It is disobeyiing. How far was your tent pitched from a bakery?

Just maybe your folks knicked bread for your breakfast and never told you.

Your answer please

One of the questions I pose in my new book TARP Town U S A is "Where are the 7 + million unemployed Americans who have lost their jobs since the recession started". It's hard to find actual video coverage and one-on-one news stories on them. Some of these folks have been unemployed over a year, people are in shelters, with relatives, tent cities or who knows where. You know that there is some despair setting in at some level. I drew several conclusions about why the real raw story is almost a poison pill for national televison media exposure because of the effect it would have on the national mood. Spending is what will help pull us out of this, but the gut wrenching reality of what is blocked by a virtual media wall would chill the public's motivation to consume.

I think there is a real fear of how society holds up if this gets much worse.

I can’t believe I’m in a conversation where everyone believes its okay to steal if times get bad.
There are many who believe there are other life forms in outer space, and perhaps someday they will come here. I think the people of this earth should build a giant sign and stick it at the North Pole as a warning to them.
“Greetings. We the people of earth are good people. We believe in a God. We follow his laws…unless we can’t get what we need to sustain life. So watch where you land.”

And yes...I have know hunger. I have known homelessness. I have known sickness. I have know mistreatment. I have even known war.

dt, there are about 10% out of work. Between 1929-1941 there were 25%
This generation won't be able to stand the test. They can't hold their mud.

Domenic,

Throwing my comment back at me shows a lack of originality -- not a good thing in a writer. The philosophical point Abe is trying to discuss seems to be lost on you. The title of the thread is "Is it wrong?" and the question posed on the first post was, indeed, about stealing, but the thread has moved on since then. You are still reasoning about the rights and wrongs of stealing while the topic has moved to discussing the rights and wrongs of getting back something that has been stolen from you (your home, your land, your livelihood).

Questions about whether or not children should be taught right from wrong on the basis that, under life threatening circumstances, people break the law are just plain daft.

I am not looking down on those who would steal to save life. I am just not counting myself in that number. If that is daft, or stupid...then that is what I am.

I 'll tell you what --if you are starving, drop by my house I will give you apple pie.

domenic Pappalardo wrote:

I am not looking down on those who would steal to save life. I am just not counting myself in that number. If that is daft, or stupid...then that is what I am.

Domenic, you believe in a God. I think that's really sweet and very cool. That is the kind of advice I would give to my child: don't steal if you don't have to. I guess that makes me a softy, huh?

Remember what Jesus said. If a man slaps you on your left cheek, offer him your right... well, maybe I wouldn't quite go that far...

We all chop our own wood. Here are a few things on stealing. Of course people will believe, and do what they will.

www.christians.org/command/com08.html

You are incorrigible.

Many thing are wrong in the world and I have done many wrong in my life. I would not say I was bad or evil because of my past for I do try to live an honest life as well as be true to what I see as just. Yet as a child I did take food that was not mine, I am not proud or ashamed of it as it is the facts. I also know that I would do all I can not to let my family feel the hunger I felt; luckily I have never needed to worry about that and hope I never will. Everyone is different though which is lucky for us or the world would be a very bleak, dull place.