The Second Coming of Jesus

It has always been, I think, my dear friend Alice.  It always seems more so when the generation is living it.  Time is such a fluid and long running thing.  We, I mean me, cannot understand the infinity of time.  In our human conceptions we cannot even fathom the end of time or the beginning of time. We are here to enjoy what God has given  us and to be as kind as we can to every other creature living.  That, to me is living the way that God intended. Love, Betty

Betty,

I can't agree more!

Alice said:

"I grew up believing in the end times culminating in Jesus returning to earth. Now it seems to me plausible as prophecies seem to fulfill. The worst storm ever is hitting Mexico and the world is full of wars and rumors of war."




Betty replied:

"It has always been, I think, my dear friend Alice. It always seems more so when the generation is living it. Time is such a fluid and long running thing. We, I mean me, cannot understand the infinity of time. In our human conceptions we cannot even fathom the end of time or the beginning of time. We are here to enjoy what God has given us and to be as kind as we can to every other creature living. That, to me is living the way that God intended. Love, Betty"






The Bible says 2 Peter 3:4

Christ's Coming Judgment
Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." 5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,…
　
Well Betty, you are saying just what Jesus said many would say. You have fulfilled a Bible prophecy from your own little back yard.

I  think if we are kind and loving. we will be ready for Jesus to come.

Alice, Jesus said, "All who believe in me will have life."  People use the word love , but most don't really know what love is. Guard yourself from those who do not believe.

If the Bible is the basis for this discussion, there is nothing much that can be said.  
The study of religion, not religious philosophy, delves deeply into how the Bible was created and how the events were recorded.  Those scholars researching the Bible deal with facts.  They delve into historical records and how those records came into existence.  Even with all that research, little can be proven.  Some call biblical records “Fairy Tales” – stories passed down from generation to generation.  The key element surrounding the Bible is “Faith”.  Either you believe it or you don’t. 
Some background that has influenced my thinking:  Out of curiosity, my wife took Comparative Religious Studies at Penn State.  (Islam, Judaism & Christianity)  During this study, I was often her antagonist.  The things I was taught about religion was subject to criticism.  When she had no answer, it was something she brought up in class.  My son is an historian with a PhD in Ancient History and Archaeology.  In his view, history must be proven and thus much research is involved in seeking answers.  Archaeology is a large part of that research.  Many suppositions of past history continue to be changed as new information is found.  One of my wife’s professors has written a number of books about the Bible.  His research made it necessary to learn Aramaic, Greek, Latin, etc., to decipher ancient writings.  When it came to Old German Text, he sent manuscripts to my wife after she left the University for her to review the translations from German into English.  It was a difficult job and there was much that she could not translate.  She often had to do research into the language to define a single word.  Translations are often the stumbling block with understanding.  An Author writing a Scholarly work makes a decision on the meaning of a given translation, however he is compelled to provide the sources of his research and his conclusions.  Even with much research there is still an element of doubt.   
Seeking answers should be what this thread is about.  If conclusions have already been formed and any challenge to those conclusions is closed, further discussion is futile. 
Questions we ask today have been asked for centuries by people seeking answers.  They want to know.  “Where did I come from”?  Why am I here?  What happens to me when I die?  Is there a heaven and a hell?  There are other questions that arise as we experience various forms of disaster (war, pestilence, plagues, environmental changes, etc.)  Biblical predictions (prophesies) about the end times lead many to claim that we are living in the end times.  The “End Times” being the caveat.  That caveat is a controversial subject and much has been written about its meaning.
 
