Prewar Europe

Im working on another work of literary adventure set in Europe in the late 1930s. Trouble is, it is a hard thing to set exactly.

I mean, with the depression going on, how poor was Western Europe? Were they as broke as us then? Was there an air of rundown despair?

I watch movies like the Poirot series, and things look pretty dapper and neat. Where is the truth? What would pre-war europe have looked like? I cant tell much from old black and whites.

What d'ya think? How should I set the scenes with regards to poverty in Holland or France in 1938?

Dick, you were there during the war, so things had suffered from that. But what could you tell that it had been like before the shooting started?

Remember, Richard, that while the depression was still going on in the late 1930s, it was nothing at all like 1930-32. Life was pretty good for most people even though they had little by today's standards. The general feeling was that the depression was a thing of the past and conditions were steadily improving.
Because of war production - planes, tanks, big guns - Germany was doing better than most countries. People were on a real nationalistic high.
In France, England and the Low Countries there was serious concern about the threat of Hitler and what seemed to be the approach of war.
If I were writing about Europe in that period I wouldn't give much thought to the lingering effects of the depression. The possibility of yet another war hung over the continent, but I believe you would find the people went about their daily lives pretty much as usual.
I don't know how much of Hitler's ranting was shown in Europe, but he was in the newsreels and on early morning shortwave radio almost constantly in America. Scenes of the huge Nazi rallies and soldiers marching were commonplace. I'm sure some of that must have been familiar in Europe.

There was mass unemployment but that wasn't something new. After the Great War there was a period where there was great proserity, greater than had been seen before that time. So when the crash happened in 1929, the resulting hardships it caused were made harder because of the years of boom. By the late thirties though the world was moving out of the recession as more money was being spent by governments on arms, as they saw the need to be prepared for the coming conflict that seemed the world was doomed to repeat. In 1938 Neville Chamberlin averted the coming war or so he thought and for a year Europe as well as Britian breathed easier. There was hardships throught the thirties yet they were not as bad as they had been in the past, as a growing effort had been made to deal with the social problems that the poor suffered from. Hope this helps you a bit.

There are books about that. Novels you can't use, but there are histories that will give you the answers you need.
Remember, you said Europe. That means you need to research the countries involved with your story. Not every country is or was the same.

Yes, Germany for instance was one of the few countries that weathered the Wall Street Crash better than others. Much of that was, not as most would think, down to the Weirmar Republic. They began the hard task of rebuilding Germany after the early 20's with its hyper inflation. They set out the programme of road building that Hilter claimed was the work of his party, though the Nasi's mearly completed what the Weirmar government had started. Though the year between 29 and 33 were a turning point as different people looked for power in an uncertain political situation.

I am surprised that Hitler was on the radio and news so much in America. What did the regular people think of him? Was he somebody that was taken seriously, or just as a joke?

My grandfather, I'm told, called him, "That crazy paperhanger." He was concerned that people didn't take him seriously enough. But then his mother-in-law's half brother (my grandfather's - not Hitler's) questioned all the concern, saying he didn't believe in Germany, anyway, and until my grandfather had actually been there and seen it, he insisted, "just don't talk to me about it."

Ann

But then, my deep East Texas ancestors weren't exactly part of mainstream America. Ask Dick.

Ann

There were some who saw him in a good light because of all the progress that Germany had made compared to Britain. Still most just followed what the papers had to say good or bad. By the late thirties he was seen as a threat. In France though he was seen as dangerous earlier, as early 36 when he crossed the Rhine. The French wanted to take action against him then but the government in Westminster wasn't prepared for war and didn't see it like their ally.

Hitler was taken quite seriously where I was in Ohio. A lot of boys my age figured we were going to fight the same war our fathers had fought. We were right.
Many Americans of German descent supported him. Look up the German-American Bund and Fritz Kuhn. Many Germans came to America when the huge inflation hit Germany in 1923. Some of those who were boys at the time returned to Germany after Hitler came to power in order to share the excitement. I ran up against a couple while in combat. One who joined the SS was from Brooklyn, another from North Carolina.
During the summer of 1945 I spent a lot of time with two Belgian families. They had been quite concerned that Germany would invade their country again. It happened, of course, and they had four very uncomfortable years of occupation. Some of the Germans treated them decently, many did not. That was especially true of the SS. One of the "games" the SS men played while riding in trucks was to shoot near Belgian children along the road and see how close they could come. Sometimes they came too close.

Dick, those SS goons were the lowest forms of humanity. I thank you guys for taking care of that business for us. I wouldnt want guys like them around in my neck of the woods shooting at my kids! You did us all a huge service in shutting them down for good!

That Belgiam family that you stayed with; can you tell me more about that? What was the house like, what had the breadwinner done before the war. etc?

