The search for Truth

Wikepedia says:
“A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament. "Christian" derives from the Koine Greek word (Christos) Christ, a translation of the Biblical Hebrew term Messiah.[1]
Central to the Christian faith is love or Agape. Christians also believe Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, the Son of God, and the saviour of mankind from their sins.[2] Most Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity ("tri-unity"), a description of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which retains the monotheistic belief of Christianity's Abrahamic heritage through an ineffable confluence. This includes the vast majority of the churches in Christianity. A minority of Christian churches are Nontrinitarians.
The term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."[3] It is also used as a label to identify people who associate with the cultural aspects of Christianity, irrespective of personal religious beliefs or practices.[4]
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Personal notes:
There are about 21 major world religions. The two largest are Christianity and Islam. Estimates give Christianity 2.1 billion and Islam with 1.3 billion with Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 1.1 billion (of which approx. 13.5 million are Jewish.)

Epiphany: 1. The manifestations of Christ to the Magi. 2. Any manifestation of a god or demigod. (Feeling) A sudden realization of a great truth

Prophet: (religion) A prophet, from the Greek word προφήτης profitis meaning "foreteller", is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and serves as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people.
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Confused by religion?

From my early childhood I have wondered about the teachings of my church concerning the bible, the proclaimed “Word of God”. Sending missionaries to foreign lands was felt necessary to convert the heathens to Christianity and save them from hell. I often wondered about those who never got the message. Did they go to hell due to ignorance? The answer given was that if they didn’t know the truth, God would not punish them. In my view, if that were the case, then ignorance was a good thing. Once the people were told what was sinful, only then did they have a problem.

The second thing that puzzled me was the punishment of hell. If we are God’s children, then it follows that God is our parent. How could a parent condemn his children to everlasting punishment in hell? The Bible tells us that "God is Love" (1 John 4:.
The most well known verse is John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I have read numerous books about religion. The study of religion although enlightening served to elicite more questions. A book by Karen Armstrong: “A History of God” is revealing and provides an historical look at the three major religions: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Who or what is God appears to have confounded men throughout the ages. Icons have been used to help with God visualization. At the same time, God is expressed by some as essence (an abstract entity or a phenomenon). Christ, the son of God, is visualized in human form and that appears to help with visualization in prayer, when talking to God.

The inspired word of God is accepted as God talking to man, revealing the sacred word. How did God talk? Was it with a voice, an epiphany, a dream or simply a strong feeling/ inspiration?
Moses is said to have received his commandments from God. It is said that God talked to Muhammad and he recorded what God revealed to him that led to him writing the Koran, and that made Muhammad a messenger of God (Allah) - a Prophet, as was Moses.. It seems that anyone claiming to have been contacted by God is a Prophet.
How can it be proven that God talked to someone? Do we take that on faith?
When a President claims that God told him to invade a country, can we believe that and does that make him a Prophet, or is "profit" the objective?

Keeping in mind that there were many Gods in ancient history, I presume that man created his own vision of God that he followed. For some that God is one of wrath and vengeance. The Christian God in the form of Jesus is proclaimed to be a loving God, a forgiving God, a God that turns the other cheek. Each of the three major religions claims one God - presumably the same God, yet their actions often suggest that some worship a God of wrath – not forgiveness.

Communicating with God is another problem. How does one communicate with nothingness? If God is a spirit, what is visualized? I can appreciate that an Icon provides a visual aid. An Icon of death however, as with the crucifix, is a negative image. An icon of life would be more positive. The Eucharist ceremony, symbolically eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ, seems to me, cannibalistic.

Man has been searching answers for ages. Theories based on flawed texts written by man have caused numerous religious philosophies. There are approximately 38,000 Christian denominations in the world today. The philosophies of Islam are not so numerous. Muslims are basically divided in two major factions, Sunnis and Shias, that are further divided into various Schools of Jurisprudence and orders of Imamate. All other movements within such as Salafi, Modernists, the Mystical Sufi Orders, Deobandi and Barelvi are either Sunni or Shia or both. The division occurred during the early phase of the Caliphate over the question of who should succeed Muhammad after his death. “While Christian denominations differ chiefly in matters of doctrine, Jewish denominations differ from one another primarily with regard to practice. Hasidism and Kabbalah are mystical approaches to the Jewish faith. Like monasticism in Christianity and Sufism in Islam, Jewish mysticism emphasizes inward, spiritual experiences over intellectual and rational knowledge.”

Conflict continues within Christianity, Islam and Judaism regarding beliefs and form of worship. Who is right? Can one ever fully comprehend God? Is God a person, an intelligence or a thing? Faith is an important factor in any belief or doctrine.
I believe ones perception of God is personal. I don’t think there are valid answers to many questions and that what we believe to be right or real comes from faith. Whatever our belief, it should not be forced on others. The search for answers may provide insights, however I think that truth is what we believe it to be.

And this leaves out Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Confucianism, Jainism, Sikhism,......

Religion is a very large elephant, and we are all blind men pretending to be wise when we think we have all the answers, or that there is one single answer.

There is, I believe, one Source, but there are uncountable perceptions of that Source, all of them by necessity incomplete.

