Amazon Has Great Holiday

While publishers and bookstores are generally having a hard time of it, I see Amazon is reporting its best holiday season ever.

Hmmm, I guess I shouldn't have swapped all my Amazon stock for Toyota stock.

Malcolm

I sure did a good amount of shopping on amazon. It worked quite well. I even had them gift wrap a present I ordered for my daughter and had sent directly to her. Some members of the family made up "wish lists" which made shopping for them easier.

Carol

I just checked the sales on Lulu for Forever Friends: over the last five weeks, only one book sold since November 26th and I ordered the book; the last copy not bought by me sold on November 20th. The price of the book on Lulu.com is set at $17.22 for a 280 page book, which is considerably less than a PublishAmerica book of the same length.

The book is selling on Amazon.com for $9.99 and, although there was a flurry of sales earlier this month, the sales rank is currently 564,182.

Figure it out for yourself. Forty-six contributors are supposedly promoting a single book that isn't being bought by the general public at either a retail price of $17.22 or $9.99.

Do you really think that if PA dropped the prices, it would result in more sales? Remember, there would only be one person promoting each book, not forty-six, so do you think a reduction in price would make a significant difference?

Or do you think that the only thing that makes a difference is the ability of the author to persuade friends and relatives to buy the book ... and, from these sales, word of mouth might produce a few more sales, irrespective of the price?

Shelagh,
your statistics are convincing, however I can only relate from my personal experience and point of view.

If I am looking to buy a book for a friend, will I choose an unknown author or a known author? If it's a known author, price is not that important. If it's an unknown author, price is a factor unless I know the author, as in the case of people on this forum.

Further, the decline in sales of my book was twofold. The first blow was that people couldn't buy it via Amazon. The second was store purchases. The one store that stocked my book, Borders, stopped ordering it. I happened to get it in the store by personal contact with the Manager. He had 30 of my books on the shelf at one time and they did sell, although slowly. He felt they were a bit overpriced for a paperback. Shelf space was important and his store was under contract to take books by his suppliers that included well-known authors. He said that he had a bargain counter where slow movers were placed at discounted prices and they were usually purchased by "impulse" buyers.

I don't think that the situation I described can be used as basis for overall judgment concerning price and/or unknown authors, however I believe it is a factor.

Abe,

Yesterday, while out walking with my husband, I said, "If you were PA and someone wanted you to change your business model (selling books at different discounts according to the number of books purchased) to accomodate a distributor in the Middle-East, which would result in the sale of 500 books that might or might not lead to further sales, what would you do?"

He didn't say anything so I added, "If you wanted to sell 500 books what would you do? Bear in mind that PA has twenty-five thousand authors."

He answered immediately without further prompting: "I would sign up ten more authors."

Which was the right answer! It would seem that my husband and I are on the same wave length, whereas you and I are not.

My husband's response to my "exactly!" was: "Well you are not going to change your business plan, are you?"

I won't be trying to persuade anyone one way or another. They can make up their own minds. Meanwhile, I'll stick to the facts, just the facts. At the moment, Forever Friends is not making any sales even at less than cost price and that's no way to run a business.

Shelagh,
As happens, we often make judgments without having all the facts. I didn’t make my initial post with information designed for a debate but to explain that PA was not equipped to sell other than via its authors, as you have just verified. PA eventually did sell to distributors for placement in bookstores, although that was limited. They offered distributors a normal discount of at least 40% as they did with Amazon, and were eventually
willing to take back unsold copies, as is customary. My contact in the M.E. wanted to become a distributor. It was not just limited to my book but also that he would be able to handle other books by this same publisher to get his business rolling. Those facts were presented to PA and were ignored simply because, as you pointed out, it was not their marketing model, but more importantly, I believe they were simply ignorant of how to deal in a foreign market. I offered my assistance having had much experience in doing just that, and I naturally had a personal reason, which was to sell and promote my own book.
As a businessman, being open for new markets and distribution is something a marketing manager wants to do. My contact was not looking for a one-time purchase but simply that the order he wanted to make was an opening order to get the ball rolling, and as a favor to me, set up a well-publicized book signing. It didn’t happen. It only serves to reinforce the belief that the marketing program of PA is designed to sell to their own authors. That however was not what one was led to believe when joining the PA program. They talked about Amazon, about brick & mortar stores, etc. Am I alone in believing that my book would appear on bookshelves? If so, I must admit to being either ignorant, naïve or both.

Abe,

People believe what they want to believe. Books were, and still are, available in stores all the way across America -- from sea to shining sea -- that phrase is used so often by the AbsoluteWrite members it always makes me smile.

Literally, it means that stores across America stock books that PA authors place there by meeting and negotiating with the stores' managers. PA do nothing to place books in bookstores. Amazon dumped PA, you cannot blame PublishAmerica for that.

The only distributor PA deals with is Ingram. I had to contact the UK distributor, Gardners, to add my book, Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine, to Gardners's database. I did not need permission from PublishAmerica to do this. If you wanted to add your book to a distributor's database in the Middle-East, you did not need to contact PA.

We see things very differently and I don't see a way round that. If anyone wants to think the way you do, that's fine by me. If they choose to see things the way I see them, albeit in their own slightly different way, then I am here to help as much as I can. What I cannot do is help people who think the same way as you.

