Who said writing was easy?

As writers we spend most of our time reasoning things out. If we don’t, the readers will see our errors. Here is a reasoning problem…lets see who can figure it out.
I’m going to use Genesis from the Bible. This is not a question of truth, so just for this problem, assume the Bible is true:
We learn in school, the earth orbits around the sun. NASA when doing space calculations, has the earth standing still, and all other bodies orbiting around the earth. This is pretty much as people used to believe. There was a reason for this. One scripture, God is asked to stop the sun. In mans calendar there is one day missing? Plus, there is another scripture which reads, "Nothing can move the earth."
So here is the problem. We are writing a story about the creation of. earth, sun, and stars. Keep in mind, any error in reasoning we make, the readers will spot it.
"God created the earth. God then made the daylight. (the sun.) Then God made all the other stars, etc.
Now when God made the earth, there was nothing else. No Sun, no stars. What was the earth orbiting around? Later in the story when we have God make the sun, how do we get the earth moving? Or do we? Will we have the sun orbit around the earth? Or will we just have the earth start spinning at 1,000 MPH, and moving around the sun?
Here is a mathematical truth our reader know…If all other things orbit around the earth, it would appear the same, as if the earth orbited around the sun. In other words, is there a known way to figure out which is which? Has any one proven which is correct?
How would you make things happen which seemed real?

"How would you make things happen which seemed real?"

This is what religion does all the time. It's called suspension of disbelief ... or faith.

Anytime we tell stories that have a mythical quality, there are phrases that can signal the need to suspend disbelief:  

"Once upon a time..."
"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..."
"In the beginning..."

My favorite is: "Once upon a time..."  It seems happy and fanciful.  Thank you, Ann.

You're welcome, Alice.

I loved Once Upon a Time.
The four words transported me to another space in time where all things were possible. I still hunker down in gleeful anticipation of reading a story that begins such.
  I believe that the phrase, "It was a dark and stormy night" is equal to that " once upon a time" phrase.  I will use it like that in my next stories. 
I was thinking tonight about Mother Goose.  I talked to my David about her, recited some of the poems.  He had never heard them at all.  I was astounded!  Ignorant are the new generation of what connected us elders to fantasy.  Now, I guess it is all spelled out in graphic animated display that leaves no room for individual and personal imagination.  I am sorry about that. 
I wonder about this stuff.
Love,
Betty

You are a wonder, Betty.

I wonder too but each generation has similar issues with the next generation and they seem to find their place in the world and it goes on, better in some ways and worse in others.

I guess it's like a friend said to me once, "I don't miss what I never experienced.  I never had a child and never married yet I traveled the world and had wonderful experiences and close friends that might not have occurred if I had followed traditional choices."

The next generation doesn't miss what only we have experienced and considers us backward if we are not into texting and video games and social networks.

We had to get into texting and have found how much easier it makes life.  We went to Traverse City,
MI.  and our daughter and our grandsons went too.  It was Memorial Day weekend and we marveled at how easy it was to keep in touch and meet up at restaurants  etc,.

Disneyland was a snap with texting also

Once  upon a time, there was a man who thought his  job was much too hard.  "I know what," he said,
"I will do something simple, I will write a book ."
"Writing the book was far from simple  and that was the easy part.
Selling the book was the truly impossible job.

The man was thrilled to find a job digging graves and thus he saved himself and family from utter ruin.

Once upon a time a wise, old owl that had lived for thousands of years watched from his perch on his favourite branch on his favourite tree. Below, a scribbler worked long into the night. The moon above shone down and cast deep shadows around the aspiring author.

The owl hooted, breaking the silence and filling the air with a comforting sound. The aged creature was a source of infinite wisdom and always knew the right thing to do.

By dawn, the writer had fallen asleep still holding the quill that had penned a masterpiece. A dog with a long tail crept along the floor and gathered up all the pages scattered around the sleeping scribe.

