National Debt-This is how the deal will work be prepared...!

I don't know. I am seeing something good here. I am seeing more and more people waking up to what is happening. I see desperate conservatives trying to hold on to their old ways while the world is changing around them. And more and more people, every day, are seeing the "elite" for what they really are. That could very well lead to some positive changes. Like Alice said, we are not powerless victims. We can still speak up, and we can still vote. Our voices can be heard without our having to resort to violence.

Just me and my hunches.

Ann

I heard a very conservative church member say today she felt that her belief in peace and love of her fellow man could not allow her to follow the republican party anymore. She said from all she could pull out of all the lies that are circulating, President Obama seems to be attempting the impossible - to do the right thing for the majority of Americans instead of the few. She said there are too many hurting people to take away programs that feed them and help children with health needs or frighten the elderly. Those with excess wealth need to pony up and accept the higher taxes, the end of their tax loopholes and face their responsibility. They need to hire with the trillions of dollars they are holding back to keep the employment stats low to hurt the President while hurting the country at the same time.

I have summarized her comments as I was eavesdropping as she said her friends were angry with her because they were against having a black president and would do anything to get their own kind back in power. She was feeling disappointed in seeing this side of long term acquaintances with whom she thought she had so much in common. However, as a person of conscience, she had to behave in the way her heart and mind directs, and its in the way of concern for others, not just her own needs.

I stepped up and apologized for eavesdropping and thanked her for helping me feel more comfortable with the conflicting thoughts that I have and the difficulty I have communicating with my friends. She said she was amazed that spiritual people could continue to identify with a party that shows no evidence of concern for the majority of U.S. citizens but rather appears self-serving, bigoted and willing to say anything and do anything to harm the progress of the current President.

We also talked about the media empire controlled by Rupert Murdock - and the hate mongering sound bites that are so repetitious on FOX affiliated stations owned by his empire, the one that's on its way down because his newspaper group (and who else I wonder) operated outside the law (which comes from the top).

The bottom line of our conversation is that thinking people need to look into their hearts and use their intelligence to sift through the garbage and vote for and support those people who have the country at heart. So far as I know, President Obama doesn't have $billions that he needs to protect. He has a normal family and came from a background of service to people in need. I vote for him to represent my interests and the interests of the lower and middle classes - the majority of U.S. citizens.

alj wrote:

I don't know. I am seeing something good here. I am seeing more and more people waking up to what is happening. I see desperate conservatives trying to hold on to their old ways while the world is changing around them. And more and more people, every day, are seeing the "elite" for what they really are. That could very well lead to some positive changes. Like Alice said, we are not powerless victims. We can still speak up, and we can still vote. Our voices can be heard without our having to resort to violence.

Just me and my hunches.

Ann

I love your hunches.

DK,

How nice that the lady is waking up. I did, you did and that means more people will.
It takes a while. but a thinking person will call foul. There is hope.

My problem is that everyone I know is mired in the propaganda or believing that their meager assets are better protected if President Obama is removed from office. I have no friends who will be voting for President Obama except for people on this forum. I was always a staunch Republican because I believe in fiscal responsibility and the need to support small businesses so they grow. I suffered with the religious right faction but started to have problems as that faction became more fanatic and vocal. I don't believe in over regulation by the government, but none has brought this country to a two-class society; greed and lack of ethics demands regulation. I want the smartest and best running the country. If they meet the requirements to govern, that's all that matters to me. In this diverse country, we need even more diversity in our representation.

As my awareness grew, I hear the subliminal prejudice in my acquaintances and their fear about the demographics changing. I don't care a whit about the changing demographics. I've lived in many countries where I was the odd one. Right behavior and an open heart and mind lead to acceptance in any culture. I love my country and I see in diversity the strength, innovation and creativity that could save the middle class - but it needs to be supported, not hated.

Of course my conservative roots believes government needs an overhaul with improvements in efficiency and culling out programs that no longer fit our economy. That said, I do not mean to deny needed services to those who deserve them. I do believe in sliding scale payment for everyone as a matter of pride. Habitat for Humanity is one of my favorite examples. The private sector should care for less able people; since they don't, the government must.

I prefer the private sector as the service provider; but the greed and lack of ethics displayed by the profit at all costs group makes it necessary to keep government services where there's more controls.

7/11/2011


I'm ashamed of my own country ! I Give up ! I'm
researching Italy or Spain to live, I can't believe
how this country is going down the toilet ! The
politicians don't give a dam, it's a lost cause....


Cheers..Joe

GOP or GO-Pee?
The Poor are getting Pissed on.

The money got pissed away. Pissing on Obama is the current strategy. Make him fail so they can step up to the plate and save the country. Yeah, right. Getting pissed off may be the only way to stop them. That does not necessarily mean physical violence. A verbal thrashing or the use of the pen (the sword) are weapons that can be used, as we are doing on this forum.