Abe and Shelagh,

I'm not sure I see how you differ on the points you are expressing. I see you both believe that PA has a business model that doesn't include new marketing ventures, that signing up more authors to buy their own books is more lucrative in their way of thinking. I think that is the problem with having so many authors. They cannot provide marketing services for so many.

Shelagh, I disagree on the price issue. I bought Forever Friends on amazon because of the cheap price. I understand there is a problem there, but it did encourage me to purchase multiple copies. I question whether there will be any royalties and just what will happen. When looking at the top sellers, they were all reasonably priced.

The main issue is what kind of business models can publishers and book sellers adapt for the changing times. I don't know the answer, and some of it will have to be trial and error to find what works.

When I worked, one of my jobs, was to be in charge of a small mail order bookstore. We put my self-published books in a small mail order catalogue along with books we purchased from Ingram. We also took our mini-bookstore to conferences, which was a great experience. There were always the "book people" who came and hung around our table, looking over the books, asking us which ones we had read, which ones we recommended.

The model we set up was "suggested retail price" for the books with mine competitive. Office staff at the mental health center helped send out orders, and 10% of the gross was transferred over to the mental health business which was an LLC. Also 10% went to me for royalties. We were able to pay for everything, even hotels, meals and fees at the conferences.

There is a small bookstore chain in Wisconsin called Book World. I have been able to find books there that were backordered on amazon and not available at Barnes & Noble. There is a personal connection and we have conversations regarding books. Perhaps smaller personal stores is one answer, but I am not sure.

Carol

(Quote)“We see things very differently and I don't see a way round that. If anyone wants to think the way you do, that's fine by me. If they choose to see things the way I see them, albeit in their own slightly different way, then I am here to help as much as I can. What I cannot do is help people who think the same way as you. What I cannot do is help people who think the same way as you.”

You’re right Shelagh. We don’t think alike on some issues and that may be based on our background and experience. If we all thought alike it may be rather boring, don’t you think?

My thinking about marketing and distribution of products in general does not necessarily apply to the book trade. Also, buying and selling, shipping and distribution for a world market differs sharply depending on the region targeted. When people in Europe purchased my book on Amazon, it was shipped from the UK from a printer in the UK. When I purchased my
initial 50 books from PA, it was shipped from the States based on the cost of shipping applied per book and not as bulk shipment. There was little if any profit on resale and I considered those initial books as promotion costs.
For the most part, an existing distributor will handle books regardless of the
publisher if they have orders or if there is a promotion of a new book that
shows promise. When that doesn’t exist, it requires a different approach to marketing. We are seeing that now with ebooks and other methods being discussed on this forum. Creativity is the key. We are seeing a drop in prices for products in general based on the economy. Being flexible and using creativity to sell is more important than ever.

When I attempted to use creativity to launch a “new” distributor in a “new”
marketplace, it could only work with a company that was seeking new markets and who would be flexible. That not being the case, it didn’t happen. I have worked with Europe, the USA and the M.E. in product marketing and distribution. I do know something of how things work for
products in general but already admitted that this knowledge did not apply to the book trade. I think you’ll agree that the book trade is no longer the same as it was ten years ago or even what it was last year. As times change one needs to be flexible. Being open to new ideas is important. There is no right way to do anything that will remain constant.

At least that’s the way I see it in my way of thinking. Can we at least agree to disagree?

Carol Troestler wrote:

Abe and Shelagh,

I'm not sure I see how you differ on the points you are expressing. I see you both believe that PA has a business model that doesn't include new marketing ventures, that signing up more authors to buy their own books is more lucrative in their way of thinking. I think that is the problem with having so many authors. They cannot provide marketing services for so many.

The number of authors is only a problem to those authors who think that PA should market their books. They never did and they never will. They increase sales by increasing the number of authors. What you want and what you get are not the same thing. You see it the way you want to see it because it doesn't fit your way of thinking.

There is no need to market the books. The costs involved in marketing just one book to sell a thousand copies would pay the salaries of a number of editors to edit enough new authors' books to sell many thousands of books. If it didn't, they would set up a marketing department. It is not as though they have not considered it. They sent out an email years ago suggesting that they would be setting up a marketing department. Presumably, they costed it and decided against it.

I hope you are right about the low price of the anthology and it makes many new sales in 2009. As I keep saying, I won't be disappointed!

Some ways of doing things can be adapted over the years, keeping what works and finding new ways to do what doesn't. At the present time people are finding new ways to make profits and finding businesses that work.

We are part of a global market, but my daughter said she had read that in times of difficulty people will become more local. We see that in Wisconsin, right now having been determined to be one of the best four states to live in economically. We have just had GM move out of small town leaving the workers devastated, but they had also moved out of another small town years ago that came back with new ideas and businesses.

As authors these things are important. Sometimes when I read about small publishers that I would like to have publish my books, I get the feeling their marketing plan is to find one great book that will be a runaway best seller and make them lots of money.

One of the publishers that considered my book was part of a larger organization with members and a book club. It would be interesting to find out which of these works the best, but those details are difficult to decipher and become opinions of our own experiences.

Carol

Yes Abe, I actually agree with you; marketing books is very different to marketing other products.

Carol,

Small publishers want to find a "bestseller" to give them the financial security to publish the types of book they want to publish knowing that these books will not pay for themselves. It's how small publishers became big publishers -- but there are very few of those left and the surviving big publishers have taken over many of the small publishers.