The best chance we have for broadening our perspective, and in doing so, coming a tiny bit closer to understanding that Source, is by recognizing the validity on the perspectives of others, and sharing and comparing them.

Ann

Great information, Abe.

Good point, Ann.

I was spiritual even as a child. I was raised by parents of two different religions. But I very much wanted to know what god wanted of me and what my purpose in serving him was. I was so serious about my search that at age 13 I tried to enter a convent but I was too young.

In my search and subsequent disappointments in organized religion, I've been baptized into / or been a member of four different religions. That's not counting churches I've simply visited.

Because of this I've read the bible through numerous times, prayerfully asking for understanding.

I've read about and studied most of the religions mentioned above (by Abe and Ann). In fact, I am once again studying religion, in a college course, right now.

My own family is a blend of many religions or personal beliefs. I have family members who are Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, Jewish, Jehovah Witness, Pagan, Lutheran, Traditional Native American religion, and Born Again Christian.

We respect and appreciate the differences of view ... some are better at it than others. What I have noticed is that all my family members are good people. They are all kind, generous, loving, hardworking, respectful, and honest ... regardless of the religion.

What I have discovered for myself in my own search. Is that I was searching for my own truth in the wrong places. I was searching externally ... in man-built churches for my spiritual truth. It wasn't until I quit looking out there and looked inside myself that I finally found my own real truth.

I am now at peace with myself, nature, and the world.

A longer version of this passage from THE VIRGINIAN: A Horseman Of The Plains by OWEN WISTER can be found here, if anyone wishes to read more, but this probably sums up the point that we have been making here, I think:

Quote :

How many religions are there?" "All over the earth?" "Yu' can begin with ourselves. Right hyeh at home I know there's Romanists, and Episcopals--" "Two kinds!" I put in. "At least two of Episcopals." "That's three. Then Methodists and Baptists, and--" "Three Methodists!" "Well, you do the countin'." I accordingly did it, feeling my revolving memory slip cogs all the way round. "Anyhow, there are safely fifteen." "Fifteen." He held this fact a moment. "And they don't worship a whole heap o' different gods like the ancients
did?" "Oh, no!" "It's just the same one?" "The same one." The Virginian folded his hands over the horn of his saddle, and leaned forward upon them in contemplation of the wide, beautiful landscape. "One God and fifteen religions," was his reflection. "That's a
right smart of religions for just one God." This way of reducing it was, if obvious to him, so novel to me that my laugh evidently struck him as a louder and livelier comment than was required. He turned on me as if I had somehow perverted the spirit of his words. "I ain't religious. I know that. But I ain't unreligious. And I know that too." "So do I know it, my friend." "Do you think there ought to be fifteen varieties of good people?" His voice, while it now had an edge that could cut anything it came against, was still not raised. "There ain't fifteen. There ain't two. There's one kind. And when I meet it, I respect it. It is not praying nor preaching that has ever caught me and made me ashamed of myself, but one or two people I have knowed that never said a superior word to me. They thought more o' me than I deserved, and that made me behave better than I naturally wanted to. Made me quit a girl onced in time for her not to lose her good name. And so that's one thing I have never done. And if ever I was to have a son or somebody I set store by, I would wish their lot to be to know one or two good folks mighty well--men or women--women preferred."

I agree with the Viurginian for the most part, but would add that since we are stuck with so many "religions," we ought to find ways to respect the others,

Just me.

Ann

cc

Every religion believes they are the true religion. Every religion, that believes the bible, quotes that scripture at Revelation 18:4. And most believe that it is refering to false religion ... which is, of course, every religion but theirs.

And many people believe all religion is bad and that worship of god should be individual, which if you believe the bible seems contradictory, because in the bible god had an organized people.

And then there are those who think any peaceful religion is all right. Is god really ready to reject people who are in all sincerity wholeheartedly trying to worship him and be peaceable to his fellow man ... just because they belongs to a 'wrong' religion?

You know, it seems a god who wants to be known and worshipped would make it easier on people.

Makes you wonder about the worship on other planets

Ann, JoElle, good points.
I haven't found acceptable answers to my many questions. I think it comes down to faith in the inner man - that gut feeling. If it feels right, it can't be all wrong.

Tolerance is important. I respect those who live their religion. My mother was such a person. I find little tolerance with those whose lives are in direct opposition to the words they express/preach.

When I was a child, my parents took me to a southern baptist church. I was baptized there and attended many, many church and Sunday school services over the years where my worship practices were thoroughly explained to me and the world was divided into born again Baptists and sinners. Some sinners were worse than others.

My life took me through many life styles and into community with other cultures and beliefs for extended periods of time. I could list several denominations in which I was baptized, studied catechism, participated in church rituals. I found other religions as rational and even more so than that with which I was raised in my early years. At some times, I found no spiritual faith rational.

When my heart is heaviest, when all hope is lost, I pray. I will get on my knees and pray. I will ask those whose whose faith may be great to pray in case they have a direct line I don't feel. I'll light candles and pray. The basic form of my prayer, however, is likely influenced by the early training. Though I intellectually see God as spirit, the God to whom I pray has physical form, is male,and likely is white with a long beard (thank you Michelangelo).

