The NECST (Never Ending Create Space Thread)

Today, I received this email message:

Quote :

Are you ready to promote your book this holiday season? Now you can take advantage of our October special and save 20-35% on your volume book order. The more print copies you order, the more you can save.

Order Quantity         You Save*
1,000-1,499               20%
1,500-1,999               30%
2,000 and above         35%

Here's how to initiate your print order:
 
Step 1 - Email CreateSpace at info@createspace.com by October 31, 2013 with "Volume Order Savings" in the subject line.

This is outrageous! This is back door, back to front, upside down, through the back passage, flowing in the wrong direction skulduggery! How dare Amazon offer their self-published authors deals that will get them into debt? Don't they know that the deals corrupt innocent minds and break novice authors' hearts?

We should unite against this kind of uppity self-publishing platform. Who do these Amazon people think they are? They are heartless. They should be drummed out of publishing.

Spread the word, ask the most anti-author-abuse website on the planet to join in and set up their own NESCT to help all defenceless, self-published authors. AW, it's the least they can do to help all those struggling, new authors, isn't it? Anyone for popcorn?

Anyone wanting those numbers of copies would do better to go offset. Better quality, lower cost.

Are you not outraged, Al? Asking authors to buy 100 copies is considered to be ripping off authors and misleading them into buying books they will not be able to sell. It's back to front publishing, apparently. Misleading authors into believing that their books will appear in bookstores, which only happens if the authors themselves make arrangements with the bookstore managers to place then there, is deception.

CreateSpace make authors believe that their books will sell millions by appearing on Amazon, and even more millions if the self-published authors pay for wider distribution. But this won't happen. Self-published authors are being misled. Clearly, the only way to make a profit is to bulk buy at a discount and trudge around the country selling the books. We are not talking a pifling 50 books. The minimum discount applies to 1,000 books. Scam! Scam! Scam! Authors beware!!!!!!!!!!!

It is buyer beware these days.  There are no limits to corporate greed.  Occasionally I find a legitimate business with ethics.  It's such a relief.  One is the vanity press, Barringer Publications.  They don't take a book even for "vanity" unless they believe it will sell.  Their cost includes books, but the quantity is rational. 

My original small press publisher, L & L Dreamspell was another company with integrity.  Their contract was simple, their quarterly royalty statement detailed, and when the company ended because of the death of a partner, the remaining partner has continued to support the authors with every means at her disposal.  She set them up with referrals to publishers, returned all copy that she could locate (I received my pdf, my doc, my cover art - the whole works with only the request to remove their specific references, ISBN, etc.).  She left up the yahoo group so the authors can communicate with each other.  She never ran "specials" for us to buy our own books but encouraged sales through vendors. 

Then along comes Create Space and copies the PA model of gouging unsuspecting, excited, new authors whose works have not been vetted, simply published. 

I had a school mate who had a garage with 1500 hard copies of his very interesting family history - of interest to family members because no one in the tree was famous.  He gave me one - it's a very pretty book.  I glanced at the pictures (very expensive, full of photographs).

Funny, but I was always under the impression that people who go to CreateSpace already knew they were self-publishing, no?

I'm speechless.  I think you're right Shelagh, they have copied PA's promotion to authors.

When an author goes to Create-Space they know that Amazon.com will carry their books and that is a benefit. 

A friend of mine the other day said she wants to publish a book of poems.  It's for gifts to family and friends but she'll put it up on Amazon.com just in case someone else wants one.  She is a good candidate for Create Space.  However, if she decides her poems are worthy of many sales, she could fall prey to their "discounts." 

I'm sophisticated.  I fell prey to PA "discounts" and never again so low-priced until I still have about 25 books left...some are needed for promotions at writing conferences, etc.  Not 1000's.

Ok, I'm defining "fall prey" differently. If a person knows they're self publishing and knows that all marketing is on them, what's wrong with CreateSpace advertising discounts for bulk buys, and authors buying them?

I don't see this as analogous to PA at all. PA always implied it was a traditional publisher who would market books.

LC wrote:

Ok, I'm defining "fall prey" differently. If a person knows they're self publishing and knows that all marketing is on them, what's wrong with CreateSpace advertising discounts for bulk buys, and authors buying them?

It's pressure sales, apparently. Offering discounts for a set number of books implies that the author should be able to sell those books easily. A new author receives an email saying special discount on 50 books and even higher discounts on 100 books. The new author thinks, this offer wouldn't be made if books didn't sell, therefore I'll buy.

