Why is Everyone Outraged?

10/13

                 The New E Mails show Hillary hates all groups, she says one thing to the public
and in private states another, she's a Bastard ! She's the worst kind of evil...Democrats are
lier's , cheats and thief's , the'll throw their own mothers under the bus to get elected...........

                                                        Cheers............Joe.............

 

Good one, Shelagh.

I guess my post didn't post!  I loved it, Shelagh.  Made me smile. Needed one about now... I've always felt we have so much in common with Great Britain, Australia and Canada - yet we are very different indeed in many surface ways.

When I lived in S. Korea, the culture was so extremely different that it felt like coming home to visit any of those countries.

10/14

             " I love it !, Hail to the Queen.." We should have never left England.."
Now if we can only  close Washington down and just have parliament we would
be doing much better and oh yes I would love and welcome Prince William and
Princess Kate as our royal new King and Queen down the road....Cheerio..

                                                   Cheers.......Joe.........

No, not me.  It's bad enough to pay for a Congress that doesn't work.  I don't want to be taxed for the costs of a monarchy - which the revolution was fought so hard to eliminate.

Someone needs to figure out how to implement term limits, overturn Citizens United, get control of campaign spending and develop a cadre of people who can use the best minds to run this country for everyone, not the few.

joefrank wrote:

10/14

             " I love it !, Hail to the Queen.." We should have never left England.."
Now if we can only  close Washington down and just have parliament we would
be doing much better and oh yes I would love and welcome Prince William and
Princess Kate as our royal new King and Queen down the road....Cheerio..

                                                   Cheers.......Joe.........

I agree with Joe.

I believe in fixing what we have.  I love America and the ideals we seek.  I see hope for the future in the youth that may rise above the bigotry and bias of their parents and the greedy generation.  They may become the businesses that believe in profit sharing and protecting the environment.  They may desire healthcare for everyone as a right and more. They may perfect diplomacy and a world with peace at last. Let's hope so.

My thoughts are in sinc with those of DK.

I heard on a news show today that people are surrounding themselves with those who live and think the same way and are in the same jobs and economic status, or lack of status.  Thus, their minds are not challenged to consider divergent points of view.  The premise was that in previous eras, people sat around a card table with different points of view and argued until they couldn't argue anymore and then laughed in friendship until the next time.  But they may have gone home and considered what they heard.

This fact contributes to polarization and stagnation.

On facebook, when so-called friends find out that they hold opposing political opinions, they unfriend one another. As a consequence, their news feeds are full of similarly-held views. I have been unfriended by a number of author friends to my advantage. My page feed is no longer full of disgusting propaganda to which I could not resist responding. 

I really don't care who is elected on November 8th, but the dirty tactics employed in this campaign have sunk to a new low. The sexual allegations leave all women more vulnerable than ever since, without evidence, accusations have been made and rejected by one group of people and accepted by another without any firm basis for doing either.

I agree with you, Shelagh.  Allegations are not fact.  I wonder what would happen if all those involved were asked to take a lie detector test.  Anyone can accuse another.  Unfortunately it is up to the accused to provide a defense.  “Innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t seem to apply. 
 
I’m reminded of the Children’s story about the Little Boy who cried Wolf.  Once one has lied, it is difficult to believe them even when they are telling the truth.  Both Candidates are guilty of lying and many of those lies have been proven. 
 
IMV, whether Trump or Clinton is elected, America loses.  Honorable candidates have been eliminated.  Since I can’t in good conscious vote for either Trump or Clinton, I will write in a Candidate.  Although it is considered a wasted vote I will be exercising my right to vote and not be coerced into selecting a candidate forced on me.  We need a third or even a fourth party as is practiced is some other countries.  Write-in votes should be taken seriously.

The choice facing America is: change or no change. When the UK was faced with the same choices in the last general election, the Lib-dem party all but disappeared; the number of Liberal Democrat MPs dropped from 55 to just 8.  The Labour party in Scotland fared even worse, from 41 MPs to just 1. 

If America is content with how things are now, they can vote for no change. If they are dissatisfied, they can vote for change. The mud slinging puts America in a poor light, but it would seem that's how American politics work. It will be interesting to see how ready the American peope are for change; it's in their own hands.

By the way, all the online polls prior to the UK referendum showed the leave camp with a clear lead; all the telephone polls showed the remain camp leading. I said to my husband that I couldn't understand why the media were so convinced that the remain vote would win when all the online polls suggested the opposite.

