Agree Or Dis-Agree Pres. Obama, Guns, NRA I Have

6/22/2015


                    Many times I have dis-agreed about what Pres. Obama has done. now
  I agree with him 1000%, the madness has to stop, The NRA is a bunch of oxy Morons !
  And so is Congress for not doing anything about the shootings in Conn., Now South  
  Carolina, read what he said, I back what he said because I'm tired of reading that some
  nut job has gotten a hand gun or some super weapon and killed 3,5,8,10 or more people,
  I'm tired of crying about little children who are murdered or adults , all these innocent people
  mean nothing to Congress, we have to make gun laws so strict all you can buy is a rifle for
  hunting .......Read it now..Someone needs to start an on line petition now !!

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/06/22/obama-in-first-presidential-podcast-us-not-cured-of-racism/21199261/?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D643286893

                                                              Joe

Unfortunately, Joe, the gun lobby in this country is so entrenched into the republican party and the fears and hates of a large number of people whose lives feel out of their control that I see no end in site.  Children in the ghettos and innocent families have been murdered for years by gangs and police actions (that's what they call it now, "police action,".

The enormous profit from weapons keeps weapons manufacturers in charge of the propaganda.  There's those who fought in wars and feel entitled to keep their guns with them as a right.  There's those who fear the U.S. government and believe they need their guns to protect themselves from the government that protects them - which is why it was formed in the first place - the reason we have laws not dueling at sunrise.

Then there are those who must hunt to feel powerful - the ability to take a life is quite a feeling of power for some people.  Note those that hunt big game - those people of immense wealth who certainly wish to keep their gun collection to collect more trophies.

Then there are those who are afraid, who have been assaulted or live in areas where assaults are prevalent.  

Then there's my friend who goes hiking and needs her gun to protect her from bears - her dainty little pistol - that will be useless.

Then there are those engaged in dangerous work, legal or illegal who think their guns protect them.

Then there are those who just have nothing going in their life and a gun gives them a sense of power where otherwise they have none.

For some, "don't take my guns away from me" is their last cry back to the cave man instincts of fight instead of flight.  It's a cry against all in society that does them wrong or did them wrong.  So long as they have their gun, they have power.

No, guns are so entrenched in the backwoods, manifest destiny of this country and the gangs of the inner cities that taking them away will not happen -

We may think we are the most civilized nation.  In reality with our inner city gangs, our drug culture, our incarceration profit system and gun ownership - we are barbarians.

I forgot to add - and those engaged in weapons manufacture and the propaganda that sells guns to people - well, they sleep well at night.  So do the members of the NRA, the right  arm of the gun lobby. So do the politicians that won't fight against gun ownership.  They all sleep well, funded by death.

They weep a moment or two and say  condolences.  But it doesn't touch them.  Just as sending numbers off to war doesn't touch them.  Anyone ever think about the republican party being the war hawks and the gun lobby?  Who profits from war?  The Weapons manufacturers - wherever war exists - whether in our inner cities or in the Middle East. 

The most important thing to a politician is keeping the campaign funds flowing to keep their cushy job.

6/22
                  DK.................


                                            My step-father told me once it takes more of a man to walk away
  from a fight then to fight another person, he was right and he was a WW2 Vet...

                                                       Cheers....Joe........

  

Saw a post on FB that said (paraphrazed) A man was found with an explosive device in his shoe at the airport and now everyone must remove their shoes.  We have mass-murders at schools and elsewhere and little or no action has been taken.  Why?  I think DK answered that well.

I'm fed up with hearing about the "Second Amendment" rights.  I'm concerned about human rights and that is the right to live in peace and security.  Weapons are just that - weapons.  It doesn't matter if is a knife, a club or a gun.  The weapon easiest to use is the gun.  Handguns are the problem, not hunting rifles.  Today few hunt for food.  More hunt for sport.  I detest killing for sport.
Some say that we have gun laws, but that they are not enforced.  Perhaps those laws are no longer appropriate.  It is my view that weaons control is desperately needed.  It won't stop all violence, but it can help save lives.  When life is lost to someone we don't know, it is easy to get over it.  If it happens to someone you know or love, it is not something you can easily forget.  Then there is the element of revenge to worry about.  Retribution is either done in a lawful manner, or it is done by those who have been injured.

6/22

                         This is the truth !

                            Cheers..Joe........

I’m glad to see you folks aren’t prejudiced, you only hate Republicans!  Talk about painting with a wide brush.  It never ceases to amaze me how easily some people can resort to name calling when people don’t agree with their thoughts on life.

