Ms. Fonda gets it

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:56 pm

Who, here was in VIET NAM ? Who, here liked the war?
We probably all belong in jail.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:49 pm

Alice - I was there. NO I don't like war. My Commander In Chief gave me orders and I followed them to the best of my ability! I have nothing against the kids that protested the war. I do have something against a person that committed treason by giving aid and comfort to the enemy and got away with it!

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:53 pm

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
Don Read this.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:06 pm

Dom posted the same link. I should have referred you to it.

4/22/2014 Why is everyone at war ? Cheers..Joe ....

4/22/2014

Why is everyone at war ?

Cheers..Joe .... Very Happy

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:37 pm

I saw your message, Don and I am so sorry.

God bless you.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:38 pm

I never said anything about passing messages. Look at the picture...she was there, laughing and joking with the ENEMY!!!!!!!!

Fonda visited North Vietnamese villages, hospitals, schools, and factories damaged in the war, weaving her comments about what she observed at those sites with denunciations of U.S. military policy in recordings broadcast as propaganda to U.S. servicemen via Radio Hanoi.

I guess Tokyo Rose was just a disillusioned youth too!

I don't want to argue about it with anyone. I am just stating MY feelings as you all have stated yours.

I did what I was told because I wore the uniform and believed in God and Country. I came home in a wheelchair to get spit on while wheeling through the LA airport. My left side is a mass of scares. I have a two inch scar on my throat. I can’t take a full deep breath without it hurting. That’s what I came back from the Nam with.
Miss Fonda came back to continue her career and fame. To make more money than God. Now people that didn’t support the war want me to forgive her…She was just a misguided youth. TORO KAKA!

I don’t support (Never Have) the war in Iraq, but I support the young people sent there to fight it! I can tell people I don’t support the war, but doesn't give me the right to go over and be filmed with Al Quada leaders. I can’t make recordings to be played to our troops saying their government is wrong. That what they are doing is wrong and they should lay down their arms and go home! In my mind there is a big difference between opposing war and being a traitor. She was a traitor!!

I WILL NEVER FORGET…I WILL NEVER FORGIVE!

GOD BLESS AMERICA.

God Bless you all.

Incidently Ann...I think RC is one hell of an actor!

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:55 pm

I do, too, Don, and my brother, who was there, felt as you do about JF.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:10 pm

From an article by Jack Marx, "The Man they Love to Hate," from 2005:

"I simply shouldn't be in my position," he [Russell Crowe] says, attempting to explain why some folks don't like him. "A suburban kid with a sprawled and sketchy education, whose exterior seems so gruff, simple and functional, shouldn't have the interior displayed on the screen. It must be a trick of the light."

The man is, basically, an Aussie bloke who grew up poor and had to drop out of school to earn a living, mostly as a self-taught musician and actor. He would, at the time, have preferred to be a college history professor who wrote poetry on the side. He is about as far from the Gladiator as it gets.

It's a bit like when my son asked me why I never remarried and I told him I had never met an intellectual cowboy. He told me it was an oxymoron - a contradiction in terms. As I've said here somewhere before, the same ought to be true for an intellectual bloke. You don't see that many (although I'm betting that Hugh Jackman might also qualify).

I was pleased to see another fellow actor giving him the credit he is due.

That is all the thread was supposed to be about.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:28 pm

My brother was too disordered to discuss it or have an opinion. He was against dying for sure.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:19 pm

4/22/2014

I'm against all wars ! Evertime I see Wounded Soldiers I want to cry
because these young people have no idea what the hell their getting
into, I'm sure their taught by the army or whatever how to kill, to me
this is wrong. I'm against the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Iraqi War,
Afghanistan war, Afhganistan is using this country raking in millions and
I'm very sure Karazi and his gang have profited big time not their people
as usual... The only time we have war is when this country is attacked,
then everyone picks up a weapon otherwise it's not our business, my
motto always has been and will be if you elect someone in power and
they turn out to be a bastard then it's up to you to get rid of them not
us........ Russell Crowe is okay, Jane needs to disappear....

Cheers...Joe... Very Happy

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:08 am

alj wrote:: I was pleased to see another fellow actor giving him the credit he is due.

The bottom line, Ann, is that Americans don't want to know Jane Fonda's opinion about anything. She should stick to acting and keep her opinions to herself.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:36 am

Are you speaking as an American, Shelagh? Ms. Fonda gets it - Page 2 748523

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:36 am

4/23/2014

I believe she's a great, true Brit......... Ms. Fonda gets it - Page 2 770134

Me, a great true Yankee................. Ms. Fonda gets it - Page 2 748523

Cheers......... Joe...................................... Ms. Fonda gets it - Page 2 94519

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:45 am

Shelagh wrote:

alj wrote:: I was pleased to see another fellow actor giving him the credit he is due.

The bottom line, Ann, is that Americans don't want to know Jane Fonda's opinion about anything. She should stick to acting and keep her opinions to herself.

But, the military folks would die for her free speech rights. Ms. Fonda gets it - Page 2 921805

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:48 am

We need Richard Quest to sort this for us. I like him.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:56 am

alice wrote:: We need Richard Quest to sort this for us. I like him.

