National Debt-This is how the deal will work be prepared...!

Abe, will you be coming back to America to participate?

Shouldn't we leave the talk of battle to the younger generations - the one's who would actually be doing the fighting?

Ann

And why would we leave the fighting to someone else? Hell, it's my SS check they're threatening to stop, not some 20 year old kids. None of us are too old to take a stand, or take up a weapon. And, Ann, don't worry, there's always someone willing to fight for you guys who want the benefits but don't want to actually do anything to keep them.

I wonder if those devoted to hate talk radio, FOX stations with Rupert Murdock and his thieves and rag mag pack running things, I wonder if people listening to those stations finally get it that the richest man in media, a $billionaire, runs those stations for his own personal gain, both in political and financial power.

No, I guess not. Those who are intellectually lazy find it easy to quote FOX sound bites.

I am not saying that other media are worth listening to either. FOX is just the most hateful, divisive and supportive of destructive ideas of the bunch. They are the most brilliant in creating sound bites from nothing and making them sound like something heinous. I credit the genius behind their support of candidates that are the worst examples of this country's promise.

There are many ways to fight ignorance and destructive political processes. Each of us has our own philosophy to follow. For some, it's a non-violent march; for others its a letter writing campaign; for others, blogs; for others, the threat of violent behavior; for others, the power of words and speeches; and for some, the encouragement of those with the ability to make a more physical or vocal presence.

E. Don Harpe wrote:

And why would we leave the fighting to someone else? Hell, it's my SS check they're threatening to stop, not some 20 year old kids. None of us are too old to take a stand, or take up a weapon. And, Ann, don't worry, there's always someone willing to fight for you guys who want the benefits but don't want to actually do anything to keep them.

E. Don, I've always had a lot of respect for you, and still do. It doesn't matter whether we are on the same side (which has been much of the time in a relatively long past) or expressing different viewpoints, as now.

There are more ways to solve problems than fighting over who is right. That includes fighting with old friends.

Peace.

Ann

7/14/2011


Ann..


....


Cheers..Joe....

E. Don Harpe wrote:

And why would we leave the fighting to someone else? Hell, it's my SS check they're threatening to stop, not some 20 year old kids. None of us are too old to take a stand, or take up a weapon. And, Ann, don't worry, there's always someone willing to fight for you guys who want the benefits but don't want to actually do anything to keep them.

E Don,

Fight with your pen. You are very able. Contact Boehner.

http://www.speaker.gov/Contact/

I'm not wanting to fight with you at all, Ann, or anyone else here, and I think we are still on the same side. Most of us, anyway.

I agree with what all of you say about using words to wage the war. But when words fail to bring any results, even to get any attention, as they have been doing in the last 10 years or so, then perhaps it really is time for action. If that is so, then I honestly don't want anyone to fight my fight for me. Didn't ask them to in the 60's, won't ask them now. I am old, but not invalid.

Your post, the one I responded to, seemed to indicate that you are not willing to stand up for what you believe, indeed that you are ready for someone else to wage battle for you. I don't think that's so, but that's what it looks like. And, while we are all aware that Abe doesn't live in the states, I think asking him if he would come back to join in the fight implied something that you weren't intending to imply.

There have always been those who believe protest with words will work, and I wish it were so, but words without any power behind them are pretty much meaningless. Many of us have been writing litterally hundreds of letters stating what we believe, even going so far as to say we won't vote for someone again, and it hasn't done any good. In spite of all of the letters, in spite of the strong feelings we presented in post after post everywhere we could find to post, Bush continued to do exactly what he wanted to do. The fact that his actions were hurting average everyday Americans had no impact at all on him. I voted for Obama, but I fear that he is doing exactly the same thing.

They listen to one thing. Power. Right now the wealthy have it, working people don't, and so the wealthy continue to run American they way they want to. But the time is approaching when we will have to excert our power in other ways, and if that power comes only with a physical show of some kind of force, then so be it.

No, I don't want to fight with anyone here, for I see us as all being in the same boat. And that boat is sinking. We have a few options. We can jump out and swim, we can bale water, or we can stick our fingers in the holes and do what we can to plug them. The thing is, all three options require action.

