who or what validates your work?

It is a shame a guest cannot post a link. I don't know what purpose that serves?? I will not, however, post her story on this board. You guys probably would not want to read it anyway.

I repeat. I allowed myself to be negatively impacted by several people at AW who post on a specific thread that takes the joy away from new authors. I mentioned that fact as part of this thread about validation. Validation by peers is an important factor in life.

I am sorry again that I brought up the "AW" word because it calls up emotional responses that lump people as "us" and "them" who are not even part of the discussion.

Please, I brought up AW and ask again that it be dropped from this thread before I respond to the guest in kind. Thanks.

Dk, I am sorry if your experience with AW was less than satisfactory, truly I mean that. It happens. There were some at other boards that treated me and my friends in kind. It isn't right when those things happen. I understand. But I will say that said thread may take joy away from new authors, but also high retail prices, lack of true support, and the once a week e-mails for authors to buy their own books also take the joy away from those same new authors. The thread would not exist if not for those things and more. Of course, I leave that to opinion, which may differ from author to author.

Again, there are two sides to every story. Both sides must always be factored in to make the reality complete. And then let people decide for themselves without the animosity, judgements, and namecalling...on BOTH sides.

I won't say anything else about it per your wishes, as long as I am not attacked for voicing my honest opinion.

Mel wrote:

Quote :

Again, there are two sides to every story. Both sides must always be factored in to make the reality complete. And then let people decide for themselves without the animosity, judgements, and namecalling...on BOTH sides.

Mel, are you honestly trying to tell us that BOTH sides of this issue can be discussed at AW?

Ann

No, Ann and DK and Shelagh and the rest, Mel is doing all that she can to keep this argument alive, and that's about all she's doing here. She showed her true colors quite some time ago on the other board, when she turned her back on those she had called her friends, and from what she has posted here it is clear that she hasn't changed.

She has nothing new to say, and there's no reason whatsoever for us to go back through all of the same things again.

AW can keep their anti PA boards, as well as their one sided self righteous view of the publishing world, we, or at least I, don't need it. They offer nothing, and the sooner we stop validating them, the better.

Everyone, this is why I started this thread. I truly feel that a business where the traditional route to publishing requires your work to be accepted by someone else, tests your concept of validation. Another factor is that the current financial times is making it even tougher to get that acceptance letter from an agent or publisher.

When you add into the mix, random shots of negativity that blast in from the side due to who your publisher is, how you published or any number of things that some deem inferior, self-validation becomes key. Just remember all of the authors and artists whose work grew into greatness long after they departed this earth. Often people that hold a belief that only one way of doing something is the right way can never see past that point of view, regardless of the quality of the work. Given the previous point, To Kill A Mockingbird, Harry Potter and The Color Purple would have all been garbage if they were Publish America, self-published or POD.

People that rachet down the hopes of others by pointing out they are hopelessly on the wrong path, need to:

1. Check to see how their own success has panned out using their methods

2. Figure out if anyone else has succeeded using the route that they a advising others against

3. Determine why it irritates them so much that someone else is going a different way than they selected to get published

4. See if the world of publishing has changed enough to cause authors to have legitimate reasons to pursue paths other than the traditional way

5. The final reason is they need to figure out why they feel the need to get that deep into someon else's business

Finally, I find that I seem to see the same people engaging in active engagements over the same issues on multiple message boards. This is a puzzlement. What is the purpose? For me, a PA author, a self-published author, a publishing service provider author and a traditionally published author; my validation is from within. I know when I am writing quality and I know when I am writing garbage.

Find a validation anchor that is not moved by outside influence.

Great summation, DT. You mentioned To Kill A Mockingbird... do you find
it intriguing that even after winnng the Pulitzer prize for it in
1961, Harper Lee had no further (major) contributions to the literary
arts? She had what we would consider a free ride at that point!

I wonder what she considered "validation"?