No other country is any better. At least in this country we do have the ability to speak our minds and put action into political involvement. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of money to influence money people. I remember my former spouse always said the measure of a man is the measure of his wealth. People without wealth made poor choices. I would rather say different choices. The one we did not control was the family into which we were born, the country in which that family lived, or the genetic characteristics. There's certainly more over which we did not have a choice.

Other countries have aspects of life that are better. Developed countries all have better universal health care in spite of the well-publicized issues that any major endeavor that includes everyone might have. Other countries have shorter work weeks and longer vacations. I've always envied the Europeans who came here in summer on their extended vacations.

Other countries have better public transportation.

However, we are taxed very little compared to other countries; our food is much less expensive and our purchased goods are less expensive. We have a huge country with many choices of lifestyles from the west to the south to the midwest to the east. It's amazing what our nation offers for places to live.

All countries have issues with unemployment (with some exceptions). Mose developed countries have longer term assistance for the unemployed.

We really have a hands on government at all levels and don't support a royal family. We abdicated our political responsibility by such a small percentage of the population voting and through the lemming qualities that go along with abdicating our right to vote.

We have the country we have allowed by years of sitting back and letting our representatives represent themselves. As Abe says, it's time to change things. Unfortunately, so many of the worst are in charge that they are even passing laws to make it more difficult to vote!!!

The absolute control of the news media is also frightening.

I'm one of those weirdos, I'm afraid, who believes in the 100th Monkey Phenomenon. When enough individuals start to see and think in a new way, a critical mass is reached at some point, and pretty soon, just about everybody is seeing the light and change happens quickly. We saw something like it with the Civil Rights movement during the 50's and 60's, and today, a simple mention of the word, "racism," and everybody starts going haywire.

The best way to bring about change is to be that change. We can only start with ourselves and appeal to the people around us. Before long, the ripple effect sets in.

Ann

7/11/2011


I guess it's time for me to sit down and really think this out !
I would never leave my own country, just frustration coming
out ! I've always been rubbed the wrong way when I see
politicians don't listen to the people and have the attitude
they know better, as far as I'm concerned they don't know
any better than the public ! When they get in it becomes a
career, that's all they worry about !


Cheers....Joe

I think that sometimes, what begins as a dream, a means of helping others, turns into a need for self-perpetuation. "How can I help if I am not in a position of power?"

Other times, an individual goes into the same role, asking from the outset, "What's in it for me?"

But the power today isn't really in the office. It's in the hands of those with the purchasing power to buy the media time and attention, and therefore, the votes, that the candidate needs to get into the position. And once there, she has to stay there, so the power is given over to those who will support the person holding the job.

It is this very awareness, though, that can help to change the situation. It is about exposing the controllers and their true motives. Once enough people are conscious of what is really going on, the people will be able to take back control, and it won't require violence (the lowest form of power) or wealth (a higher form of power than violence), but information (the highest form of power available to us in this age).

Ann

We all heard the expression, "The grass looks greener on the other side of the fence." Sometimes it is greener, but not always.
Things do change. In the past, most things in America could be purchased for less. That has changed. In my past two visits to the States, I found that prices were equal to or greater than what it cost me for the same items where I live. I don't know why.

Local friends just returned from a holiday in Italy. They have not stopped talking about the changes since their last visit. They went out to eat, and the prices seemed reasonable until they got their bill. They were charged for the utensils and the plates they used. I saw their bill this morning and the bill showed the extra charges for the utensils and plate. When one goes to a Fest, they used real utensils and plates, there is an extra charge, a deposit, and when you return them, you get your deposit back. The charges in Italy were not a deposit, but an add-on charge. It was not just one restuarant, but at every restuarant they visited.
In Germany, the end price is shown on all menus, that includes the tax and the service (tip) charges. At any store, the price tag includes the tax. You know in advance the end price of your purchase. In America, tax is added on, and the tip is at the discretion of the customer, but is an extra cost.

I don't know the rationale of what is happening in Italy. Perhaps it is a way to make that extra Euro and help defray the cost of their help. I think if they charged me for the utensils, I would take them with me when I left, or take my own if I ever visited that restuarant again. Wonder what they would do if one refused to use their utensils and ate with the fingers.

The world is changing. What was standard in the past, is past. I don't like what is happening. The only power I have is the power of choice. That includes the stores/restuarants I frequent and those who I will support with my vote.

We can choose to stay where we are and fight inequity/injustice, or move on. If moving on, it can't be assumed that things will be better, just different.