I’m a Republican so I assume that makes me one of the people responsible for what’s wrong in this country.  

I own guns so I definitely must be responsible for the return to barbarianism in the country.

I agree that the guns laws need to be tightened…it’s easier to get a gun than a driver’s license, but 
do you really believe that making guns completely illegal will get them out of the hands of the gangs?  You're probably right, it's worked so well with drugs!  

Just a thought...Don't you think the kid in Carolina would have used a bomb if he didn't have access to a pistol?  His motivation was a hatred for blacks not a love of guns.

It’s funny, but I don’t remember anyone calling me a caveman or a weak man trying to make myself feel adequate when I was getting shot, bayoneted, pungi sticks through my ankles or when a grenade broke all my ribs and collapsed my lungs while I was defending your right to voice your opinion.  Though you have that right…it doesn’t give you the right to call people names or generally slander a whole political party because you have a different platform.

In the name of friendship I will not debate this issue, but nor could I sit quietly by and be called names.

Thus endith my participation in this thread…
 

God Bless

6/22

                    Don..

                             I don't hate Republicans ! As I've stated in the past I'm neither republican, Democrat, Right or Left, I'm in the middle of the road. I just wish there was a way to stop these
nut jobs from hurting children and people, it rips my heart out every time I hear about it, we need
strict laws and I don't mean take away anyone's weapon, but there is no need for a young person 
to get their hands on a weapon nor a person to have the rights to buy an Oozi or a AK47 Assault
weapon. I don't dis-respect you, I admire you and what you have done for our country....

                                                      Cheers..............Joe....

Don, you are a person I highly respect, and I think you know that.  I do not however, agree entirely with your position on owning guns, and I have expressed that on various threads.  It is possible that we agree and just are using different words to express our position. 
I agree that blanket statements are wrong and always will be.  As writers, I would think that more attention would be given to how we express our views.  Condemning all Republicans for the actions of a few or even a majority, is still wrong.  When one party is dominant in a view, it is easy to cast all of them.  There are exceptions and you are one of them. I was at one time a Republican.   I also grew up with guns.  We were a family of hunters and we hunted for food.  That is no longer necessary.
I have lived where guns were common and I now live where they are uncommon.  We choose how we wish to live.  Those who have no choice are the ones who suffer the most. 
What happens when there is no safe place to live?  What happens when one cannot live in a gun-free society?  We can argue politics or a way of life.  Finding agreement on views is an attraction.  The cliche: "Birds of a feather, flock together" is not just physical, but mental.
My last visit to the States I received a lapel pin and a hat saying "Veteran, US Air Force."  Some people came up to me and said, "Thank you for your service."  They meant it kindly, I'm sure.  In my case, thanks were not necessary.  I did my duty.  I did not serve to die for my country.  I served to get my duty behind me and go on with my life.  I was never in harms way while in the military, however I know the feeling of being in harms way as a civilian during the civil war in Lebanon.  I'm thankful for that experience as it changed my life and my outlook on life.  Those who served and were in battle command my highest respect.  The instinct to survive is perhaps more real in war than in peacetime, but it is still a strong motivation and can cause us to do things we didn't think we would or could do.

Don, I honor you for your service and and every other person who puts their life on the line to protect my life and those I love.  It doesn't change my feeling that war is hell - and from your description I believe on that point we speak in common. 

I apologize to you specifically for using labels that offended you when I speak out against using them myself.  However, a political party is proud of its members and they proudly wear the label. It's just that the republicans do vote for guns and war and it's clear that no gun legislation will pass with Republicans in the majority.  Fact.  They also pass the laws in states that allow guns on college campuses and other such stupidity - yes, stupidity.  Increasing gun use also will not restrict violence.

I wouldn't compare guns to drugs.  The addictive nature of drugs and the change they create in the brain chemistry and the body's metabolism and functioning is much more complex than a love of guns.  A gun can be put down. It has no physical effect on the body except the death of its target and emotional repercussions from it.

I can understand your desire not to debate the issue.  I only know of war through the eyes of combat veterans I married and dated who also kept their guns as a badge of service and their right - but kept them in locked cases, a souvenir of a place they never wished to return. I loved the men but hated their guns and the heinous experiences that changed their lives and those who loved them, forever. I only know of war through the eyes of the servicemen on the bases on which I worked in S. Korea for five years following Viet Nam.

If anyone thinks I implied barbarians want their weapons; my implication is that those are instincts within our human race from our beginnings and thus we are all barbarians to seek wars as solutions instead of finding alternative means to settle disagreements - or creating trouble that leads to war.  It is an instinct we must fight against as we are evolving to a more cerebral species in some parts of the world. Those who serve our country in combat did not create those wars.  You are right - the real barbarians are the politicians - in any party that favors war to seeking other solutions to solve problems.