CreateSpace are implying that authors are regularly selling thousands of books. They are not issuing a warning with their sales pitch saying:

1. Only take advantage of this offer if you give talks regularly or are about to go on a lecture tour and you are certain that you will be able to sell a thousand copies of your book.

2. From our extensive experience, we should warn authors of works of fiction that selling books to family and friends might prove to be difficult. While friends are willing to read and offer feedback on your work, they are most likely to be embarrassed when asked to PAY to read your work.

LC wrote:

I don't see this as analogous to PA at all. PA always implied it was a traditional publisher who would market books.

From PA's FAQ page:

"Question: What are my obligations as an author?
Answer: An author's obligations are few, since he/she already contributes the lion's part by having written the book. We are very conscious of that fact. No book was written overnight. It has cost most authors a year or longer to write it, and often many more years to let the creative process well up.
   We are also conscious of the fact that seeing your book in print is a life-defining moment. It is something an author never forgets for the rest of their lives. It is something to enjoy and celebrate. Therefore, the obligations should be minimal.
   The author has really only one obligation: to provide us with the completed final-version manuscript. We'll take it from there.
   Does this mean that the author must sit on his/her hands after signing the contract? Not exactly. We expect the author to actively promote the book whenever and wherever possible. Once the book is in publication, and booksellers have access to it, author promotion becomes important. PublishAmerica often offers special post-publication promotion opportunities at a fee. Those are optional and at the author's sole discretion, e.g. when we attend important trade shows such as Book Expo America or the Frankfurt Book Fair in Germany."

Quote :

CreateSpace are implying that authors are regularly selling thousands of books. They are not issuing a warning with their sales pitch saying:

I'm not seeing that implication. No warning is needed. It's up to a self-published author to know if he or she needs all those books.

That PA quote you posted, OTOH, was very misleading. Does CreateSpace preface its sale with similar BS?

LC wrote:

Quote :

CreateSpace are implying that authors are regularly selling thousands of books. They are not issuing a warning with their sales pitch saying:

I'm not seeing that implication. No warning is needed. It's up to a self-published author to know if he or she needs all those books.

Same with PA, no warnings necessary. It's up to an author to know if he or she needs all those books.

Why do you see it as okay for CreateSpace to send out emails asking authors to buy their own books but not okay for PA to do the same thing (even though PA offers bigger discounts on smaller bulk sales than CreateSpace is offering)?

LC wrote:

That PA quote you posted, OTOH, was very misleading. Does CreateSpace preface its sale with similar BS?

From CreateSpace's Basics of Book Marketing:

Marketing is Communication

First, it is important to understand the difference between marketing and selling, two aspects which are often confused by new self-published authors.

Selling is a transaction: one person pays to acquire a product from another. That's not what marketing is about, and you'll be much more successful if you realize that you don't actually have to sell your book at all.

Your duty as an author/publisher is to market the book. Marketing is communication; the process of taking the ideas you've put into your book and communicating those ideas - and your own passion for the subject - to as many people who might be interested in that subject as possible.

How do you communicate about your subject? This is the basis of your marketing efforts, so it makes sense to pay attention to the parameters of your marketing. For instance:

1. Identify who your audience is. Who will respond to the subject you communicate in your book?
   
   
2. Speak to those people in the language/terminology they're used to using on this subject.
   
   
3. Elaborate on how your approach to this subject might benefit them. Communicate how they will be informed, entertained, or educated by your treatment of the subject.
   
   
4. Finally, demonstrate the results by showing how these ideas have changed your own approach to the subject or how they have affected others.
   

10/10/2013

                   I think the best site so far for publishing is " Smashwords," my books and
                   E Books are doing better than Amazon...

                                                      Cheers.......Joe........

Quote :

First, it is important to understand the difference between marketing and selling, two aspects which are often confused by new self-published authors.

That's where I see the difference. CreateSpace acknowledges itself as a service for self-publishers. The stuff you posted from it was information for new self-publishers. Nowhere does it say or imply how successful the authors will be.

PA, OTOH, pretends to be a traditional publisher, and gives (or gave, I don't know what their current schtick its) the same information under the guise that it's what traditionally published authors do.

I like Createspace quite a bit. I got the same email from them with the sales thing, but I've always understood that I only have to get the number of copies I actually need, and the price is very reasonable, unlike PA.