The finance reporter??

Don't know what's to sort out.

Different perspectives. Not all Americans think alike.

Yesterday's stuff.

Time to let it go.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:17 am

Okay. It's your thread and thanks for the fun.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:21 am

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:30 am

To the People who died in Nam, and those who came home under a black flag..."Well done." You did your duty, and won the war. Whoever controls the freedom of the press, betrayed those of you we sent into harms way.

[Collected via e-mail, October 2004]

Something all of you should think about is what General Vo Nguyen Giap, the Commander in Chief of the North Vietnamese Army had to say about John Kerry in his 1985 memoir "How We Won The War". He said that the North Vietnamese were planning a negotiated surrender after the 68 TET offensive. They watched the US news and heard how distorted our press reported it and the war protesters rioting in the streets of America. He said "We were delighted. We went from a planned surrender to a policy of needing to persevere for one more hour, day, week month, eventually the protesters in America would help us to achieve a victory we knew we could not win on the battlefield." He also said "If it were not for organizations like John Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the US."

[Collected via e-mail, November 2007]

Giap's memoirs... (Gen. Giap was a very famous and knowledgeable General in the North Vietnamese Army.)

General Giap has published his memoirs and confirmed what most Americans knew. The Vietnam war was not lost in Vietnam — it was lost at home. The exact same slippery slope, sponsored by the Dems and the US media, is currently well underway. It exposes the enormous power of a biased media (the Dems could never do it alone) to cut out the heart and will of the American public.

General Giap was a brilliant, highly respected leader of the North Vietnam military. The following quote is from his memoirs currently found in the Vietnam war memorial in Hanoi:

"What we still don't understand is why you Americans stopped the bombing of Hanoi. You had us on the ropes. If you had pressed us a little harder, just for another day or two, we were ready to surrender! It was the same at the battles of TET. You defeated us! We knew it, and we thought you knew it. But we were elated to notice your media was definitely helping us. They were causing more disruption in America than we could in the battlefields. We were ready to surrender. You had won!"

A truism worthy of note: Do not fear the enemy, for they can take only your life. Fear the media far more, for they will destroy your honour.
Read more at [url=http://www.snopes.com/quotes/giap.asp / iVkAGyFkhxCwhKcq.99]http://www.snopes.com/quotes/giap.asp#iVkAGyFkhxCwhKcq.99[/url]

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:51 am

This is one of those threads where no opinion is the best opinion. Having said that, one does form opinions based on comments made by others.
There is a powerful reason when one says, “I will never forgive” a person. We are taught to forgive, and yet it can be a very difficult thing to do. As parents, we can dislike what our children do, but still love them. As citizens of a country, we can dislike – even hate what our leaders do, but still love our country.
If there is one person that I would place in the category of “not forgiving:” it would be George W. Bush. His actions caused the death of hundreds of thousands. I wonder what the reaction would be if you asked an Iraqi who lost their loved ones to forgive JWB. Bush and his collaborators (Cheney and Rumsfeld) are criminals still at large and should be brought to justice for crimes against humanity. I believe they hope that in time people will forget.
Dick Stodghill’s story about his experience as a soldier during WWII gives the reader a true picture of what war is like. He didn’t want to be there. He fought, not for his country, but to stay alive. Kill or be killed was very real. He respected the officers who said, “Follow me” when engaging the enemy. He didn’t respect and often hated the officers who said, “Go get em” while staying behind where it was safe. That is a lot like what Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld did. They avoided the draft and got away with it. They were cowards sending young men and women to their death.

My opinion about the Vietnam War is that we should not have been there. With some exceptions, the soldiers who were sent there to fight were doing their duty.   Supporting the troops doesn’t mean supporting the war, and that is difficult to separate. I think that Jane Fonda did what she thought was right in opposing the war but was ignorant about the consequences of her action. Any public figure or celebrity, who makes statements about anything, gets publicity. Stupidity is no excuse and I can only imagine she regretted her actions and her stupidity. That doesn’t undo the damage done. Bush never made any statement admitting that he was wrong about the Iraq war. His arrogance wouldn’t permit it. He is worse than Jane Fonda in my opinion.

I’m reading again “HALO” by Don Stephens. His knowledge about war and Southeast Asia give the reader much insight. It is just one of Don Stephen’s books that I recommend.

As for soldiers. Much has changed since my days in the military. In those days we had the draft. If you didn’t want to be in the Army and take your chances, you had the option of enlisting into another branch of the service. There were carrots offered by each branch and that included educational opportunities or a skill that could be used upon discharge. There are men in the service who want to be there. They are not there to defend their country, but want the thrill of killing. They usually wind up as mercenaries fighting for money or glory.

Free Speech is not free. There is a price to be paid for what we say or do and we must be held responsible.   As was stated when I took my driving test, “Ignorance is no excuse of the law.”

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:07 am

Abe -great post. Spot-on.

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:25 am

Abe,

Subject: Re: Ms. Fonda gets it Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:22 pm

Beautiful and intelligent post, Abe.
Love,
Betty