Sixteen years ago the “End Times” was a big subject.  The year 2000 was predicted to be catastrophic.  Computers were not programmed for a 2000 year number.  It was believed that planes would be dropping from the skies, etc.  Fear was used to bring people into churches beseeching them to repent.  Religious Charlatans promoted their books with end-time predictions.  History tells us about the days when the earth was thought to be flat.  Our space program has and continues to shed light on the wonders of the universe.  We are learning more about our universe and that is good.  Mahatma Ghandi said: “Live as if you were to die tomorrow.  Learn as if you were to live forever.” 
This thread can be a thread of learning. Learning to question what we hear is an important part of learning.  When an old Arab/Jew was asked:  “Why to you always answer a question with a question?”  He replied:  “Why not?” 
 
In summary, I don’t think we should take it upon ourselves to try and convince anyone of our personal beliefs.  Even when we feel we are right, there is an element of doubt and we go on “faith” that what we believe is right.  I think if what we believe feels right for us, it is right for us.  That doesn’t mean it is right for someone else. 
 
Consider the Universe. The vastness of the Universe means that in our lifetime we will not know things that are yet to be discovered.  I think we should live our lives on what we know and continue to seek answers, but not let the unknown control our lives.

Many of what you say Abe has been presented to the world as truth.
Let us examine what many say is truth.
I think we both agree, "All religions are false." They are designed to control people, and make money. With the use of the Bible alone, it is easy to prove they are not teaching Gods word. I have stated before, the Bible is not the written word of God...the book is a fake. Those same religious leaders who control false religions, these were the men who have claimed to have copied Gods word from the scrolls, and put it into book form which they call, "The Bible."
It is true to say, most of the scriptures in this Bible are the same as in the scrolls they were copied from.
Here is a fact anybody can prove:
"Most of the scrolls have been left out. Many of the scriptures have been changed, or words in scriptures have been changed." Does it not make sense that those who have created these false religions would make a fake book, and say it is from God?
In my many years of seeking truth, because like all people, I too want the truth...whatever it is.
I matched this fake book, the Bible to the scrolls...if the Bible was the word of God, it would match the scrolls word, for word. Nothing would be changed, or left out...if there is a God, there would be no need for man to edit his writing...because it would be error free.

Do the scrolls match the man made copy(sic)?   That is a simple thing to check out...put the two side by side.
The people who control Israel today...these leaders say they are Jews. The word Jew comes from the name of the tribe, Judah. What is the history of the leaders  These were people who joined the tribe of Judah...they are not Jews. When Jesus was here he exposed these fake religious leaders in the Temple...these fake leaders were the money changers. They are still in control today. In Israel they teach Jesus is a fairy tail. To Christians of the world they say, "Come to Israel. Walk were the son of God walked."  They have not changed from when Jesus was here. The star on their flag is from Egypt, were it was used as the sign of Satan...David never had a star. Jesus called them, "The Sons of Satan." They tell the world Gods name translated from the Hebrew, YAWH is, Jehovah. Yet Hebrews do not say Gods name because they can not translate it from the old Hebrew...there is no way YHWH translates into Jehovah...they are misleading the Christian world in calling God by a name not his.

How can we prove the scrolls are from God, and not a fake like the man made Bible? You say, "It has to be believed by faith." Not true. Even God says to prove it out. How do you prove it out? God did not except people to believe in the scrolls.  With Satan controlling this world, God knew we would need proof. And proof he gave us. There are hundreds of prophesies in the scrolls. Alice named one at the start of this thread. They have all come true but a few which are left to happen. One of those few has been building to a climax for the last 50 years, and will soon be in full swing.

Abe, I could go through each prophesy, and prove it out...but I will not. God says he blinds the eye of the unbeliever. Those seeking the truth will find it.

It seems like the resurrection is always preached and believed at funerals.

Domenic, I will respond to your post.

Alice, you are right.  I've been told and believe that funerals are for the benefit of friends and relatives of the deceased.  Unfortunately, all the good things about a person is said when they are no longer here to appreciate them.

alice wrote:

It seems like the resurrection is always preached and believed at funerals.

It often seems they say things, and don't understand what they are saying. Religious leaders tell people, "Your loved one is in Heaven, and as you say, at the funerals they read the scripture about the resurrection? You can't have both. the scriptures are clear...the resurrection starts when Jesus returns.