If I was not born into a faith, I wonder if I would see religion the same. If I had not experienced multiple other faiths, I wonder if I would see prayer and reaching out to a "God" as helper a comforting action. My current church certainly promotes God as Spirit and without gender. God is not "out there" but is everywhere.

And why do I attend church at all when I have questions and conflicting behaviors? My church is a questioning church where thinking people reach for spiritual connection and lives of service and love. It is nice to be among people like those who attend my church.

DK. Your church sounds like a church I would attend.

A church is a combination of the ideas presented, the presenter and the people and how they live out their beliefs.

My church is worldwide and has its drawbacks as does all religions in my estimation. Some people call it a "cult." Some people within the church are a bit carried away with the metaphysical. My church considers all people welcome, even those who suffer addiction, are homeless, live alternative lifestyles and are not wealthy. All are equal in my church.

We seem to have a lot of ministers: a former catholic priest, a presbyterian minister, a methodist minister and our own minister. We have "teachers" who trained for the ministry but stopped short.

We accidentally give service to the community - it's not done as a must do but rather people sort of fall into roles of service, like cooking and serving the community meal. I think I am cooking for the next one, and I barely remember volunteering....

Visitors say they feel an aura of acceptance, even love, inside our church. We have a sense of humor during the service and our music is upbeat, sometimes even entertaining.

It is considered a "Christ-based" church with the Bible as the basic text; but it borrows from other beliefs across the world and often highlights an evening of various church leaders talking about the differences and similarities of their beliefs.

The church believes in love as the primary force in the world.

My personal beliefs are that God made everything. Satan wrecked it all. God gave us a choice. We can either serve Him or the devil.
I choose to serve God. I am not perfect and that is why Jesus died for me.
I do not believe in an everlasting hell--instead think it is an eternal separation from
God
If I am wrong, I am wrong.

I just took a cybertrip to Campbell's MythNow Blog. It was my first in a while. I've been busy with my own stuff. But I was pleased to see this blog entry by Chris Miller. I liked it so much I bookmarked his blog page (see end of his intro).

It fit so well with this thread that I thought you guys might enjoy it, too.

http://www.jcf.org/new/index.php?categoryid=37

Quote :

During [the summer of 2009] I was internally mulling over the question at the start of this blog: “What is the elementary universal foundation of most if not all myths and religions?” Actually, in all honesty, I don’t recall if this was the exact wording of the question held in my mind. It might just as well have been the obverse: “Why do the peoples inhabiting one planet have so many damn religion or myth-based differences and conflicts?!?” Whether the family is nuclear or global it seems that painful conflict and difference are often more the norm than harmony and unanimity. Sometimes the frustrated and/or wounded child in us truly cannot help but ask “why?!?”
Not surprisingly, no sooner had my mind taken a break from its cogitations but an answer came with the ease, simplicity, and, yes, numinosity of Schweitzer’s “reverence for life.” For me it was this: the words “divinely inspired, humanly constructed” slipped effortlessly between paddle strokes and into my mind and consciousness. I was taken aback, knowing that this was the answer I had been seeking. Mythology/religion is “divinely inspired, humanly constructed.” Regardless of the particular forms they take, myth and religion begin with a divine revelation or breathing into, i.e. inspiration, and over time they are constructed by humans in both the building and interpreting senses of the term construction.

(It just hit me that it was just over a year ago that my "sacred marriage" blog was posted there. If you missed it, scroll down the list of titles in the right-hand column. It's the sixth entry down.)

Ann

Great post Abe! And the responses are equally thought provoking.....

Religious or not - that is the question! So many people are confused by this. Growing up I was Christian and Baptist following my mom's religious practices. As an adult, I learned a lot of different practices! Went to the non-denominational church, read the Qu'Ran and deeply enjoy it, enjoyed learning about the Jewish faith and even spending time talking to Athiest's!

Bottom line....I believe...there is something bigger, greater than me. But religious? Not....spiritual...Yes! Learned more about the God of my understanding from spending time around people in true "recovery". 12-steps taught me more than 20 years of trying to understand the Bible.

LeeBrown2010 wrote:

Learned more about the God of my understanding from spending time around people in true "recovery". 12-steps taught me more than 20 years of trying to understand the Bible.

And those 12 Steps could almost be reduced to that one Biblical statement that sums it all up: "Do unto others as you would have hem do unto you."

An oversimplification, but a start in the direction we might want to head.

Lee, There are a couple of Jungians whom you may have come across, who interpret the Bible by comparing its stories and tenets to psychology, Lionel Corbett and Edward F. Edinger.

For me, it's the insistence on a literal interpretation that blurs the message.

Glad you are back, BTW, and hope all is going well for you, your family, and your mom.

Ann

Thanks Ann.....we are hanging in there....when it rains it pours and we just have to weather the storm. Life on Life's terms is often hard.....my sweet little great niece was born and died today. They named her "Angel" because God needed her more. Thanks for the care and concern!

Lee

So sorry, Lee. You will be in my thoughts this night.

Ann

Thanks Ann....