As for the march to war in America...Did families gather around the radios and listen to the talk programs about Hitler, or was the coverage of him just newsreels and a few soundbites on the radio from time to time? Were there radio talk shows with political commentators back then? Was there anything like "Meet the Press" or "60 Mins"?

Here are a couple of links that I found where we can hear the radio newscast from then...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnP-KlNVE2E
and the next one...good sound too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtrOJnpmz6s

And of course after the shooting started, we get some better coverage.
Kind of gives me the creeps listening to it...

Was this kind of radio news broadcast just done when something important was happening, or was there news radio shows that did this in detail from the years 1933-1939?

Its hard for us modern guys to imagine what news media was like back then. Today, we are blasted with more media that we can absorb. Im pretty much a blank slate as far as understanding of how people took in the radio news back in the day.

Was the radio news just an hour a day, or a few mins between songs like today? How was it done? How was Hitler covered on radio broadcast in 1930s leading up to the war??? Im a dummy, because I truly dont know.

ALJ...your grandad was right about Hitler. Did he follow the news about him closely?

Thanks all you guys!

Most of the news programs in the 1930s were 15 minutes long. Lowell Thomas, Gabriel Heater, men like that covered the world news every evening. Local news usually was 15 minutes, too. Disc jockey music shows were rare until after the war, but the big bands (Goodman, Miller, the Dorseys, etc.) all had half-hour radio shows, as did comedians (Jack Benny, Fred Allen, etc.) and many dramatic programs ( Lux Radio Theater, Gangbusters, The Shadow and many more). During the day, 15-minute soap operas dominated radio. Women would listen to them as they did their housework.

Hitler's ranting was seen in movie newsreels and brief excerpts on radio news, but to hear much of it you had to be up very early in the morning and listening to shortwave radio. The big Nazi rallies were always shown in newsreels. Nearly everyone read at least one newspaper daily, some read two or more. They covered world and local news in great detail. Hitler often made the banner headline. He was seen as a great threat. No one today even comes close. However, people back then were hardier and more self-reliant because they had to be. As a result, most were less fearful about things than they are today.

Both of the Belgian men I knew best were officer workers before, during and after the war. Another I knew was a coal miner from Brazil, Indiana who moved to Belgium in 1907. One of the kids became a university professor, another grew up to be a salesman for Stella Artois beer. One of the girls married a millionaire, another a banker. I didn't stay with the families, I had been transferred to the military police and stood guard in front of a school the Army had taken over. The kids invited me to their house for dinner one Sunday and we became good friends. My wife and I visited them in 1985. The school built several centuries ago is still a school. By sixth grade the kids all know at least two languages.

Richard,

My grandfather was a businessman and educator until the Depression forced him to move his family back to the farming community where my grandmother's family still lived. He was different from most of his neighbors in that rural community, where many of the farmers had never been farther away than the nearest town. Yes, he was alarmed, and followed the stories closely, but his neighbors thought he was a bit odd.

Ann

I think the fear part is correct. Friends our age seem much less fearful than younger people regarding the present circumstances in the world. That does not mean we are reckless or not taking steps in our lives to deal with what occurs. Roosevelt's "nothing to fear but fear itself" quote had seemed to permeate our beings.

In the thirties my parents graduated from high school, got married and had me.

Carol

There are always two sides to a story. If you're talking about pre-war or post-war Germany, and you're viewing all Germans as the enemy, your perspective will not be balanced. Keep in mind that a tyrant - a dictator took Germany to war. Does that mean all Germans were behind Der Fuhrer? Hardly.
I have met many Germans who were part of Hitler's army. We have had many discussions about conditions before and after the war. It is not something that can be explained in a few paragraphs, but for someone interested in writing about this period of time, one should do a study to learn how it really was.

I wonder what the difference was then between the written and audio-visual mediums. Did the newspapers cover what was happening in the same way as the radio announcers or the theater news clips?

Ann

I agree with Abe. We had an AFS student from Germany with us for a year and became friends with her family, and like Abe and his friends, have had many discussions with them. Years after the war they did not know in their hearts and minds what to do with the issues of Hitler. Our student had never studied Hitler or the war in school in Germany.

In 1972, we had a German college student with us for the summer, and whenever there were war movies on TV she watched them. She also asked me if I knew any Jews and what they were like.

We have also had discussions with relatives in France who were there when it was occupied.

We always need to look at both governments and societies. They are often quite different in the same country.

Carol

Carol

One time we visited our relatives in France during a town celebration. Since the mayor of the town was a Troestler, we sat in the VIP bleachers. After the parade, the town band came and played the European Hymn. We heard a band down the street a ways playing the same hymn. The French band motioned for them to come and play with them in front of the bleachers. We could tell there was something special about this as tears appeared in the eyes of those around us.

Afterwards our relatives said that was historic. The other band was from Germany.