Change for change's sake is ridiculous.  There will be no positive change.  Bernie Sanders would have been a change agent for sure.  Not Trump.  The state of the lower education system in the United States is seen in the number of U.S. white, lower middle class, male, less educated U.S. citizens who don't have the sophistication to understand why they are less wealthy nor do they wish to correct the problems in the U.S.  They are the ones who want any change, even at the expense of the nation.  They are the Trump voters.  Not educated, sophisticated people with a world view. 

Just as living in the U.K. made it easier to understand their frustration, living in the U.S. when women had no rights and blacks were segregated and people were not provided equal rights under existing laws, is necessary to understand the group of people who want to elect a man like Trump who speaks like a bigot, and purposefully arouses subliminal racism and difference hatreds because he has no knowledge to talk about issues but is a marketing genius.

One would need to live here through the bigotry of the President Obama election - that Trump kept alive for his own purposes. 

Even the Republicans don't want him.  They just want the opportunity to appoint Supreme Court justices so they can put their religious dogma into law and repeal laws that protected the equal rights of all citizens in the U.S. including protections from corporate excess.

But a person with blinders only gets angry when provided with factual information that they can't understand.  And Trump feeds that anger with zero information and inflammatory remarks.  He exhibits the same inability to cope with dissonance or anyone that gets in his way. 

From the expressions on Trump, I would guess that he actually hates Hillary Clinton - a woman who dares expect him to use intelligence and who believes she is better qualified than he is to run the country.  He doesn't run anything - and the business practices he used would destroy a nation at home and in the world.  Only dictators behave as he does and are successful.

In Trump's defence:

Last night a friend claimed that Donald Trump wouldn’t make a good president; he is brash, he is racist, he is a loudmouth; you know the normal things people learn to recite after being programmed by television news. The one I loved was that, “Trump is arrogant.” My friend questioned if one man could make “that much difference in the world today.” To my friend's credit, she was respectful enough to let me respond when she asked, “Really, what has Trump done?”

I said, “In June of last year, Trump entered the race for president. In just a little over a year, Trump has single handedly defeated the Republican party. He did so thoroughly. In fact, he did so in such a resounding way that the Republican Party now suffers from an identity crisis. He literally dismantled the party. Trump even dismantled and dismissed the brand and value of the Bush family.

Trump has Obama petrified that Trump will dismiss programs that weren’t properly installed using proper law.

Trump has single handedly debunked and disemboweled any value of news media as we knew it—news now suffering from an all-time level of distrust and disrespect.

Trump has leaders from all over the world talking about him, whether good or bad. Trust me, powerful men who have been president before weren’t liked by the global community. I doubt Mikhail Gorbachev liked Reagan when Reagan said, "Tear down that wall."

Trump has expressly disclosed the fraud perpetrated on the American public by Hillary Clinton. He has, quite literally, brought Hillary to her knees—if you believe that nervous tension and disorders offer physical side effects and damage.

Trump has unified the silent majority in a way that should be patently frightening to “liberals.”

As the press accuses Trump of being a house of cards, Trump has proven the press is the real house of cards. He has whipped up the entire establishment into pure panic. Trump has exposed them for who they are and worse, what they are. George Clooney was right when he said Trump draws live news coverage of his podium that he’s not yet approached. Thanks, George, you were perfectly correct.

What we see as headline news today are actually the last bubbles from the ship that is now sunk—meaning the standard news media, as a propaganda machine, has been exposed. They have no more value.

In the same way Trump asked the African-American community this question, I asked my friend, ”At this point, what do you have to lose?” We have mass cop shootings, riots in our streets, ambushed cops, double digit inflation, bombs blowing up in our cities, targeted police, #BLM, a skyrocketing jobless rate, no economic growth, privately owned land being seized by the federal government, the worst racial tension in my lifetime, no God in schools, more abortions than ever, illegal aliens pouring into our country, sick veterans receiving no care, and a debt that doubled in seven years to $19 trillion. Are you really happy with the condition of the current system?

One man has done all of this in one year—one guy, and on his own dime. And with everything I’ve written above, you believe Trump hasn't done anything? You claim that you are afraid of Donald Trump? No wonder we’re in trouble. You can say that Trump is a lousy presidential candidate. That’s your right. Just don’t ever say he’s not effective.

That Megan Kelly, FOX News, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, Rachel Maddow, the Huffington Post, the New York Times, Raleigh’s News and Observer, the AP, Don Lemon, Jake Tapper, and many more, failed to implement their collectively orchestrated lie on the American people against Trump, is actually a massive testament to Trump. The press colluded pure propaganda to accomplish his demise … and they have collectively failed and miserably.

