Amazon Vine

Something I haven't seen mentioned here as a marketing tool is the Amazon Vine program. This is where sellers -publishers, retailers- provide free merchandise to Amazon to give to participants in their Vine program. Recipients are required to write a review within 30 days. The review doesn't have to be good, just honest.

I have often seen "Vine Voice" after a reviewer's name, but never paid attention to what it was until now. My new found attention is due to Wiley giving at least 7 copies of my book to Amazon for this (all 7 of its reviews are from Vine).

Since getting reviews is such an issue for authors, this is clearly the way to do it. Good reviews really do help sell a book, along with a good price. That's what I'm inferring, since my Wiley book is doing better out of the gate than any of my other books. I attribute this to the reviews and relatively low price.

Thanks for the info.  I had seen the "vine" at Amazon but didn't have a clue.

That program looks like a good reward for people who like doing reviews. You can't ask to join, you have to be invited. People who write lots of reviews are invited. This is a win-win for Amazon, as it encourages reviews (which, in turn, sell products).

There's a reason Jeff Bezos is so rich!

It's also a way to weight reviews.  On another site, several authors have been "hit" be reviewers whose sole purpose is to deposit bad reviews - sort of a hobby.  Weighing everyone's reader review equally allows the nut cases to bring down the average for a person with only a few reviews.  If they have vine reviews, that means that Amazon has vetted (somewhat) the reviewer.

Phony reviews, both good and bad, are so prevalent on so many products now. Cosmetics manufacturers hire people to write glowing reviews of their wares on message boards and review sites. It's unfortunate, because you never know anymore what's genuine. I don't pay attention to reviews anymore on beauty.com or drugstore.com (which are also Amazon sites), because so many are obviously fake. I used to google products and find message boards where people discussed them, and those are largely useless now, too.

It's reminiscent of when spammers ruined the Usenet boards.

There's some "list" where the reviews are supposed to be unbiased.  Recently it turns out they, too, are tinged.  You are correct.  Word of mouth is still the most reliable in spite of technology.

haha, are you referring to Angie's List? Yeah, I read about that, too.

Yelp is exhibiting some scam-like qualities. Apparently they want money to remove bad reviews. Ten gets you twenty those bad reviews are put there by the site itself.

Money to remove bad reviews - that exhibits a definite lack of integrity and maybe borders on bribe?

Reviews, in and of themselves, are not utilized by the Amazon algorithms. If words such as "enjoyable" were searched on and factored in, a review that said "not very enjoyable" would carry the same weight as "very enjoyable". It's the star ratings that affect the "also bought" lists. In that respect a really damning review with a five-star rating would push a book higher up the list than a brilliant review with a one-star rating. It isn't that black and white, the up and down votes on one star and five star reviews are also taken into consideration. 

Amazon's Vine program is a marketing tool FOR AMAZON, not for publishers and authors. Amazon doesn't care if the worst book outsells the best book in any particular category. If a book that performs badly helps customers to decide to buy another book, then Amazon's happy. Whatever it takes to sell books is okay.

your covers are great

Who said anything about reviews noticed by Amazon's algorithms? CUSTOMERS notice reviews. If a book has good reviews, they're more likely to buy it. Participating in the Vine program is a way to get reviews. And of course this is a marketing tool/benefit for Amazon, I said that in my OP.

LC wrote:

Who said anything about reviews noticed by Amazon's algorithms? CUSTOMERS notice reviews. If a book has good reviews, they're more likely to buy it. Participating in the Vine program is a way to get reviews. And of course this is a marketing tool/benefit for Amazon, I said that in my OP.

Maybe you haven't noticed but the star ratings on ebooks are not showing up on author's pages (Amazon's Author Central). Only the ratings for print books are showing. Not a problem for you, maybe, but it's Amazon's response to the flack from this petition:

Protect indie authors from bullying and harassment.

You are right about the controversy over reviews, but it really is about the ratings and not the reviews. I for one don't care what anyone writes about me or any of my books. I don't like the star ratings because they do affect the algorithms that affect the sales. Yes, customers will make the final decision based on the reviews, but as you said yourself, they are not very reliable. What is reliable is the free sample download for ebooks and/or the "look inside" feature where customers can decide for themselves. The biggest problem is getting customers to land on the book's page. Reviews won't do that.

dkchristi wrote:

your covers are great

Not sure if this was aimed at me or LC, but thanks if it's my covers you like, DK!   

I have been trying to understand Amazon. If a writer puts an ebook on Amazon, do they still have to market the book? and are there tools for this? I’m getting the impression a writer of ebooks is undertaking the job of a pulp publisher…is that what it’s like?