The noise disturbed the slumbering scribbler, who awoke and looked around for the missing sheets of paper. All the hours and hours of hard work had evaporated. The magical story, destined to enthral children from all over the world, had disappeared. Tears welled up in the writer's eyes.

For weeks, the writer stopped the nightly vigil and sat forlorn every evening, feeling very sad. Even the owl's hoots no longer provided any comfort until that fateful day the postman arrived. He carried a parcel from a rainforest, or maybe it was a river. Inside was a beautiful book. Tears welled up in the writer's eyes, but this time, they were tears of joy.

"What magic is this?" the newly published author thought.

The owl hooted.

Very well done, Shelagh.   I love it.

 Now sell it.  LOL     

Writing and promotion are a package.  I didn’t understand that when I started writing.  I envisioned writing and that someone else would promote my work. 
Today writing and promotion are a package.  I’ve come to the realization that if you don’t plan to promote, don’t seek publication.  My latest publication was dishonest.  It was dishonest because I gave it to a publisher without any intent or plan to promote.  I hate self-promotion and that being the case; I should not have sought publication.  I feel guilty about my latest publication.  I wanted a clean version of my original book and they produced that at no cost to me.  Having given it much thought, I intend to ask the publisher how much it has cost them and when my contract expires, whatever amount they didn’t recover from sales, I will pay them. 
 
 
“To Beirut and Back” expired and the new version is “First American Back”, the title suggested by the publisher.  It a clean, edited version of the first novel.  The book is about me.  It is about my journey on the road to success as an entrepreneur.  Since it is about me, I don’t feel right in promoting the book.  I vividly remember Cassius Clay (Mohammed Ali) when he first started fighting and made the statement “I’m the Greatest!”  Everyone I knew wanted to see him beaten to shut him up.  He proved that he was the greatest by winning his battles.  It took time before people would recognize his greatness and accept him.  Although that negative turned into a positive, I can’t personally go that route.  Self adulation is repulsive to me.  With some exceptions, I think that book promotion is as much about the author as the story.  Having someone else promote your work is more credible. 
 
If one cannot get their work accepted by a main line publisher, it means going the POD route or self-publishing.  If one is going to self-publish, they must realize that they are responsible for the promotion.  How will the public know about the book unless they learn about it via some form of promotion?  Promotion made by the author lacks credibility.  Getting endorsements that are included on the cover of a book is a great assist.  If the endorsement is very good, it could be a key promotional tool using the words of a third party.
 
I am currently working some material about sales.  It is what I know and what has worked for me, however it doesn’t apply to selling my own work.  I will not seek publication for what I’m writing, but make it available to others who may seek a career in sales.  Anyone interested, let me know – no charge. 
  
Note:  I have not made any money by writing.  I will write if I am inspired to write and feel that what I have to say will benefit someone.  That's my purpose in writing about sales.

Abe, I have heard you say this several times before, and have been wanting to tell you that, when you are selling your book, you are not selling yourself.  You are selling a product.  The fact that you created the product yourself is incidental.  Focus your pitch on the book rather than on the author.  Try shifting your perspective in that direction and you might get beyond your reluctance.

As authors, we snatch stories from the collective unconscious and retell them in our own unique way.  We are not nearly so important as the story.

You are good at selling things.  What an advantage that is for you! Personally, I've never been very good at selling anything - even girl-scout cookies.  I'm still not, even though I have a few products that I believe in as being valuable contributions.  It's not about me, it's about the characters and what happens to them.  They are what is of value.  They are what needs to be sold.

Surely in the past you have created resumes and CV when applying for a job.  When you approach a professional publisher, you have to explain th them how your product will make money for them.  What is the difference?

     
Ann is right as is usual.

Admit it now.
     

A basic rule in selling is that before you can sell your product you must first sell yourself.  That is contrary to what you just said.  What you said sounds logical, but it doesn’t work for me.  Unless I believe in what I’m doing, it doesn’t work.  I admit that I have a stigma about self-promotion where self is promoted.
 
