Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
Subject: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 am
1. Arguing over whether Santa Claus is black, white, hispanic or whatever.
2. Being offended when soeone wishes you a Happy Holiday.
Feel free to add to the list or comment.
cjt Two Star Member
Number of posts : 51 Registration date : 2013-11-08 Age : 55 Location : Boston, MA
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:09 pm
Santa Claus is a fictional character. He can be purple.
alj Five Star Member
Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:34 pm
Good point, Chris.
joefrank Five Star Member
Number of posts : 8210 Registration date : 2008-11-04 Age : 75 Location : Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:20 pm
12/17/2013
Santa Claus is a legend , he was brought over from Europe in the 16th Century, who cares ! If a child wants to believe if he's white, black, purple, he 's Santa a great beuatiful legend for children and Oh yes , I'm a child at heart and I believe in Santa and no one can take that away fro me..
Cheers..Joe..
alj Five Star Member
Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:51 pm
Beautiful!
Betty Fasig Five Star Member
Number of posts : 4334 Registration date : 2008-06-12 Age : 81 Location : Duette, Florida
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:58 pm
I cannot ever remember expecting presents at Christmas. I think that Christmas came and went and I never knew it was there at all . Once I was in school, the school put up decorations and I remember how beautiful and sparkling they were. Once I found out about Santa, I thought he was only for other kids, not for me or my siblings. It just was not something he would do, come and drop presents at our house. He never did.
It was not until much later that I began to understand the idea of Santa and how your belief made Santa real. I also came to my own conclusion that Santa was not a personage, but a thought and a feeling of love. That idea, for me, made Santa real. I believe in Santa this day. Love, Betty
alj Five Star Member
Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:02 pm
Lovely; lovely.
Abe F. March Five Star Member
Number of posts : 10768 Registration date : 2008-01-26 Age : 85 Location : Germany
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:16 pm
As a child, Christmas was a special time of year. Being in a religious family, Santa Claus was introduced reluctantly and most likely because other kids made a big deal about it. I expecially liked the stories, i.e., "Twas the Night Before Christmas..." It was great to imagine Santa Claus trying to get down our chimney with a bag full of gifts. As an adult we know that we are Santa Claus. So if we are white, Santa Claus is white. If one is black or whatever, that is what Santa Claus represents. To make a political issue about it is absurd and reflects on the person making the noise.
Imagination for a child is a wonderful thing. Santa Claus is just one representation of that.
As Joe said, the idea of Santa Claus originated in Europe from a bishop, Saint Nicholas. See the following Winkipedia for more info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
joefrank Five Star Member
Number of posts : 8210 Registration date : 2008-11-04 Age : 75 Location : Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:39 am
12/18/2013
" It Was The Night Before Christmas," By Clement Clark Moore, he owned all the land in Cherlsea New York City in the 17th Century, that's my neighborhood where I lived for over 30 years, across the street was The Theological Seminary, it ran from 9th to 10th Avenue, 20th to 21st Street, his house was on 20th Street and 10th Avenue, I love his poem and I have a pop up book on his poem, he wrote for his children. He donated the land for the Seminary Episcopal , for free.
Cheers...Joe....
alj Five Star Member
Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:57 am
I imagine we all grew up on that one. I remember my dad readng it while the rest of us set out milk and a slice of apple pie for Santa. We knew he was real because when we got up to see what he had left, the milk had been drunk and there were only a few crust crumbs on the plate where the pie had been. Can't argue with that kind of proof!
Abe F. March Five Star Member
Number of posts : 10768 Registration date : 2008-01-26 Age : 85 Location : Germany
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:27 am
Clever parents, Ann.
Victor D. Lopez Four Star Member
Number of posts : 984 Registration date : 2012-02-01 Location : New York
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:52 am
I accept a "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Chanukah" or "Happy Winter Solstice" for that matter in the spirit in which the greeting is offered. My Jewish Friends and colleagues usually wish me a Merry Christmas and I them a Happy Chanukah (or Happy belated Chanukah this year when the holidays do not coincide). How a well-intentioned greeting can be offensive is itself offensive to me. Billboards on Times Square broadcasting "Who needs Christ in Christmas -- Nobody" on the other hand are extremely offensive, as are the idiot attempts to "sanitize" "Silent Night" by omitting references to Christ and the Blessed Virgin Mary in today's news from some misguided school in the U.S..
Can you imagine the universal (and righteous) outrage if anyone put up a billboard in Times Square with similarly intentionally offensive comments about religious holidays like Ramadan, Chanukah or, for that matter, any religion but Christianity? Humanists, atheists and run of the mill cranks and wingnuts of all stripes should take notice, in case they did not get the memo: Christmas is exclusively about Christ. It is not about comsummerism, Rudolph, Frosty the Snowman, Jack Frost or blooming chestnuts roasting on an open fire, any more than Easter is about chocolate bunnies or baskets of goodies doled out to children.