Here's just one example of how badly America is injured right now. There are high school football players on their knees during the national anthem simply because the press used as propaganda to program those kids to do that very thing. But, these kids are mimicking NFL stars the same way the same kids chooses which brand of football shoe to purchase—they're overtly brain-washed to do that very thing.

Now, we have a generation of children who hate America.

America’s problem isn’t that little children are on their knee in collective disrespect of America. Our problem is that America is on her knee from collective disrespect by Americans.

You can disrespect America all you want. But, it’s high-time you respect the silent majority. Because they’re not simply the “silent majority” as you’ve been trained to believe when Hillary calls them “deplorables.” The fact is, they are simply the majority. And now they're no longer silent either. Donald Trump changed all of that, single-handedly and within one year.

__________________________

I was asked tonight how I could ever support Trump after the comments he made over 11 years ago about women and if I would still support him if he made those comments to my daughter? My response was this....

If he had put our nations security at risk, I would not vote for him.

If his organization received large donations from countries that killed women and gays, I would not vote for him.

If he boasted 30 Years of government experience, but still could not discern if an email was classified or not, without someone letting him know if it was or not, I would not vote for him.

If he boasted about how he has defended children his entire life, but is for abortion, (even late term, when the child can feel pain) I would not vote for him.

If he wanted my 3 year old Granddaughter to go to restrooms with men dressed as women, I would not vote for him.

I have taught my daughter and will teach my granddaughter to disregard sexist remarks and move on, especially when they were made so many years ago and, also to forgive those who say they are sorry.

If he caused lives to be destroyed in Benghazi and then lied to the faces of the parents as they stood at their child's casket, I would not vote for him.

If people who came against him mysteriously turned up dead, I would not vote for him.

If he suddenly developed a southern accent when he was in the South, campaigning, I would not vote for him.

If he continually broke the law and that was ignored, I would not vote for him, but right now, the only person who does all these things is Hillary. Right now, the fact that Donald made these remarks over 12 years ago, does not move me. I'm bigger than those remarks and we all have said stupid things throughout our lives. To me, the fact that Hillary lies continuously, is a much bigger problem. We can see the effects of her lies by the state of our poor country right now... Rant over... Still voting for Trump.



Photograph of Donald Trump, Muhammad Ali, and Rosa Parks after receiving the Ellis Island Medal of Honor in 1986.



DK, please give your defence of Hillary Clinton.

Wow Shelagh, you said a mouthful, however nothing you said would change my opinion of Trump.  It will go down to the wire at the voting booth and America will deserve what she gets.

The aim wasn't to change anyone's opinion, Abe; it was to see what kind of defence DK could muster for Hillary Clinton.

My defense is that I read both the Democratic and the Republican platforms - what they stand for and will put into legislation - what their plans are for "change."  Too long to summarize, I will highlight a few bits.

One party, the Republican Party, will reverse all the good that has been accomplished in terms of equality of opportunity and the health needs of the population, including children, the disabled, the elderly and those with chronic illness and pain.

They will put in place religious based policies that limit my freedom of choice as a woman regarding my body and my own health care.  They will put into place religious based policies that limit those of different religions from enjoying the same rights as the rest of the population.  One example is definition of sexuality another is definition of marriage.

Their economic policies model those that took us into a depression - feed the wealthy and it dribbles down.  We learned in our recent financial disaster that Obama brought us out of slowly with zero help from Congress - trickle down is really trickle up and will continue to enrich those global industrialists that have zero loyalty to the country, the U.S., that provided them the educated management and innovators that led to their success.

The Democratic party will fix policies that are badly in need of repair without throwing the baby out with the bath and harming millions of U.S. citizens.  That fix includes healthcare and the provision of Medicare (a great program that the Republicans will change) and Social Security (a program the Republicans will privatize and make more expensive, thus impoverishing the common man and especially elderly women).  Almost every policy that benefits the U.S. citizens came during a Democratic administration.

Donald Trump, specifically, has made his life based on the money and the job he inherited from his father.  He talks  big, but has zero experience seeking a real job and much experience losing $billions of other people's money and not paying creditors.  I believe the "talk" regarding his treatment of women as sexual toys and any non-beautiful woman as "less than."

Hillary Clinton does, in fact, have a career of accomplishments that benefits women and children in particular and the nation in general.  Because she accomplished much in terms of gaining health care for children, money to rebuild New York City after 911 and help those in medical need, and international policy and human rights in the world, she has also had failures.  She has made mistakes.  She is at least well-educated, well-informed, well-connected, well-respected for her talent and intelligence not her money. Even their much-maligned foundation is rated in the top 10% for its charitable contributions worldwide.  She has personal grit and strength and the calm disposition required - yet feisty when required.  She has personal courage.  She has class.