I'm not sure what people are looking for when they decide to self publish. Hell, I've known what I was doing since before I signed the two books with PA. Those I did for a particular reason. The ones I've published through Createspace do generate sales on Amazon, and as I have most listed with Smashwords as well, they generate sales there as well.

When you self publish, what exactly are you expecting to achieve? Self publish seems to mean that you are publishing your work yourself, and the fact is Createspace has just about the best program around for that purpose. They do a good job, the ISBN is cheap, and I only have to pay a few dollars per copy, in any amount that I want to purchase. What else are we supposed to expect when we self publish?

I remember the PAMB. Innocents to the slaughter.  I did not have a clue.  I believed a publisher wanted my book.  All the behaviors of editors and cover artists were like I was important.  It felt wonderful.  I sold hundreds of books at signings at $35 a piece from my sheer enthusiasm and belief in myself and my published book.

Then, the more sophisticated writers started filling me in on what PA really was and that my published book didn't mean anything.  Then I was embarrassed to take it to the restaurants and convince them to let me put them on the tables and talk to customers.  I bought a lot of books for those presentations, including book fairs and writers' conferences.   Book stores actually shelved my book from my strong persistence that it was, indeed, a hot seller. 

As time went by, book stores started saying they didn't want to stock PA books, specifically PA books, because so many were full of errors and poorly written.  I was stuck with boxes of books that have been sold eventually, but when I lost faith in my publisher's opinion of my book, I lost faith in myself as a novelist.

I fortunately had a satisfying career at the time and the book was a sideline.  I could let it go.  But I sold many of those books at nearly what I paid buying them from PA.

If I could go through such a variety of emotions regarding publication of my book, I imagine people who believed they would have a real income from writing had a major setback.  I remember some on the PAMB who were advised to buy their books on a credit card and then pay it off when the books were sold so they could take advantage of PA's "sales."

Again, at the beginning of this thread I said "buyer beware."  However, if some businesses can be up front with customers, others can also.

Well, DK, that's impressive that you sold hundreds of books at $35 each! You probably should have gone into sales, seriously!

Shelagh wrote:

Are you not outraged, Al?

No. Nor am I surprised.

LC wrote:

Quote :

First, it is important to understand the difference between marketing and selling, two aspects which are often confused by new self-published authors.

That's where I see the difference. CreateSpace acknowledges itself as a service for self-publishers. The stuff you posted from it was information for new self-publishers. Nowhere does it say or imply how successful the authors will be.

PA, OTOH, pretends to be a traditional publisher, and gives (or gave, I don't know what their current schtick its) the same information under the guise that it's what traditionally published authors do.

There is no difference to the final product if you self-publish with Lulu.com or allow Publish America to produce a book for you.

Through Lulu, you have to format the interior, produce the book cover design and upload the files to their site. They print exactly what you send. If you require help, there are editors to help you with the layout and cover design -- but you have to pay.

With PublishAmerica, the first thing you do after signing the contract is answer and return an author questionnaire (same as a commercial publisher) to be sent with the full manuscript. Then they run a grammar/spell check. If the manuscript is covered in green and red underlines, the manuscript is sent back and the author asked to clean it up. Some go onto the PAMB and ask why the manuscript has all these green lines and kind souls (like Carol Troestler) offer to help them to tidy up their work (Ann recently assisted a colleague with a commercially published book, for which she was paid).

PA do a light edit, format the book interior and send it back to the author, who's given a fortnight to proofread. When all the editing is finished, the pdf file is sent to the cover art department. The cover is then sent to the author for approval. Once approved, a release date is set and the book goes on sale on the PA website. Six weeks later, the book appears on Amazon and eventually is offered for sale on forty or more book selling websites.  

No costs to the author are incurred from start to finish. The author is offered a once only opportunity to buy the books at a discount of 55%. I don't know how many books need to be bought to qualify at the present moment. The will be given the chance to buy at lower discounts for set numbers of books at a later date.

About ISBNs: Both PA and Lulu buy the ISBNs in bulk and are the owners of those numbers. They are free to the authors. When the books appear online, the publisher is attributed to the ISBN holder, i.e., PA and Lulu. If self-publishers want to own the ISBN and appear on Amazon as the publisher, they have to buy the ISBN at the rate set by Bowker. Similarly, if self-publishers want their book to appear on sellers' websites other than Amazon, they have to pay for distribution.