I have been alive long enough to know that our Uk Priminister does not actually run the country he is just the figurehead, a decoy, someone to take the flak. The real power lay with those who have all the gold the creditors the country owes money to. Obahma is a decoy the target for all the current negativity.
As much as we'd all wish he could do something wonderful he really can't because he only has token power. Our Queen is said to be the head of state the highest authority but alas she also has only token power these day's. I know this sounds all very conspiracy orientated but I believe it to be true.

The people have a voice yes, but their creditors have a louder one.

alj wrote:

I'm one of those weirdos, I'm afraid, who believes in the 100th Monkey Phenomenon. When enough individuals start to see and think in a new way, a critical mass is reached at some point, and pretty soon, just about everybody is seeing the light and change happens quickly. We saw something like it with the Civil Rights movement during the 50's and 60's, and today, a simple mention of the word, "racism," and everybody starts going haywire.

The best way to bring about change is to be that change. We can only start with ourselves and appeal to the people around us. Before long, the ripple effect sets in.

Ann

That's the spirit. Great post!

dmondeo wrote:

I have been alive long enough to know that our Uk Priminister does not actually run the country he is just the figurehead, a decoy, someone to take the flak. The real power lay with those who have all the gold the creditors the country owes money to. Obahma is a decoy the target for all the current negativity.
As much as we'd all wish he could do something wonderful he really can't because he only has token power. Our Queen is said to be the head of state the highest authority but alas she also has only token power these day's. I know this sounds all very conspiracy orientated but I believe it to be true.

The people have a voice yes, but their creditors have a louder one.

Good point!

Ann and Daivd. Makes good sense what you say. Money is power. Often the powerful want a figurehead that they can control and offer their support.
Yesterday my wife and I discussed this issue. She remarked that a good dictatorship is preferable to a powerless figurehead. Dictators get things done.
There have been good dictatorships/monarchies that worked well and they took care of their people. Democracy is supposed to be better. Sometimes I wonder about that. We want to press democracy on people who don't understand what it is, and it can't be done overnight. It is a learning process. Getting a bunch of people together to decide on matters is often so chaotic that nothing is accomplished. Persuasion and comprimise appears to be our democratic method in government. Even with that there is chaos as we are now seeing with the debt issue. Doing the right thing is not the issue. Doing the thing that provides a base of power seems to be the objective - party politics.

Democracy must have compromise.

Democracy needs an informed electorate.

A benevolent dictatorship seems appealing when things gridlock, but I don't want one here.
Power is too corrupting.
A dictator does what he/she sees fit--at least with a democracy the majority wins.

There is stuff on this page that suggests a possible reason why we need to look to ourselves as contributing factors:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/11/debt.talks/index.html?iref=NS1

Please look to the right-hand column showing which articles are the most popular.

Ann

7/11/2011


As I read once, Americans are the blame because we
keep electing the same idiots in Congress over and over,
no wonder so many have been in Congress for 20, 30, 40
even 50 years...Time for severe term limits, Senators one
term, Congress one term, President one term..........


Cheers..Joe

What a great discussion that has covered a lot of ground with thought. It has given me food for my thinking processes. Wouldn't it be grand if each of us became active in local politics and actually found a candidate with half a chance for success who might be interested in working for our benefit.

joefrank wrote:

7/11/2011


As I read once, Americans are the blame because we
keep electing the same idiots in Congress over and over,
no wonder so many have been in Congress for 20, 30, 40
even 50 years...Time for severe term limits, Senators one
term, Congress one term, President one term..........


Cheers..Joe

Joe, I hear you, but please look again at the right hand column of my last link.

None of these suggestions will work until we change our interests. CNN is not Fox - not quite yet, anyway.

When we wake up and ask the right questions, choose to read the truly pertinent and empowering articles, we will begin to get workable solutions. As long as we ask for the irrelevant and sensational over the real and sometimes dull necessities, we will continue with our present options.

Ann

7/11/2011


Ann,

I found them , thanks..

Cheers..Joe

The more negativity they give to Obama, the more support I give him.

How to deal with this crisis?

I suggest turning off the TV, unplug the PC, get a good book, a bottle of wine and a box of chocolates. Find a shady spot with a good view where it is quiet. To get started, drink a full glass of wine. Second, read one of Betty's stories to get in the mood of love for all creation. After each story, make a toast to Betty. If you finish the bottle of wine before you finish the stories, mark the page and get a second bottle of wine, but not before you chomped on some chocolate. You will feel relaxed, yet energized. The problems of the world will become less important. Being one with nature and part of a wonderful universe will make you feel alive. Your thoughts will become positive, you will want to help those less fortunate, you will want to express love.
Take another glass of wine, but not before eating more chocolate. Close your eyes and enjoy the magic of the world that you are helping to create by just being who you are.

That's my prescription.

What Abe said.

Ann

7/11/2011


Abe..

I'll drink to that .........



Cheers..Joe..