Thanks DT for stepping in with some objective thoughts. I agree that an internal mechanism for validation is important, and I also feel that validation by experts, peers, and readers fit in the mix somewhere as part of the whole but not a singular source.

You know Phil, I really like what Harper Lee did. Think about it, her one book is required reading in most schools and she and it are a legend.

To draw a modern comparison, there was a book by Sistah Soulja, of Bill Clinton fame, the Sistah Soulja moment. She wrote a book ten years ago titled, The Coldest Winter Ever, it became the must read book of Urban fiction. Ten years later, a couple of months ago, she did another book titled Midnight, one of the characters from her first book, and the reviews have been poor to mixed at best. It sold well and was on the NYT bestsellers list, but did that book diminish the previous book. I think it could have been one of those books that sold for decades wrapped in the mistique of "Why didn't she write another book?"

You know what’s curious to me about that place. Most of the “writers”
there have nothing to lose, since they’ll never be published, ever. So AW is
their outlet –as Don noted, their thousands of posts are all they’ll ever have
to their names. A small percentage there managed to get tiny-obscure-press published
or e-published (and they think that means something, bless their hearts






Now. About the very few there who actually have publishing
credentials, and post under their own
names. Their total oblivion of how simultaneously vicious and easy to find
their posts are intrigues me. Do they not realize how alienating their posts
can be to fans of their work, fans who perhaps aspire to writing themselves?
(rhetorical question). All it would take is a few well-placed posts on fan
sites around the net, and some serious damage could be done to their numbers.





Maybe they don’t care. Because they’re, you know, Published
Authors and insulated from anything like that. Like Dave K.

I recognize some of these folks from other places and I tangled with them there. One board is almost dead due to the fighting and they told me that my way of doing things was the road to ruin. I certainly would not get published, their definition, going self-published/POD and with PA on the resume. Guess what, they were wrong?

Nay saying is easy to do, because it is hard to disprove a negative in this case. Due to how hard it is to get a publishing deal, they get to say 'I told you so' often. That doesn't mean they are right, it just means that it is hard to get a publishing deal.

How come you do not allow all types of discussion without getting testy? How come you judge everyone's opinions and motives for coming here? You were the ones who brought up a certain subject, and are now saying- please stop. The kitchen gets too hot, shut that stove down, and everyone is not welcome to stay, even if they can take the heat. And you were also the first ones who began the insults with the basher business. But when someone puts you in your place, they are considered troublesome.
I don't get it.

I don't care to get it. But I will tell you this, with that one-sided mentality you will never have many numbers in your midst. But maybe that's the way you like it. Perhaps it isn't what you say, but how you say it.

We are going to a funeral for hubby's uncle who passed away suddenly from a heart attack. All this crap is small beans compared to a loved one lost. I just hate to see you'all (some) run over people who might wish to post with you. I no longer do. As long as they hold your same opinions, they are welcome and everything is roses. Otherwise...

Hi Marie, to clarify,

My "statistics" are observations of who on that one board (the AW PAMB board, not the whole AW site) are writers with credentials that that board considers valid.

I was not "advising" anyone to do anything. I commented on how the posters on the AW PAMB board themselves take such pride in how noting how easy to find their posts are, but seem to think they're easy to find only by potential PA authors. They don't seem to realize that they're easy to find by anyone. Patrons of online books clubs and genre fan sites read all kinds of boards. So do others.

As for P/E being useful, some obviously find it so. I never did. I'm not sure why I need to read one guy's opinion of whom he likes and doesn't to figure out what house or agent to submit to. The library has great hard copy books like Writer's Market and Literary Marketplace that are more objective, comprehensive, and have served me well.

I posted briefly on the AW PAMB board a long time ago and was driven off by the negativity and hostility of the posters, including Dave K's. They repeat, ad nauseum, how it's a great, tolerant place where no one is "censored." But that's only as long as you goose-step with them. And the stronger personalities (ones who appear to be there largely for ego-strokes) give some really bad advice to the weaker ones. JMO.