The difference between the two companies: one does all the work at no charge; the other does none of the work and charges if self-publishers require assistance.

All the PA authors (apart from DK, and possibly Abe) on this forum, knew exactly what they were getting: a book published at no cost that would help them to learn more about the business with no financial outlay. DK thought she was a "proper author" -- although I'm not sure that the process she adopted of selling the books herself fits with the image of herself as a "real" author. Abe thought that he could distribute the book himself but failed to make the necessary arrangements with PA and feels let down because of this. Again, I don't see how this kind of author intervention sits with the idea of PA being a "real" publisher.

If you take into consideration that PA authors had differing views of themselves and their publisher, then there are probably as many different reasons for publishing with PA as there are authors.

Shelagh, when I joined PA, I never had the thought to distribute the book myself.  I expected it to be placed in the 10,000 "Brick and mortar" stores as they indicated.  Since they did nothing to promote my book and only made it available on-line via Amazon, did I try other methods to distribute the book.  I got no cooperation from PA in that regard.  I would never use PA again.

I started with PA in 2005 on the recommendation of a friend in California who published with them and was ecstatic.   She knew I had a manuscript that was several years old as she had read part of it so my info about PA came from her.  I had done no research on publishing, I had just been writing the book for many years to "someday publish."  I was not publishing the book for relatives or friends.  A colleague of mine started writing the book with me in 1979.  She was supposed to do the historical parts, I was doing the characters.  We were writing the "Shogun" of Korea at the time.

We left Korea and our enthusiasm for the book changed.  In 1980 I started writing more on my own and she thought she might still contribute.  In 1988, I lived on a sailboat and was concerned about the material so far written and the research stuff being lost at sea, so I sent it all to my friend.

She later wrote that she had a flood in her house and it was all lost, and since she hadn't written any of it, the loss meant nothing to her.  So, I started over again.  Lost was about the equivalent of 200 published pages.  I wrote for three years from 1988-1990 and put it away.

We had five hurricanes pass through here in around 2004-2005.  I had a bunch of boxes I had recollected with research material to someday "finish" the novel of the century.  I decided I had to finish so it would not be lost again in a hurricane.  I finished in 2005.  My friend from Korea and I lost each other after her flood and my sailing.  I have no idea where she is.  I had hoped that by publishing the novel she would find me.  The title was still the one we picked.  The content changed drastically because my historical abilities were not as extensive as hers.  She was a genius (documented) and had a photographic memory.  I had to add different parts because I thought it had to be 500 pages to be a "real novel" like those historical ones I loved to read.  My final manuscript was the equivalent of over 1000 published pages. 

My friend in California knew about my writing because she read bits of it.  She recommended PublishAmerica.  It was the first and only publisher I approached.  I did no research.  I never knew anyone who published.  I was swept into the aura that if the book was published at no cost to me, that meant it was a traditional publisher.

I was not ignorant.  I was not uninformed.  I had a significant career in education and held statewide administrative positions. I had begun a Ph.D. in Educational Leadership.  I wrote grants, technical manuals, curriculum, publicity, marketing materials, journal articles and more that were held in reasonable esteem.  I had been an editor for a major CPA firm.  I was not a dunce.

The novel was a sideline and I had only the time it took to finalize it and ship it off to PA.  That was a lot of time as it was.  I had no critique group or writers group or forum or any such helpful source of awareness.  I wrote a novel.  PA said it was great.  They provided an excellent editor who spent hours on the phone with me and on the internet making changes to content as well as finding errors (though there were very few).  The final product read well.  The cover was based on my preferences and I loved the red.  It was not a cover for ebooks, however, showing poorly online.  It was a book shelf cover.

I believed I had a real publisher right up until the PAMB started hinting about all their disappointments and the monitors banned those who reported same.  The first year my confidence was very high.  Every local and regional newspaper carried info about me and writing the book.  My school district promoted my book.  I had book signings every weekend and if there wasn't a signing there was a book fair or writers conference.  My books were selling on Amazon.com The book stores had them on their shelves and they sold off the shelves.  They looked great on the shelf!  My book marks and postcards were at their counters.

That honeymoon lasted about a year.  By then, I started researching and listening to the posting people on the PAMB who were very unhappy about the lack of marketing from PA and more.  I had spent quite a bit on post cards, business cards, book marks and display materials.  I had exhausted every regional book store and all the regional and local newspapers.  It was no longer a "newly released" novel and that pr opportunity was gone.  I lost confidence in myself as a novelist when I realized that all the great reviews were just opinions. PA was not a publisher.  The fact that they "selected" my novel to publish did not mean my novel had merit.