Now, as in the past, words without action means very little.

[quote="alice"][quote="E. Don Harpe"]

E Don,

Fight with your pen. You are very able. Contact Boehner.

[/quote]

Alice, contacting this idiot would be like contacting a tree and asking it to stop growing leaves. Boehner is a racist right wing tool who believes in nothing but rights for the wealthy. He's not on the side of the American people.

I've written hundreds of letters to just about everyone I can find to write to, and I might as well print them on paper, and toss them out along the side of the interstate. They don't care.

I will continue to write, but I'm about ready to try some other approach.

[quote="E. Don Harpe"]

alice wrote:

E. Don Harpe wrote:

E Don,

Fight with your pen. You are very able. Contact Boehner.

Alice, contacting this idiot would be like contacting a tree and asking it to stop growing leaves. Boehner is a racist right wing tool who believes in nothing but rights for the wealthy. He's not on the side of the American people.

I've written hundreds of letters to just about everyone I can find to write to, and I might as well print them on paper, and toss them out along the side of the interstate. They don't care.

I will continue to write, but I'm about ready to try some other approach.

I just wrote to him again--- for the third time. Tell him what you think of him--he might wake up.

E. Don wrote:

Quote :

Your post, the one I responded to, seemed to indicate that you are not
willing to stand up for what you believe, indeed that you are ready for
someone else to wage battle for you. I don't think that's so, but that's
what it looks like. And, while we are all aware that Abe doesn't live
in the states, I think asking him if he would come back to join in the
fight implied something that you weren't intending to imply.

I am only trying to point out the reality of the situation. I admire both of you tremendously. You both have the courage to speak up, and the intelligence to see the injustice in this situation.

My children, both sexes, are all now in their 40's (as of day before yesterday, when my baby turned 40). My only grandchild is two-and-a-half. The fact the she is female no longer makes a difference, but it will be some time before she is old enough to make the choice. Being a female born before the changes that, rightfully, I think, place women in the line of fire, I am clearly not speaking from a personal perspective.

The hard fact is that the burden of such actions would fall on the shoulders of men and women who are much younger than we are.

No insult intended.

Ann

Don,
I appreciate your posts. You talk from your heart and say what you feel. I admire that.

I am prepared to March on Washington if that is planned. I am doing what I can from where I sit. Sending emails, utilizing the I-Net with posts is one way of getting the message out. If that doesn't work, then plan "B" whatever that turns out to be, must be implemented. When one has their back against the wall, it is akin to a caged animal. When fighting for survival, there are no rules.

We are concered citizens. We are fighting for our country. How we fight is an individual matter, but fight we shall!

I personally would rather die than subject anyone to violence. I don't want to kill anyone over money and certainly don't want E. Don or Abe to get killed defending a paycheck.

But what your not seeing is its more than just a paycheck. For my folks, social security is more than a paycheck - its there food, rent, etc, but its even more than that. Dad says its his own govt turning against its citizens, taking away something that the people earned. He feels betrayed by even the thought of the govt stopping his paycheck.

In my younger, politically active Republican days, a group of us who were community advocates put our voice and our money behind a young candidate for the Congress. He spoke well and came from a good family that had the heart of the community in their actions and put money where it would benefit under classes of people.

The money is what made the difference. We were able to help broadcast what a fine young political servant he would be through radio, television, billboards and what was in those days beneficial, mail outs. We wrote checks, we spoke at meetings, we stuffed envelopes. Our grass roots effort included people from all walks of life.

Once he was elected, he ignored the community from which he came and fell immediately into one of the caucus groups with ideas that supported big business and totally ignored the plights of the disenfranchised and less able citizens who fought so hard to get him elected.

He was attractive, well-spoken, well-educated and from an influential family of means but not wealth. He married wealth and power. He was the first in a family of long serving politicians who became rich and famous.