The boy's father who bought a troubled youth a gun is also culpable.  The boy's fascination with that gun coupled with his mental distress and his anger provided the tools for his heinous act.  Why did his father buy him a gun?  To do a "man" thing?  To "man up" his son?  I don't see the father in any of the Facebook postings.  Was it a father and son go to the range activity?  Why not a hunting rifle? 

Where did the boy develop his hatred?  Those feelings are usually created at home and in the community in which one socializes.  Any one of those items missing and the people in a prayer group might still be here today.

In conclusion, Don, I am sorry - and deeply so - that you were personally offended such that you took it as a personal attack.  I respect and admire you for your postings, your candor and all that you offer everyone on this forum and wherever you post.  My friends are long-term, leftovers from when I was also a republican.  Many share the beliefs I outlined as republican beliefs that I abhor - but I love my friends.

My sister was murdered in the prime of her life with five children left without a mother - by an ex-husband who was released from incarceration, went straight to a gun store - bought a gun - used it to shoot off the locks on her door - and then took her gun from her that she kept in her nightstand in fear (and she took lessons to use it and was rated for marksmanship) but she could not fire at a person.  He had no such constraints. He admitted to the events as described here.

The state was considered a "gun friendly" legislation state - a strong hunting lobby and a strong republican party.

A post of love, understanding and insight.

DK,
I said I wouldn't post on that thread anymore, but this deserves an exception..  
Apology accepted..let's move on.  
If we lived closer I'd ask you to tea.
As I have said in the past I am truly sorry for your loss.
Stay sweet,
God Bless,
Don

Tea would be grand - with several of our forum members here - with all our differing opinions keeping the conversation lively and thoughtful with several laughs and maybe even tears.  Thanks for responding.

From a gun owner:

The Second Amendment does not say that our right to own and bear arms shall not be regulated.

Don.,


I like and admire you. I used to be a Republican. They have changed Racism abounds not in you. but, in them.

That Second Amendment is still being interpreted to suit. 
"
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
James Madison originally proposed the Second Amendment shortly after the Constitution was officially ratified as a way to provide more power to state militias, which today are considered the National Guard. It was deemed a compromise between Federalists — those who supported the Constitution as it was ratified — and the anti-Federalists — those who supported states having more power. Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, the amendment was originally created to give citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government."

Since we have a standing army as well as a National Guard, personal ownership, IMV, is not whaat the Second Amendment intended.

No one talked me into leaving the Republicans.  They left me.

They left me too, Alice.  Guns have no place in the hands of civilians.  Period.  Those who wish to hunt as a sport, whose baser instincts still drive them to shoot a living animal, can belong to hunting organizations where even rifles are controlled and checked out.

The types of weapons available for sale in this U.S. is an abomination and damns the industry that makes and sells them, the lobbyists that support them and the paid off congress that doesn't do something about it.

Maybe the Congressional representatives should take their families and alive in the ghettos where gunshots are a daily and nightly symphony.  They might think differently as shots come through their walls and kill their children as in Fort Myers, just up the highway from me.

Ah, but the purveyors of weapons live in gated mansions and sleep well.

Oh Phooey! What can we do?

When we lived in Smyrna, a suburb of Atlanta, my wife got up in the morning, turned on the TV to get the body count.  She still relays this to people when they talk about the shootings in the US saying that there wasn't a single night where someone wasn't killed/murdered in the Atlanta area. The sound of sirens could be heard throughout the night.  What a difference to live in a village where you hear no sirens and the deaths reported are from old age.