Donald Trump is a fake shell that he creates because he has wealth.  Take away his wealth and he is nothing.  I have known many men like him.  I remember a person saying to me about one of them, "why don't you like so and so, he's such a gentleman."  He wasn't a gentleman, but only women knew. The women Trump's life know, all three wives and his daughter.  He has zero class.

Because I have worked with powerful men, lived in wealth and privilege with such a man in a high powered business environment where I have also worked, and worked in Washington, D.C. as an intern and as a lobbyist for special causes, I know the type well.  It's bad enough if they have knowledge.  Donald Trump only knows what his handlers tell him.  He has the attention span of a child, the behavior of an adolescent, and will be a danger to the nation.  I give him credit for one thing:  he is a genius at marketing.

I still recommend the fable, The Emperor's New Clothes.  It explains his following.

dkchristi wrote:

My defense is that I read both the Democratic and the Republican platforms - what they stand for and will put into legislation - what their plans are for "change."  Too long to summarize, I will highlight a few bits.

One party, the Republican Party, will reverse all the good that has been accomplished in terms of equality of opportunity and the health needs of the population, including children, the disabled, the elderly and those with chronic illness and pain.

They will put in place religious based policies that limit my freedom of choice as a woman regarding my body and my own health care.  They will put into place religious based policies that limit those of different religions from enjoying the same rights as the rest of the population.  One example is definition of sexuality another is definition of marriage.

Their economic policies model those that took us into a depression - feed the wealthy and it dribbles down.  We learned in our recent financial disaster that Obama brought us out of slowly with zero help from Congress - trickle down is really trickle up and will continue to enrich those global industrialists that have zero loyalty to the country, the U.S., that provided them the educated management and innovators that led to their success.

The Democratic party will fix policies that are badly in need of repair without throwing the baby out with the bath and harming millions of U.S. citizens.  That fix includes healthcare and the provision of Medicare (a great program that the Republicans will change) and Social Security (a program the Republicans will privatize and make more expensive, thus impoverishing the common man and especially elderly women).  Almost every policy that benefits the U.S. citizens came during a Democratic administration.

Donald Trump, specifically, has made his life based on the money and the job he inherited from his father.  He talks  big, but has zero experience seeking a real job and much experience losing $billions of other people's money and not paying creditors.  I believe the "talk" regarding his treatment of women as sexual toys and any non-beautiful woman as "less than."

What does this have to do with Hillary?

Quote :

Hillary Clinton does, in fact, have a career of accomplishments that benefits women and children in particular and the nation in general.  Because she accomplished much in terms of gaining health care for children, money to rebuild New York City after 911 and help those in medical need, and international policy and human rights in the world, she has also had failures.  She has made mistakes.  She is at least well-educated, well-informed, well-connected, well-respected for her talent and intelligence not her money. Even their much-maligned foundation is rated in the top 10% for its charitable contributions worldwide.  She has personal grit and strength and the calm disposition required - yet feisty when required.  She has personal courage.  She has class.

Could you give evidence of her achievements over the last thirty years?

Quote :

Donald Trump is a fake shell that he creates because he has wealth.  Take away his wealth and he is nothing.  I have known many men like him.  I remember a person saying to me about one of them, "why don't you like so and so, he's such a gentleman."  He wasn't a gentleman, but only women knew. The women Trump's life know, all three wives and his daughter.  He has zero class.

Because I have worked with powerful men, lived in wealth and privilege with such a man in a high powered business environment where I have also worked, and worked in Washington, D.C. as an intern and as a lobbyist for special causes, I know the type well.  It's bad enough if they have knowledge.  Donald Trump only knows what his handlers tell him.  He has the attention span of a child, the behavior of an adolescent, and will be a danger to the nation.  I give him credit for one thing:  he is a genius at marketing.

I still recommend the fable, The Emperor's New Clothes.  It explains his following.

I asked you to defend Hillary, not attack Donald. The media portrayed Trump's relationship with his daughter Tiffany as strained. Here's her take on her dad:

Would she say otherwise in a Republican convention speech?

I responded to your question regarding Hillary's accomplishments in general and my defense of Hillary does include pointing out the problems with Trump since choosing her is related to a comparison to him.  Her defense is a comparative defense that requires including the shortfalls of Trump.

Anyone dependent on a powerful person of wealth is not going to bite the hand that feeds them -

Quote :

“First ever student commencement speaker at Wellesley College. Distinguished graduate of Yale Law School. Former Director of the Arkansas Legal Aid Clinic. Former civil litigation attorney. Former Law Professor at the University of Arkansas School of Law. Former First Lady of Arkansas. Former First Lady of the United States, and the first FLOTUS in US History to hold a postgraduate degree. First ex-FLOTUS in US History to be elected to the United States Senate. Elected by the… State of New York to serve two terms in the United States Senate. Former US Secretary of State. GRAMMY Award Winner. Author.