What validates my work?

One validation is when someone reads my books based on family and then talks to me about their own family. (It made it easy for me to do presentations as after 15 minutes those attending would go to questions and discuss families and genealogy and all that meant.)

Another is when someone tells me they learned something from what I wrote, something like the Civil War being fought in Missouri, or about inventions or patents or telephones.

And a third, is when they tell me when I didn't get it quite right. Coming from people who know me, have read my books, and care about my continuing publication these comments are valuable.

In the avatar here I have the wrong bricks. The people in my book are brick masons with pressed bricks. I did study about that process. I searched our town for an old building with bricks for this picture. One day a cousin called after reading the book and said the bricks in the picture were not pressed bricks.

Those are challenges, that I need to work on getting the research right. They are also validations that someone took the time to let me know that information.

Carol

If I understand it correctly, Dave K. got sued and I think he lost the case. I don't know if that is right or not, but if so then my opinion is that it was long overdue.

Words fascinate me. If anyone pinpoints a word as having only one meaning, I have to research it. It's an affliction for which there is no cure. Okay, tody's word is "basher" in the context of writing. I bet you didn't know that men tend to be bashers and women swoopers when it comes to writing. Read this if you don't know the difference between the two:

http://secondlanguage.blogspot.com/2008/12/swoopers-and-bashers.html

Shelagh,

That would be a great thread, "Are you a basher or a swooper?"

Perhaps that could transform our use of the word forever and always. Well, I dream sometimes.

What I previously felt about the bashers (before reading this article) was that I was some sort of victim of my publisher. I don't like that feeling, and would rather be a survivor.

I liked the concept in the article and think I'm a swooper, but am not sure.

Carol

Marie, the AW stuff is right for this thread because it states that some feel that the name of the publisher that is on their book validate's their work. That is valid if that is how they feel. It goes off course when they project that onto other authors and try to invalidate their work based upon the publisher's name on their books.

Shelagh, I don't see how a woman being a sweeper can validate their work, unless it is their house work. I do know that if a man had posted that women tended to be sweepers, we'd have been bashed for it.

And Marie sweeps down for the kill.

Didn't mean to get off topic, I just wanted to get in a post about sweepers and bashers while I had the elephant of surprise on my side.

"I am slow to feel validated. While Arirang: The Bamboo Connection had many rave reviews, the PA author bashing at Absolute Write had its impact on the value I held for my work and the statements from those who liked it.

Rejection letters also take their toll in spite of the acquisition letters that say the contract is in the mail."

Let's not lose sight of my original post above in response to what makes ME feel validated or not, my response to this thread, not a desire to start a firestorm of thread hijacking.

Instead of isolating the one piece of the post that seems to create a firestorm, why not continue responding to the thread? It is a very thought-provoking opportunity to express personal responses to this career. My feelings about validation are as valid as anyone elses. They belong to me. They are a threat to no one else, and my own challenge to overcome.

My second post indicated that I recognize that my response to the AW line by line tearing apart of my innocent posting to other boards was a glass half-empty response. Instead, my glass is half full with validations that include publication success and contracts for future works. That is where my attention will rest. Not on the underneath side with the bottom feeders.

Marie Pacha wrote:

DT

If someone says being published by PA validates them and their work, then I respect their opinion.

I personally believe that the individual (any individual) and what they have written validates them; regardless of their publisher.

And quite honestly, I'm tired of hearing about AW here. If you disagree with what they say, then why bother to give them credibility by commenting on their posts?

Marie, I treat these things like seeing a roach, there are a hundred that you don't see. Confronting the issue keeps you from being stampeded. I tried to be a peace maker on another board and the hoards took over the thing and destroyed it.

We will agree to disagree on this one. Now I don't ignore nonsense.

Did Dave K win or lose his lawsuit?
E. Don asked, I am curious also.

Thanks,

Alice