As I became more and more aware of the difficulties of keeping my momentum going after the first year, I lost my positive feelings about PA.  However, I never had expectations from them.  I believed I needed to promote my book.  The book stores were always full of authors promoting their books.  So were the conferences and fairs.  Promoting my book with other authors, many of them famous, seemed logical.  My only expectation from PA was a fair price on my book (they finally dropped it to $25.00 after many complaints from me) and that they had "selected" my novel as the next great seller.  In fact, their goal was to sell it to me.  Other than those two items, which were my own expectations, I felt they did everything that was clear in their contract once I read it thoroughly.  Other things were intimated but not clearly.

I still think PA is a great opportunity for people who don't worry about PA baggage and fully understand they are self-publishing with PA and will then need to buy and sell their own books.  They also need to know that most PA authors don't sell more than a few books to people they know because we all have a story to tell.  Everyone doesn't want to read our story.  PA doesn't care who reads it.  That's why authors wanting fame and fortune need to have their work vetted by a traditional agent and then have it pitched to traditional publishers.  That's a general statement.  There are more and more exceptions and those exceptions will continue to grow because the Internet and instant e-books have changed everything.

The turning point where PA was a disaster for me was the turning point in my opinion of my book and of my own ability as a fiction novelist based on all the bad news I received as I researched, participated in forums, etc. that spoke so badly of the stupid authors sucked into the PA koolaid.  I became embarrassed at the high price of a trade paperback.  I hated the PA name on the cover that meant I was not a novelist, just another PA sucker.  I destroyed my own momentum by a change in mind.  I became obsessed with the Amazon ratings, up and down. I stopped booking signings, knocking on doors, promoting in general.  Strangely, sales continued steady.  I had a web site that was attractive and pulled traffic.  I collaborated with other PA authors to help each other promote.  There were spits of higher sales, but my personal feeling about my manuscript turned into a book became one of perpetual doubt.  It's called a self-fulfilling prophesy.  While I believed in my publisher, my abilities and my novel's potential for success, I sold an over-priced trade paperback everywhere, with crowds of people at my signings and newspapers talking about me.  I joined every social network so the book was everywhere and selling well.  I felt alive and successful.  In about six months into the second year, the bubble burst from self-doubt and disappointment that I was "hoodwinked" by PA.

I think there is a big difference between publishing fiction through PA and non-fiction, especially when you know you have an interested audience for your topic, and that there were not many books already available.

I knew about the negative publicity before I signed my contract, because it was showing up every time I googled the term, Publish America. I came close to not using them, but after a few more rejections from traditional publishers who still use offset, that indicated the editors liked the book, but didn't think they could sell enough copies to make any money from it, PA started looking better and better.

The original PA edition of the book is more professionally done. I am still learning how to upload and edit on my own. I listened to PA when they said that they owned the format, and went back to an earlier word file. The book was originally written on Word 97. Several years and several computers later, I found editing the resource and endnotes sections extremely frustrating.

However, I am making more money on the createspace edition because the royalties are so much higher. Fewer individual sales and less than half the price, and I'm still making more money.

I'm not sure about Amazon's latest thing - the Matchbook?Bookmatch? (Can't remember the exact name) program where, if someone buys a paperback, they have an option to buy the Kindle at a reduced price. I decided to try it. What I'm seeing after the fact (my bad) is that I make less on the combined sales than I would make on a full-priced Kindle alone.

I've also noticed from the beginning of the 2nd edition Createspace version is that the $25 I paid for extended distribution hasn't been all that worth it because the royalty from those sales is so minute.

I'm not sure I would go with PA today because there are so many more options available, but I believe it was the right thing for that book at that time, for all the reasons that Shelagh has been pointing out.

I have no experience with PA, but I do have a lot of experience with traditional publishers. Everything that Shelagh describes about PA's publishing process is about what one would expect from a traditional publisher. So is much of what DK describes.

Although not the subject of this thread, here is what seems different between PA and traditional publishers based on the descriptions provided above and elsewhere:

• A traditional publisher will not publish everything submitted to them. Apparently PA does.
  
• A traditional publisher pays advances. PA does not.
  
• A traditional publisher provides free author copies, the number of which is specified in the contract and is negotiable. Apparently PA does not.
  