In our insane politically correct society, anything that offends anyone must be co-opted, changed or banned. (Unless, of course, offense is directed at targets for which the political left feels disdain and contempt, like Christianity (and, to a lesser extent, all organized religion), Conservatives, Republicans (from the right, left and center), Tea Party members, the military, and so on. If anyone is offended that Christmas is a Christian holiday and “feels bad” about it for much of December, then the response is to secularize the holiday. Ban the wishing of a “Merry Christmas,” and push for getting Christ out of Christmas. And, of course, let’s inject race into the equation. Santa Claus should not be portrayed as a white man. The fact that the character is based on a white Christian Saint of Turkish/Greek origins is, well, irrelevant. Does any thinking human being other than a bigot actually believe that GOD gives a flying fig about the color of St. Nicholas' skin? Of the race of His only son? Or of yours, mine or of the misguided fools who put up the billboard on Times Square?
I respect all religions and I equally respect agnostics and atheists who question all religion or reject it outright. How could I not, having had friends and colleagues whom I dearly respect who are atheists, Jews, Muslims and, yes, even Wiccans? (Yes, I actually know a good witch or two and care for them no less or more than my good Catholic friends.) I do no impose my religion on anyone or, in general, wear it on my sleeve. If you do not practice a black mass or worship Satan, I will respect your religion too and expect the same courtesy in return. I also give very wide berth to those who would push any religion--including mine--on me or anyone else. But I will not tolerate anyone co-opting a religion or a religious holiday for their own use.
If you like the spirit of Christmas but are not Christian, no problem. Erect your own holiday tree, Chanukah Bush, Winter Solstice Tree, or Frosty the Snowman and have a great time. The spirit of Christmas transcends the religious significance of the holiday; good will is not the province of any single religion and is, in fact, independent of religion altogether. Having said that, Christmas is, has always been and will always be first and foremost about Christ. Anyone who did not get (or does not like) the message is free to foam at the mouth, howl at the moon, and to celebrate (or invent) their own holiday to coincide with the Christian Holiday. Americans can celebrate the season any way they wish, or not celebrate it at all. They can rail against the blatant commercialization of Christmas (and I will agree with them on that front). What they cannot do is redefine a High Holy Day for the vast majority of Americans to suit their political, philosophical or religious predilections. Doing is, well, un-American.
Last edited by Victor D. Lopez on Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
joefrank Five Star Member
Number of posts : 8210 Registration date : 2008-11-04 Age : 75 Location : Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:43 am
12/20;/2013
Victor..
Bravo..! My sentiment too...
Cheers....Joe Santa...
Abe F. March Five Star Member
Number of posts : 10768 Registration date : 2008-01-26 Age : 85 Location : Germany
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:26 pm
Agree with Joe.
Don Stephens Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1355 Registration date : 2008-01-25 Age : 86 Location : Wherever my hat's hanging today!
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:25 am
Victor,
Well Said.
alj Five Star Member
Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:31 am
Great responses, all. Thanks for participating.
Victor D. Lopez Four Star Member
Number of posts : 984 Registration date : 2012-02-01 Location : New York
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:43 am
Thank you, friends. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.
dkchristi Five Star Member
Number of posts : 8594 Registration date : 2008-12-29 Location : Florida
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:28 pm
Are we done here? When so much of the world is not Christian, it strikes me as pretty ego-centric to think the western, Christian traditions at Christmas are sacrosanct or nothing at all. They just are. They certainly harm no one and bring joy to many. There certainly needs to be more joy in the world!
There are some Christians who do not celebrate Christmas because it is not the real birthday of Christ. That's fine for them too.
Many people in the U.S. who are not Christian celebrate the Santa Claus and symbolic elements that emphasize family and dining together and sharing gifts and presents. How fun! Of course they are welcome.
Politically correct? To whom? Let the joy ring in from wherever it comes. I have no idea what religion has it right or if any do. I'm happy to enjoy the joy that each wishes to share with me.
Victor D. Lopez Four Star Member
Number of posts : 984 Registration date : 2012-02-01 Location : New York
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:06 pm
I'm done. Yes.
Don Stephens Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1355 Registration date : 2008-01-25 Age : 86 Location : Wherever my hat's hanging today!
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:43 am
To All My Liberal Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.
I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2014, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great.
Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any of country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith of sexual preference of the wishee.
..........................................
And to all my Conservative and Republican Friends:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!
God Bless America!
Thank You,
alj Five Star Member
Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:10 pm
alice Five Star Member
Number of posts : 15672 Registration date : 2008-10-22 Age : 76 Location : Redmond, WA
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:24 pm
As far as I am concerned, all of this hoopla over a greeting is ridiculous. Act in accordance with your wish and all should be well.
Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:18 pm
Merry Christmas everyone!
dkchristi Five Star Member
Number of posts : 8594 Registration date : 2008-12-29 Location : Florida
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:22 pm
The celebration of Christmas is not relevant to political party that I know.
Abe F. March Five Star Member
Number of posts : 10768 Registration date : 2008-01-26 Age : 85 Location : Germany
Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas?? Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:35 pm
Don, enjoyed your post. I think you covered all bases.
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Subject: Re: What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas??
What has this to do with the Spirit of Christmas??