• Even though her major initiative, the Clinton healthcare plan, failed (due to Republican obstruction), you cannot deny that it laid ground for what we have today, the Affordable Healthcare Act, something Clinton supports and would continue.
  
• She played a leading role in the development of State Children’s Health Insurance Program, which provides the much-needed state support for children whose parents cannot afford nor provide them with adequate healthcare coverage.
  
• She was also instrumental in the creation of the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act.
  
• Successfully fought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and asthma at the National Institute of Health (NIH).
  
• She spearheaded investigations into mental illness plaguing veterans of the Gulf War; we now have a term for it – Gulf War Syndrome.
  
• At the Department of Justice, she helped create the office on Violence Against Women.
  
• She was instrumental in securing over $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center redevelopment.
  
• Took a leading role in the investigation of health consequences of first responders and drafted the first bill to compensate and offer the health services our first responders deserve (Clinton’s successor in the Senate, Kirsten Gillibrand, passed the bill).
  
• Was instrumental in working out a bi-partisan compromise to address civil liberty abuses for the renewal of the U.S. Patriot Act.
  
•  Proposed a revival of the New Deal-era Home Owners’ Loan Corporation to help homeowners refinance their mortgages in the wake of the 2008 financial disaster.
  
• Was a major proponent of sensible diplomacy which brought about a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel, and brokered human rights with Burma.
  
• Oversaw free trade agreements with our allies such as Panama, Colombia, and South Korea.
  
• Was the most traveled Secretary of State to date.
  
• The Clinton Foundation, founded by her and her husband, has improved the living conditions for nearly 400 million people in over 180 countries through its Initiative program.
  

These are not all of her accomplishments. Her activism on behalf of women and children across the world is renowned. Her activism for raising the minimum wage and combating climate change is stellar.

It is apparent that DK does her research and presents factual information together with opinions based on exerience.  To have a good argument would require face-to-face discussions.  Challenging comments made is expected and easy to place people on the defense.  Changing opinions of anyone is difficult unless one can understand why/how an opinion was formed.  The chance of that happening is rare.  The history of politics and religion can provide proof of that statement.

Dealing with complicated issues can be frustrating.  I recall in my early career when I talked with my manager and he asked: "What is the problem?"  My knee-jerk response:"everything".  Then he said:  Let's take it point-by-point.  The end result:  What seemed like great problems were not so great afterall.  With each issue there was a reason and a solution.  Sometimes we throw up our hands and just say things like "They are all liars."  "We need to clean house."  Starting over with a clean slate doesn't happen, especially in politics.   Dealing with one issue at a time can help solve problems.

dkchristi wrote:

Would she say otherwise in a Republican convention speech? ...

Anyone dependent on a powerful person of wealth is not going to bite the hand that feeds them -

So that gives the press the right to disbelieve her and say that she has a strained relationship with her dad? At the end of the second debate, Tiffany ran towards her dad to grab his attention. She threw her head back, full of laughter, as her father proferred his hand to a young man --Tiffany's boyfriend! A joyous and touching family moment. The moment was clipped and circulated on facebook saying that Tiffany had rejected a kiss from her father! This twisting and distortion goes on daily. No matter how bad a person Donald Trump may be, the American press and the Clinton mudslingers are far, far worse.

The distortions on Facebook are legion - I don't believe anything I see or read there as so much of it has been altered or chopped out of context.  The memes are disgusting in general except for the few that are factual - and I check Snopes and Politifact as fact checkers and am no longer amazed at how talented the word and photo changers are to make it just twisted enough to be distorted.

I don't post anything that I have not fact checked.  I have always liked this forum because we fact check and challenge each other and then we have people to smooth over the ruffled feathers that may result from two strong, opposite opinions on a matter.

I'm not sure, but I think this url sort of defends Trump - and I believe it is an accurate record of Howard Stern's remarks since it is the industry's publication.  http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7542079/howard-stern-on-replaying-his-donald-trump-interviews-it-would-be-a-betrayal

However, I never thought Howard Stern was funny and felt his show appealed to the baser instincts of people.  I understand that it for the purposes of entertainment and ratings and that in his "real" life he is a fine person and a gentleman.  I also considered it crass for the people he interviewed to participate in the prurient discussions.  They apparently consider it fun.  Since it is usually at the expense of women, I don't think so.