It's a long story to tell my own experience that a concentrated campaign requires bodies and bills - the bigger the monetary denominations the likely the support will get somewhere. The more moneyed people behind the support, the more open the ears of the powerful. Politicians have one goal: re-election. To be re-elected requires money. If you have enough, you can buy your office (the Governor of Florida as an example. I understand there are twelve governors of Republican persuasion who owe their allegiance to big money, not grassroots support.)

lyntx wrote:

But what your not seeing is its more than just a paycheck. For my folks, social security is more than a paycheck - its there food, rent, etc, but its even more than that. Dad says its his own govt turning against its citizens, taking away something that the people earned. He feels betrayed by even the thought of the govt stopping his paycheck.

I see what it is. I earned mine too.

lyntx wrote:

But what your not seeing is its more than just a paycheck. For my folks, social security is more than a paycheck - its there food, rent, etc, but its even more than that. Dad says its his own govt turning against its citizens, taking away something that the people earned. He feels betrayed by even the thought of the govt stopping his paycheck.

I think we all see that, lyntx. It is also important to see where the problem lies.

The conservatives in Congress are refusing to consider doing away with tax cuts and loopholes for the wealthiest Americans. That means that the debt will have to be paid by those who can afford it the least.

And remember. This debt was incurred during the last administration. Our president is doing the best he can to find a fair solution. All he is doing in his latest announcement is pointing out that the problem is real. He is not the one doing the betraying.

Ann

lyntx wrote:

But what your not seeing is its more than just a paycheck. For my folks, social security is more than a paycheck - its there food, rent, etc, but its even more than that. Dad says its his own govt turning against its citizens, taking away something that the people earned. He feels betrayed by even the thought of the govt stopping his paycheck.

With my wife and I both retired, and after losing the retirement fund we had in the 80's due to some very high hospital bills, SS is now our only source of income as well. We also use it to pay rent, food, medicine, insurance, and everything else. If we miss a check we will be in deep trouble. So, yeah, I think I'm seeing pretty well.

alice wrote:

I don't want to kill anyone over money and certainly don't want E. Don or Abe to get killed defending a paycheck.

I was responding to Alice's post about being killed for 'defending a paycheck' like it wasn't that big a deal. To my folks, there paycheck, Social Security, is a big deal, not just a paycheck but there entire lives. with Social Security they can pay rent, buy food and live, so its more than just a paycheck to them and to others.

There are many widows and single persons just scraping by on one SS check. However, I am sick of the news media dwelling on the President's desire to be truthful about the potential consequences and painting him as "threatening."

When I had grants end, no one was certain what the recipient would do. Some held onto the personnel by another financial means; some laid them off; some closed down the grant and started over when it was funded. Those gaps between grants awarded and funded were often legislature delays in reaching decisions; but they changed the direction of many lives.

We always knew who to blame: the legislature. They were the ones who lagged until the last minute not caring about all the uncertain lives they controlled by their indecision.

I repeat: a business run by the Congress would fail for all the lawyer grandstanding with minimum accomplishments; these accomplishments generally from the hard work of staff members who work long hours for considerably less pay and perks.

I have a really hard time believing that SS payments will be halted. It's unfortunate that they're even talking about it, but if that actually happened, we're in far worse shape than anyone's letting one.

Still don't think it will happen, though.

7/15/2011


If that happens, it'll be the end of all their
political careers , seniors all 29 million won't
forget who screwed them over, so Washington
listen carefully, don't ......(and you know the word
I want to use ) with the seniors !! I'm angry !!!!!!!!

Cheers..Joe

LC, that's why I gave the grant example. It's not a matter of can we pay; it's a matter of having the authority to pay. This is a country of laws. The country has obligated more money than the revenues arriving for payments due. If the law does provide to borrow the difference, then something will not be paid.

A good example is Minnesota. They have a balanced budget law. Most of the state services are presently shut down except for a few for which funds were prioritized. The shut down has caused major disruption in businesses and services to citizens.

In the case of the debt limit, this whole ordeal was the Republican attempt to show their power and get something from nothing, but the something would help them in the 2012 election process. It seems that they didn't anticipate the wrath of the country at their posturing and the potential harm they can cause based on what should have been a quick signing of a bill to extend the debt limit to allow the payment of already incurred costs.

Understand also that many of the Republican legislators are funded by ultra conservative organizations who are happy to shut down the government so long as it increases Republican control to limit government regulations and promote their agenda, often religious issues from the far right that are not the business of government.