The Jehovah's Witnesses used to say Jesus would return in 1914...when he didn't show they said his return was invisible. The scriptures say, “All eyes will see him..”



Most people when in church follow along reading scriptures they are told to read. They are not shown other scriptures that explain the ones they are reading.



It is true people want to believe life goes on, so they grab hold of religions that tell them what they want to hear, or follow some other thing they can’t prove.



The biggest lie I found in the Bible was the birth of Cain. When Eve had Cain (in the Bible) she says, “I have gotten a man from the Lord.” very different from the scrolls which says, “I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord, Sammual.” Sammual is the old name for Satan.



It is true there are many scriptures that match the scrolls…but many major things are either left out, or changed.



Do you study scripture Alice?

I don't know why my post is spread out?

I went to private, church schools, for 13 years.  I am a member of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.  I do not agree with everything they teach, however find that  I could not join any other church.  I was a church board chairperson for two years.

Do the Seventh-day Adventist teach going to Heave Alice? The example of teaching Gods word is what Jesus did, and what he told his followers to do. They were not to make a living teaching Gods word. This is what he told his followers about Gods word, "You receive it freely, give it freely." I have asked many religious leaders what kind of work they did to pay the bills...I always got the same answer. "Teaching Gods word..." As if that wasn't bad enough, they don't even get it straight.

Here is a warning from God; he calls all religions the Great Whore, and warns, "Get out of her my people." The scriptures say the Nations will destroy the great whore over night. If religions were from God, nothing could destroy them.

if you find things wrong with your religion Alice, why do you stay with it...is it for the association of other people? Does your church leader(s) teach you what Jesus said we need to do?
Here is one thing he said at the last supper when he gave out the bread, and the wine...and told them to eat the bread, and drink the wine. "All who do this I will give life to." If he will give life to those who do that, I would assume he won't give life to those who don't?

alice wrote:

I went to private, church schools, for 13 years.  

We were required to take Bible  classes  as well as attend a daily worship service.

No church or religion is  perfect, Dom, and if it were it would become imperfect when I joined it.

Alice,
Please don't take this question as an insult...it is not meant to be:
If you had 13 years of Bible study, why do you not know some of the things I have been saying?

alice wrote:

No church or religion is  perfect, Dom, and if it were it would become imperfect when I joined it.

Alice,
when a religion tells people they can go to Heaven, of a hell of fire, or do not teach what God has commanded, it is not because they are imperfect, it is because they are not from God. To suggest they are imperfect is to say, "Well they are doing Gods work, but everybody makes mistakes." There are no mistakes in Gods word. The  Roman records show they did not put people on a cross...but a stake...upright pole with the hands together over the head. The reason for this is the person nailed to a pole with his hands over his head would suffocate. You can't suffocate with your hands out to your sides? The cross was from Egypt. It was for the god Tammaz...the sun god. Religions show Jesus hanging on the symbol of a false god. One thing those who wrote the bible can't change is Roman records.
People say, "Well, the bible has lead many to Jesus." true it has, but those teaching Gods word do not teach the truth. They even teach that Jesus, and God are the same person? They take all credit away from God, and give it to his son.
When Satan comes, and does wonders, and presents himself as the Christ, people who do not know the scriptures will believe, and follow him...because religions have set them out to be deceived. I'm not suggesting you leave your religion...I do suggest you step outside of it, and take a clear look at it.

There are 40 replies on this, your thread Alice. 266 have viewed it? we don't have 266 active members...these are lookers...who are the 226 unseen? I didn't know that many people read this forum...you out there in the dark...speak up?

You are quite right, Dom.  More folks should speak up.

Dom. You asked what I do  not agree with  in  my church. 
I do  not agree with the theory of the investigative judgement.  
It was made up because of the great disappointment in which Jesus was supposed to return in 1844. 
The Bible clearly states  "Of that day and hour  know no man."
Because  they were wrong they made up the theory that Jesus' intersession for us began in 1844.
I do not agree.