As for your last paragragh, I never got a job based on my CV.  I got jobs based on recommendations by others.
 
I was never asked by a publisher how my product will make money for them.  That is a good idea and would have caused me to think or rethink about the merits of my proposed book.

Abe wrote:

A basic rule in selling is that before you can sell your product you must first sell yourself.  That is contrary to what you just said.

Not quite.  Selling yourself to sell a product, as I understand the way you are using the phrase, usually involves a situation where the seller did not necessarily create the product.

Abe wrote:

Unless I believe in what I’m doing, it doesn’t work

You are a good writer, Abe.  You create good products.  Surely you must believe in them, if not, you should.

Abe wrote:

As for your last paragragh, I never got a job based on my CV.  I got jobs based on recommendations by others

Good recommendations are necessary, of course.  I generally got the jobs I applied for based on my interviews, but I doubt I would have made it to that level without both a CV and recs.  Education must be different from business;

The submission guidelines from the publishers I approached all included the questions re who my audience was and why people might want to buy it.

Teaching our students how to recognize propaganda techniques in advertisements was a required portion of our curriculum. As I recall, testimonials and band-wagon were only two of of several techniques used by advertisers to sell products. There are other ways to approach a sale, I would think.

Sorry if my post offended you.  It was intended as positive encouragement.

Abe, 

I am the one who discouraged you.  I apologize.  Just because  I find writing books to be difficult work doesn't mean others do.
I worked for a salary-- 40 hours a week and I miss that security. The paid vacation was great too.

Alice, you didn’t discourage me and Ann, I appreciate your input.  What may seem right from a distance is not the same thing.  When I said that one must sell themselves before they can sell their product applies to one on one (eyeball to eyeball) situation. People get a sense about you and your sincerity.  That is not so easy from a distance as what one says in writing. There have been situations on this forum where what one writes was misinterpreted.  If we could look each other in the eye and discuss a situation, the outcome would be different. 
Since I personally don’t approve of self-adulation, faking it doesn’t work for me.  By the time I would water down my presentation, it would lack appeal.  I often see posts made by authors about their work that turn me off.  If a third party said the same thing about that author and their work, it would have appeal.  What appeals to me or turns me off doesn’t mean it is the same for someone else.  If it works for you, do it.

Abe,

After about forty years of making a good living selling, I have to agree with you about selling yourself first.  I've won several million dollar sales simply because the prospect trusted me more than the competition.  However as you said that was face to face sales.

With the books it's a different story...I try and promote the work, not me.  I pushed hard after my first two, now I just write them and put them out there.  I enjoy it and am able to relax while writing, if someone enjoys reading them, that's a bonus.

Developing a Sales Pitch for book buyers.
 
I don’t think there is a single pitch that appeals to all buyers.  On this forum, some are turned-off with graphic violence or by explicit sex while others enjoy it.  I’m trying to come up with a formula that will appeal to various targeted audiences and ask for your input.
 
I’ve had experience with a variety of products and learned much about the sales approach.  For instance: In the Middle East, before any business is conducted the prospective buyer (client) wants to know more about you.  The first meeting is not for business, but to get acquainted.  Once they are satisfied that you are who you say you are, then business can commence.  I found that people like to do business with a friend – someone they can trust.  I could provide various scenarios about a variety of products, but when it comes to books, I must admit ignorance.  Buying or selling blind is something I am not familiar with.  Although I have purchased books and products over the Internet, for the most part what I purchased is something that I had searched for. 
I know the kind of books I like and would buy, but not what appeals to someone else.  Getting my attention is the first step and much of that has to do with the cover.   If I have read and enjoyed previous books by an author, that alone may cause me to buy a new book by that author.  Although price is a consideration, I don’t think that it is a major consideration in purchasing a book that one wants.
What are some reasons that prompt you to buy a book?  Is the synopsis helpful?  Is it the subject?  Is it the appeal of the cover?  What other factors contribute to your buying decision?
Thanks for your assistance.