• A traditional publisher markets to some extent the books into libraries and bookstores. Apparently PA does not.
  
• A traditional publisher accepts returns from retailers. PA does not (I think).
  
• Traditionally published books kind of disappear from the marketplace if they do not sell. PA books are on the market forever.
  
• A traditional publisher does not market the book to its authors. Apparently PA does.
  
• I don't know PA's terms for reversions of rights. I seem to remember someone saying it was after seven years. A traditional publisher retains the rights as long as the book is selling. When it is no longer profitable for the publisher to keep the title in its catalog, irrespective of the length of time it's been published, the publisher will, at the author's request, revert rights. Authors have the option of buying excess copies at a reduced rate and, in some cases, the offset printing plates.

The differences between PA and POD companies such as Lulu and Createspace are what Shelagh describes. Additional ones are:

• The cost to the author of copies of the book.
  
• The author's ability with POD companies to control the retail price.
  

Now, back on topic, Createspace's quantity discounts are not that extreme. They are applied to the author at a cost below the wholesale costs that CS offers to retailers. For example, an author's copy for a typical novel is usually in the three or four dollar range depending on the format and page count. The wholesale cost to retailers is a percentage of the retail price. (But you get royalties on those sales, so that might even out.) My guess is that if you order 1,000 copies, they'll make an offset run to reduce their costs, which is why they can offer the discount.

This is one reason why you ought to have your own ISBN and be the publisher of record if you publish with Lulu or CS. If you want 1,000 copies or more for whatever reason, you can take it to a printer and get it for a lot less than the POD company's discounted author copy cost.

Shelagh's outrage seems to have a bit of tongue in cheek. I suspect she's simply pointing out to the PA naysayers that their beloved Createspace is sinking to the same level of author marketing. I could be wrong about that.

I wrote Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine in 2002. I sent out the opening chapters to publishers that published children's novels. I received encouragement with the rejections. Scholastic UK held the book for months. I phoned them several times and wrote to them. Eventually, they decided not to go ahead. Some would say that I should have waited longer. The Potter books were up to the fourth in the series and kids were waiting for the fifth. Nothing else was selling very much apart from books written by established children's writers. Many journalists and media folk were trying to jump on the bandwagon, and the market was flooded with children's novels.

My cousin works in media selling, he's a cartoonist and greeting's card designer. I asked his advice about selling the book online. He said that you could could sell practically anything on the 'net. I joined teenage forums and asked the members to read the first five chapters (one at a time with feedback after each chapter). The book was very well received. By chance, an eighteen-year-old had just published a book through Publish America and was advertising the fact on one of the forums. I visited her website and followed the link to Publish America. I read everything I could find on their website and decided that, if an eighteen-year-old could get her work accepted, so could I. I filled in the submission form and waited for a reply. When the email arrived saying that PA would publish the book, I felt enormously relieved. Now, the book would appear in print and I would not have to learn how to do it for myself. I had no expectations. I did not think that this was going to turn me into an author. My husband and I laughed when the dollar advance arrived; it confirmed our understanding of what not to expect from the publisher.  

The bashers did the same to me, DK. I don't give them the time of day. Apparently, they still hate me. Too bad. If word gets back to me about the things they are saying, I don't want to know. Why would I want to make virtual people, who try to torment me, into real people? I turn off the computer and they disappear into cyberspace. Out of sight, out of mind. They haven't succeeded in diminishing me in any way. I hold the same opinion about my work as I did in 1998 when I first began to write. It isn't a high opinion, but enough to give me the confidence to share my work with the world. If readers enjoy reading my books, I couldn't be more pleased. If they don't, I won't be losing any sleep over it. Pleasing everyone is impossible.

I sold very few books published by PA. I was not a great success and made them very little money. I hope the support I've given them over the years in some way repays them by swelling the ranks of those PA authors who do help the company remain profitable.

Al Stevens wrote:

Shelagh's outrage seems to have a bit of tongue in cheek. I suspect she's simply pointing out to the PA naysayers that their beloved Createspace is sinking to the same level of author marketing. I could be wrong about that.

On the other hand, you could be right.  

Quote :

Shelagh's outrage seems to have a bit of tongue in cheek

Ya think??  

Al, how are you using the term, POD? as publish on demand or print on demand? It is my understanding that, during the past seven years, more and more traditional publishers are either including or moving to digital printing.