I think when we accept Jesus as our Saviour, all our sins are covered.

Alice, All a person has to do to have sins forgiven is to ask God to forgive them...he will. Jesus said we can only go through him to the Father.
As to anybody saying when Jesus will return...no man knows the day, or the hour. if any say it will happen this date, or that...and it does not, that makes them a false prophet....why would God have a false prophet(s) leading his sheep?  That makes the whole religion false. Jehovah's witnesses have said many times it would happen this date, and that date. God will make things know to us when he wants them known...people should not keep going to him with the same thing.
Moses kept asking God to let him see the promised land..."Just a peek, just a peek." God got upset with him, and said, "NEVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN ON THAT MATTER."

Again, once you ask God for forgiveness.. it's done...it's forgiven. Jesus said we can't go to the father unless we go through him(Jesus) and God will hear your request. True there are some who figure, "Well, I can do that, and after I'll just ask God to forgive me." God forgives, but he does not take away the consequences of the sin. That stuff will come back and bit you. It is only man who demands a person pays for doing wrong.

I agree, but I also believe  the seventh day is the Sabbath. 
I said, "of that day and hour  know no man."
Did you read my post?

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Alice,
Please don't take this question as an insult...it is not meant to be:
If you had 13 years of Bible study, why do you not know some of the things I have been saying?

Who said I do not know them?

alice wrote:

I agree, but I also believe  the seventh day is the Sabbath. 
I said, "of that day and hour  know no man."
Did you read my post?

 Yes I read all your post Alice.  I didn't see anything about the Sabbath? Today is Saturday...this is the Sabbath day. Saturday has always been the Sabbath.  Please tell me were that post is?

Domenic, we are not too far off on what we believe.  Perhaps we are not communicating well.
We agree on one issue very well and that is concerning the Jews and Israel. I cannot understand how people who claim to be Christians can give blind support to Israel.  Either they forget that the word “Christ” is the significant part of their religion.  If they believe in the New Testament they could not support the actions of a people who act contrary to the principles attributed to Christ.  I think that the confusion exists by combining the Old Testament with the New and consider it as one and the same.  If they claim to believe what is written in the Old Testament as valid for today, many would no longer be alive.  Putting people to death for infidelity or working on the Sabbath, just to mention two, would eliminate many.  We know that interpretation of scriptures created numerous denominations.  Interpretation of anything taken from multiple translations in any subject cannot be relied on.  Research continues as new discoveries are brought to light. Biblical scholars continue their debate and write books about it.  The Dead Sea Scrolls was a major find.  Archaeologists continue their work to learn more about the history of ancient people.  One thing I find interesting is the claimed Jewish Exodus from Egypt.  Archaeologists have spent years investigating the desert path claimed to have been taken for this Exodus and found no trace.  They find this strange since the dry climate of the desert would have preserved traces – even traces of campfires along the way.  They have found traces of campfires by Bedouins dating back a thousand years or more, but nothing to confirm the track taken by the alleged thousands of Jews trekking across the desert.  In this example, the story can be called a myth.  That myth has been used even to this day for political purposes.  Jewish archaeologists are working desperately to support biblical claims, however as yet nothing has been found. The people had many Gods/Idols.  As for YAHWE H, only the upper crust prayed to this God.
 
We are in the midst of another political process for President.  I encourage you to watch for the “ass kissing” that accompanies each election process with candidates pledging support for Israel.  It’s about money and votes. Consider statements of unqualified support. Without conditions the Israelis can do whatever they want and still get support.  IMV, any candidate pledging unqualified support to any place, person or thing will not get my vote.  It shows a lack of intelligence and morals.

I  believe that Jesus will return to earth sometime. I don't know when, but He said He would  and that    is good enough for me.