Carol

There was also the German Resistance, though few in number they did try to kill the tyrant from before he grabbed power with the torching of the Reichstag. But I must agree with Abe research and lots of it. Dick and others of his generation would be one source, though you may find few of them will want to talk about their own experiences as few of them feel like the hero's that they truly are. I hope I don't offend you , Dick by saying this.

No, of course you don't offend me. You are correct.

Abe is right, but the truth is too complcated for any of us to ever understand. When we first entered Germany there were no Nazis. Not a one had ever existed. Yet in front of every house was a flag pole and it required little imagination to know what flag had been flying from them in the past. It was understandable that for their own safety all Germans denied having been Nazis or known what was taking place, yet the total denial was something we noticed and commented on.

In fighting the Germans there seldom was any genuine animosity shown by either side. We just tried to kill each other because we were told to do so and if you didn't you wouldn't survive for long. Killing the enemy is the sole porpose of all armies. Even when fighting SS divisions, little personal animosity was evident

In is my opinion, for whatever it's worth and from what I saw at the time, the mistake of the German people was doing nothing when the thugs took over. Not just the big shots, but everyday people who turned evil when the opportunity arose. The average storm trooper and the men of the SS were examples of that. Every country has its share of such men but seldom have they been given free reign to rule and behave as they did in Germany even before Hitler came to power. Once the people allowed it to happen, it was too late to do anything about it.

In the 10 months after the war in Europe ended, I became acquainted with many former Germany soldiers. Aside from language, they were little different than us. We got along together quite well, especially the former combat soldiers on both sides. Yet they could not be held completely blameless for what happened. They knew what the SS divisions were doing in Russia, France and other countries. They knew about the concentration camps. Even we knew about them. They knew about the treatment of the Jews. So while I liked them and enjoyed their company, they could not claim to be totally innocent.

That said, in total war such as that was, no one can be held blameless. The Germans began the terror bombing of cities. That did not mean the Americans and British needed to retaliate in kind, but it happened. Killing women and children is always wrong no matter who does it. No excuse holds water. All things considered, WWII was probably the most complicated war in history as far as morals are concerned. The Germans bore the bulk of the blame, but no one could honestly claim their behavior was above reproach. It was a sad time in every respect.

I found out today that in 1933, Goebbels and the Nazis started a program for the promotion of using radio as a tool of propaganda. Not enough Germans owned radios, so the German govt started pushing these cheap little radios to the common people so that by the time that they war came, 75% of German homes had a radio so that they could listen to Hitler.

These radios had a short range, to discourage listening to foreign broadcast. They could be purchased for 35RM payable in installments.

The Nazis also formed listening groups when a big speech or rally was about to happen. People were encouraged to bring family and even strangers into thier homes and sit around the radios and listen to Hitler rant like the idiot that he was.

Loudspeakers were erected in town squares, factories, schools, businesses, etc. It was actually against the law for a person to move away from thier desk or machine until the broadcast was over. There were even "radio wardens" established to make sure that the people listened to the radio, and showed respect during the broadcast.

These radio wardens were especially notorious during the war, going about trying to discover someone listening to an outside broadcast. The concentration camps had folks in them just for that, and not just Jews. Anyone found listening to an outside broadcast was in big trouble!

Im starting to get the idea that radio audiences in America and Western Europe outside of Germany listened to the radio because they wanted to. In Nazi Germany, they did it because they had to.

ALJ: You asked about the coverage between papers and radio. I am wondering that as well. Was the Ap wires syndicated with the radio news services so that the same data was presented in more or less lockstep between the radio media and the papers? Surly the papers had more editorial coverage on Hitler than radio? But I dont know?

BTW: I found out also today that Hitler was a weak and inneffective speaker in a radio studio, so he only did one studio broadcast. He absolutely needed a live audience to gas himself up with before he could speak.
That might also explain why he apparently never gave a radio interview or an interview to newspaper reporters except for one way back in 1923. In short, he couldnt speak effectively unless he was gassed up by a crowd of screaming idiots...Hitler was mental!

Dick is right. The German people should have been fighting in the streets to keep him out of power back in 1933. Once in, it was mathematical madness.

When Bush invaded Iraq, it was viewed by the world as an American action. Whether a US Citizen supporting this action or not, he/she was deemed part of this action. How could the average citizen who disagreed with this action, stop it?
In a country where rule is by an iron fist, to resist is to die. How many died who opposed the actions of Hitler are not recorded, yet all the citizens are branded as guilty.
That is the problem with generalization. Using the words "all" or "every" is usually erroneous.

When I took German in college, we read a book about the German underground. It was active, and had some courageous people involved.

Carol

Richard,
I just finished a fiction novel by Jeffery Deaver, "Garden of Beasts." The characters are fictional but the setting is Germany in 1936. The places and events are real. There's lots of good information that may be helpful to you.