I buy  books to support my author friends.  Many  of them I've not even read.  Abe, you need to  write  a book  of satire and humor.  The world needs such now.  LOL.

Abe,

Let's look at the other side of the coin. If someone asked you for advice about becoming a successful sales person, what would you say? Suppose the person asking for advice had never worked in the private sector, but had worked for over thirty years as a civil servant. This person had always thought that working in sales would be fun, and something he/she would be good at despite having stayed in a public sector job because it offered security and a good pension. Thirty odd years on, the pressures were no longer so great: the children were grown up and retirement was around the corner.

So, here was the opportunity to find out if this person could succeed in business without any previous experience. Take note that he/she had high expectations and expected to do well within a short space of time; did not expect to attend courses to learn about sales; felt that sales was an area in which anyone with enthusiasm and good communication skills could do well; had no idea how businesses worked but felt confident enough to have a go and was sure that it would be easy to get a grip on what it took to become successful in sales.

This hypothetical question is not about "selling oneself" or "self promotion"; it's the flip side of the publishing coin. On one side of the coin is a person who has earned a living in non-publishing industries, has never published or written anything before but has always felt that writing was something that might be enjoyable and financially rewarding. On the other side of the coin is the person described above.

Reality:  When we all decided we would like to publish a book, we had in mind an agent and a New York publishing company with a publicity department.  We believed we would write, occasionally go on speaking engagements arranged by the pr department, and start the  next book.

No one I know who writes well with any measure of commercial success has a New York agent or a New York publisher.  They all work their buns off promoting their books and their series.  They are Internet guru's, conference hoppers, panel speakers, organization speakers and bloggers par excellence.  They eat, sleep and dream their books.  They are the pr experts and hawk their wares at every opportunity, shamelessly.

If not, they only sell a few books to family and friends and are content that they tried and just didn't make it big like thousands every day.

Shelagh, I understand what you are saying and thank you for the input.  To answer your question, my response would not change.  Believing in yourself and your product is important.  How that is presented or represented will vary with the product.  Another factor in sales is not to ‘beat on a dead horse’.  If what you are doing doesn’t work, stop doing it.  Wasting time in something that doesn’t work makes no sense.  Trying to find a formula that will work is what my comments  referenced.  DK's remarks describe my feelings.  I think that many new authors made assumptions about sales and that includes me.  Realizing that those assumptions were false was a blow that caused re-thinking.  Much time is spent in writing.  When that is finished we are now told that the work is just beginning.  Next comes the promotion phase.  If one were to consider the promotion phase before writing, I wonder how many would spend the hours/days/months in the preparatory phase for the work yet to begin.  Since there are no set rules for promotion that offers a person training, it means much trial and error activity – mostly error.  Many new Authors come to this forum to learn how to make sales.  They read about the things some Authors have tried, but seldom does one read about a formula that works and thus you have authors following unproved tactics.  Even when someone reports success at a given technique, it doesn’t mean it will work for the next person.  Promoting a book at a book signing is not a success formula.  Some of us have gone the route of paying a third party to do I-Net promotion together with providing free books for review.  What were the results?  In my case, it was a waste of time and money.  I think that those making money are the ones writing books on how to succeed at writing.
There are numerous books written about the power of positive thinking, however there is more involved than just “thinking”.  There must be action as with having a plan – a goal that one wants to reach.  The “plan” phase is the sticky part and brings us back to the “how to” part. 
What worked for me was believing in my product and being excited about it.  The excitement did the selling.  When what we do is seen as work – a chore, excitement is lacking.  When there is some evidence that what we do is working, excitement is generated.  Not seeing results and the absence of a workable plan is not a formula for success.  I was told:  “If what you do doesn’t work, try another way.”  There comes a point in time when one runs out of ideas for that “other way”.  Then there are the hang-ups.  I admit that my biggest hang-up is the “self promoting” part.  If/when I can conquer the self hang-up, perhaps I can see more clearly a path to pursue. 
Thanks for listening.