Quote :

Maybe you haven't noticed but the star ratings on ebooks are not showing up on author's pages (Amazon's Author Central). Only the ratings for print books are showing. Not a problem for you, maybe, but it's Amazon's response to the flack from this petition:

Reviewer stars show up on all books, both e and printed. What does it matter if the stars aren't on the author pages? Readers aren't looking at Amazon Author Central pages, they're looking at the BOOK PAGE. 

I looked at the petition. Some indie authors are upset that sock puppets are making bad reviews. DK and I just discussed how some people make fake reviews, so what's your point? The Vine reviewers aren't sock puppets, they were ASKED by Amazon to review a book or product. Yes, bad reviews hurt a book just like good reviews help it.

Why don't you think Vine is an effective marketing tool for a publisher?

Quote :

You are right about the controversy over reviews, but it really is about the ratings and not the reviews.

Ratings are the direct results of reviews. If someone wrote a good review, they probably gave it a good rating.

Yes, the free sample download, Look Inside and ability to find the book in the first place matters, too. It's not either/or. It all helps. Perhaps good reviews are what prompts some to Look Inside. I know that getting reviews can be difficult for authors, but I've never seen Vine mentioned here.

One person's view on technical reviews:

http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/07/13/033228/are-amazon-vine-reviews-of-technical-books-a-joke

Who cares besides you, the author, and the commenters? What's the relevance? Are you saying that most Amazon buyers read Slashdot articles about Vine reviews when making a decision to buy a product, instead of reading the Vine reviews and all other reviews? Are you telling me to disregard Vine reviews? Really not following you, but whatever, it doesn't matter. Do whatever works for you.

So, how many reviews does a person have to give on Amazon to be on the Vine?

No idea, but if you click on a Vine reviewer, they have at least hundreds. Some have thousands.

You probably have to write detailed reviews to be invited -quality as well as quantity. Re the Slashdot article, it misses the point of this thread. Maybe the reviewers know what they're talking about, maybe they don't, but it doesn't matter. A product with a lot of good reviews will sell better than a product with no reviews or bad reviews. At least that's my observation. Maybe Shelagh has different data.

Whether an individual person chooses to believe the review is something else. Clearly the Slashdot crowd were disgruntled with Vine reviews. I doubt that article has any meaningful effect on the program's effectiveness, though.

I am trying to imagine the number of books bought by a person to review hundreds or thousands of books. 
I do know that one bad review, if you do not have several contradictory reviews, does influence the number of people who will look at your work, even if it is free. 
Love,
Betty

I don't know if you have to be a verified Amazon purchaser for your reviews to count towards an invitation.

The program isn't just for books. Vine members can get anything Amazon sells. I imagine the top reviewers get the best stuff.

Many years ago I used to belong to a similar program. Retailers wanted documentation on how fast their items arrived via various USPS and USPS programs. I signed up because I was curious about it and they paid a quarter for each item you logged in. For most of the first year I just got empty envelopes. I logged them in, got a check for ten bucks or so a month. Once the person running the program got comfortable that you were logging the pieces in a timely manner, better stuff arrived. Samples of random things in boxes.

Then I started writing books and didn't have the time for it anymore. I stopped logging stuff in, and they stopped sending it to me.

Quote :

I am trying to imagine the number of books bought by a person to review hundreds or thousands of books.

The top ones probably DON'T review all the books, they probably skim them and dash out something to fulfill their obligation. I have a Vine review that's complete nonsense. I think the person c/p'd something meant for another review.

Which validates the Slashdot complainers, and I'm sure that happens a lot. With all reviews, caveat emptor. But as you noted, reviews DO affect sales. Doesn't matter if they're true or not. They just need to be convincing.

LC wrote:

Something I haven't seen mentioned here as a marketing tool is the Amazon Vine program. This is where sellers -publishers, retailers- provide free merchandise to Amazon to give to participants in their Vine program. Recipients are required to write a review within 30 days. The review doesn't have to be good, just honest.

Now you've mentioned it, it's worth highlighting a few of the problems with the program. Here's the viewpoint of a Vine reviewer who is dissatisfied with Amazon's new terms:

http://marlowe1.livejournal.com/2129691.html

Yes, Shelagh, you've made your point. Reviews are useless. Customers don't look at them. Customers don't consider them in purchasing decisions. This is because ratings stars don't appear on Author Central and some Vine reviewers don't like the program.

It's much better to have a book page with no reviews.

Carry on! I'm out of this thread.