The recent killing at a school in Oregon once again brought attention to gun control. 
There are posts on FB concerning this and I am in disagreement with most of them.  Claiming the constitutional right to have guns, even falsely interpreted as such, still doesn’t make sense.  Excuses are numerous, i.e., for hunting purposes.  One does not hunt with a handgun or use a rapid-fire type gun nor is hunting for food necessary except in rare cases.  Multiple gunshots in an animal, assuming it was hit, would destroy most of the meat.  From my observation, many who give strong support to the NRA and are opposed to any gun control are from the Christian right.  I wonder how they interpret the scripture where it says:  "Live by the sword, die by the sword" a saying of Jesus quoted in the Bible, to the effect that if you use violence, or other harsh means, against other people, you can expect to have those same means used against you.”
An armed person becomes a target.  Self-defense is something any human would do.  Having guns just in case they are needed speaks much about the society they live in.  It is the job of the police to provide protection.  We have seen the over-reaction of police in dealing with suspects where some have killed without justification.    
I think most have read the clichés put out by the NRA to promote gun ownership.  Selling weapons are big business.  I keep asking:  What is the purpose of a gun?  Why was a gun invented?  The answer is obvious.  Why does one object to gun control?  Why do people feel safe and secure in other countries where guns are prohibited, except for controlled use, and not in the USA?   When one is affected personally attitudes and opinions change.  It is true that one can kill without the use of a gun, however how many mass murders were committed using knives or clubs?
IMV it is time for some serious discussion and action to control the sale and use of guns.  How many more will die until action is taken? 
Americans have taken strong measures for car safety and the use of seat belts.  They have launched campaigns against second-hand smoking, etc., but are reluctant to take action against guns.  Why are Americans so obsessed with gun ownership?  This is not a rhetorical question, it is a serious question.  Can anyone provide me with a reasonable answer?

I wish I knew the answer, Abe.

I'm like your wife, Abe, and I live in a small town.  Nearby Ft. Myers has a killing about every day - or wounding - and often drive by's that harm little children sitting on the floor playing.  It's sickening. 

Years ago I wrote my only editorial letter because a young woman in that same community who was active in seeking positive change was shot down by her ex husband in her yard in front of her children - h e went into the house and found the gun to do it.  She had an injunction.  A lot of good that did.

Guns are too accessible.  The gun manufacturers, dealers, retailers and sellers are too many and make too much profit.  They have no responsibility.  If a car causes death, the manufacturer is at fault.  If a gun causes death - none of the the originators have any responsibility.  It's all an awful system.

I believe the proliferation of weapons in the world contribute to wars.  I believe the proliferation of guns in the U.S. contribute to gun deaths.  You can twist statistics any way you want and the U.S. is found disgustingly violent.

On FB, there is much comment about the gun issue.  Most say they want it for self-defense.
Consider this:  We have laws concerning self-defense.  Self-defense is in reaction to an assault.
If you shoot first before any provocation, you may be committing murder.  If someone has already shot at you or hit you, your defense may be too late.  If someone has a gun trained on you and you go for your gun, it will be too late.  I think most use their imagination for a given scenario that most likely won't happen.  Things happen fast.  Reactions vary.  If you are a trained soldier or someone who uses a weapon on a daily basis, their reaction would be much different than that of the novice. 

Anyone brandishing a weapon is a threat and that applies to friend or foe.  As law abiding citizens, we would think about what we're about to do.  That hesitation can be fatal.

Best bet is to not pose a threat.  In my view, no gun is the safest defense.  If the threat of violence is for robbery, give them what they want.  Your life is worth more than anything material.  What other events do you think would require self-defense?  I don't think someone knocks on your door or attempts a break-in for the sole purpose of killing you unless you have already given them cause. 

I know I'm going to die.  It is just a question of where and when.  We want to prolong that event and try to remain safe from harm and danger.  Living in fear is not living.  If you live in an area where you fear for your life, I suggest that you move.  Move to another area or even another country.  It may not be convenient, but if it will give you peace of mind and security, don't hesitate.  Do it.

I try to think an appropriate response that appeases the issue. I'm not really sure that is possible. So I'll give what I'll call an honest response. Weapons do bad things. Weapons do good things. I don't own any firearms, neither rifles or pistols, but my grandfather, whom I had ultimate respect for, was an avid collector. At one point owning over 100 rifles. Did he need that many? Probably not. Grandpa was also an avid hunter. Many deer, elk, bear, moose, cougar, sheep, antelope did he kill. He taught all of us children and grandchildren to respect firearms and use them for the intended purpose.

People want guns because of an established culture. It really is as simple as that. The constitution is mentioned when legality is threatened, but perhaps the interpretation is challenged. When the amendment isn't clearly defined perhaps it should be updated. Clarified. Made current. Perhaps this could apply to other amendments as well (just saying.) When people die in dramatic fashion (shooting massacres) something has to be blamed. What can be done? I don't have a logical sensible prudent answer that will appease everyone. So let me suggest this. Bury all firearms. Bury them deep. Bury all knives, hatchets and other sharp objects. Bury them deep. Bury all clubs, baseball bats and other things you can swing. Bury them deep. When everything is buried what will happen. People will clench their fists and fight. Why? Culture. It's embedded in us. Find a way to change the culture. Find a way to promote love. Find a way to promote family. Find a way to promote God. Get everyone on board. Problem solved.