Tired of Lies

I believe in President Obama. I fully believe that the republicans are willing to put the country in the toilet to prove their power to make the president look bad.

I think I am ready to reconsider a move to Panama.

7/26/2011

DK..

Take me with you !!! What is the Panamanian
money worth versus the dollars ? Is it cheap to
live there ?

Cheers..Joe

I doubt that any currency will be much better than another in the very near future. Every place is going to be in the sme boat.

We will just have to find ways to cooperate and help each other through it all, wherever we are.

Ann

7/26/2011


Ann..

I remember a few years ago I told friends when we become
seniors, one day we would all have to live together to survive, I
guess it's coming true !

Cheers..Joe

This country is controlled by money and power as are most of the undeveloped but reasonably prosperous two-class societies of the world.

The advantage of choosing Panama is that an understanding of how the government works is not necessary or expected by me. In this country, I expect to have a voice in my future when no choice is really present. Living in a foreign country provides a bubble of ignorance.

Panama does revere its elderly. It has universal health care at a reasonable level for everyone and a choice to enhance it through private insurance. The medical care is excellent and affordable even without the universal health care insurance.

All expenses in Panama are cut by 40 to 50 percent for the elderly. The original costs are slightly less than the U.S. However, the consistent discount is a major help. I can't remember a service or entertainment or purchase that was not affected by the discount.

The country has a hot but consistent climate with rain the only issue of natural disaster proportions. No fears of hurricanes or other frightening weather.

Panama has a two-class society; but I wouldn't expect it to be any different. In this country, I believed that everyone had a voice.

I am wrong. There is only one voice in this country: the voice of money, big money. It's shameless and powerful and wins. I spent a lifetime working to help people with major challenges find opportunity in their future. I feel let down by my country and my leaders.

7/26/2011


DK..


BRAVO!......... .....


Cheers..Joe..

Dk,
I'm often asked why I live where I do. I hesitate to respond because they wouldn't like the answer.
I think you have touched on some of the reasons.
My wife and I are alive today because of a good and affordable healthcare program. The affordable part is also important since we still have a home in which to live that wasn't taken to pay medical bills.

Seniors are respected and taken care of.

My wife finished her radiation therapy last week. The doctor said that he feels 99% sure they got everything. With scheduled checkups, if they do detect something, they can respond quickly.

She starts a 3 week rehab next tuesday in the Black Forest paid for by the health insurance.

You made a good choice, Abe. I remember Germany as a beautiful country. I lived there a total of four years on two separate occasions and in two different locals entirely: Butzbach and Wiesbaden.

In this country, the elite have the same opportunities for health care and remaining in their homes that has made your life comfortable in Germany. The working class will more and more live in fear. It's easy for a person with all their monetary needs met in excess to take from those with less opportunity. That's why we have gated communities - so those with more don't have to associate with those without. Unfortunately, those with are making the rules in the United States with their gates shut.

And we have allowed those who burried this country in wars and debt following the Clinton administration to set the rules that will keep the poorest facing a worse future. President Obama inherited an impossible job; he has risen to the effort through several great legislative packages and saving the automotive industry.

Abe, I an hesitant to respond to your post because I do not want you to
think that I am not sympathetic - to your life in Germany, or to DK's
considered life in Panama.

Lynn and Cris talk of moving to France. Chris has close relatives
there, in the southern part of the country, and they visit there at least
every other year. A trip for next summer is already planned.

Personally, I think their vision of life in France is quite close to the
one presented in the film, A Good Year. I have already posted a video
of the film's trailer some time back, so forgive me for doing it again.



The trailer explains the proposition so well, in terms of today's situation, that you don't actually need to see the film, but I recommend that people do.

(There is an irony in all this. Lynn has always had an active dislike for the actor, Russell Crowe, and his films, at least since Gladiator. I think it has to do with her having an MFA in theater and working as an administrator in a public middle school. An individual who has had so much success in her medium, who was a high school dropout with no university creds, bugs her, whether she will admit it or not. Her husband is now a part of the corporate world, too, but at least he is still closely involved at the level of providing theatrical entertainment. sorry, I'm digressing.)

Sometimes - especially like right now, when it is 103 degrees outside, and my A/C is being pushed to its limit, I think of moving to NJ, where my son and granddaughter live. It's even a progressive community, also unlike here.

The United States can, and should, take lessons from the more progressive places. Perhaps there was a time when this country represented an ideal, but that is no longer true. I am not promoting life in america over life in other places.

But, at the same time, I don't think the answer lies in moving somewhere else, although having the option to do so is a powerful tool. I do believe that the people who are living in the middle of the situation, and who plan to stay and cope, need to be the ones who decide on what the solution might be.

I. too, am tired of the lies and the agendas and the assumption that the ignorant masses will believe them. I don't think that is the reality. I think that people here are waking up. I don't know what is going to happen over the next couple of weeks, but I'm not ready to desert the ship just yet.

Ann

I like my house, it is home. My mother -in-law would be devastated if we moved.

We will stay and go down with the US ship.

When the US implodes, the rest of the world will go too.


We are a world economy.

Ann, I hear what you're saying. I could take the attitude that I don't care what happens in America since it doesn't affect me, but it does. It is still my home. My brothers, sister, daughter and grandchildren live there. I care about them and what they are faced with. Having experinced a different society, a system that works, makes me want to help make it better in my home country. Saying nothing is the same as doing nothing. Moving away is not always the answer. On the other hand, moving away may be the best option for survival. Circumstances vary. What may work for one may not work for another. We make choices.
I can choose to keep my mouth shut and not participate in threads that don't directly concern me, or I can choose to get involved.

I've learned that people who criticize, are people who care. They want to make things better. Those that do nothing or say nothing, are often those who don't really give a shit.

We have shown that we care. We have taken whatever steps seem right for us as individuals to take. This thing is in play. If we have written our letters, posted our blogs and messages and expressed our feelings and opinions, we have done what we can do for the moment. It is time to let it unroll. These individuals have been elected. We can't impeach them - certainly not before next Tuesday.

What we can do is let go of our fear and frustration at our inability to control what is happening "out there" and focus on what is within.

We are not God. Maybe, in the long run, this is a good thing - a necessary step in the direction of re-centering and getting things back in balance.

I can't know for sure if God is in control. What I do know is that I am not - not of this situation at this point. Accepting that I am not in control is not the same as not giving a shit.

I have taken the steps that I can take. "The rest is not my business."

Quote :

V.
So here I am, in the middle way, having had twenty years—
Twenty years largely wasted, the years of l'entre deux guerres
Trying to use words, and every attempt
Is a wholly new start, and a different kind of failure
Because one has only learnt to get the better of words
For the thing one no longer has to say, or the way in which
One is no longer disposed to say it. And so each venture
Is a new beginning, a raid on the inarticulate
With shabby equipment always deteriorating
In the general mess of imprecision of feeling,
Undisciplined squads of emotion. And what there is to conquer
By strength and submission, has already been discovered
Once or twice, or several times, by men whom one cannot hope
To emulate—but there is no competition—
There is only the fight to recover what has been lost
And found and lost again and again: and now, under conditions
That seem unpropitious. But perhaps neither gain nor loss.
For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business.
T. S. Eliot; "East Coker"; Four Quartets

Ann

I did a bit of googling on retiring in Panama. The only ones praising it are companies who get commissions from developers and agents wanting to sell property. Others say the cost of living there isn't as cheap as these companies would have you believe, and crime is quite high.

As for Panama's generous retirement benefits, it appears you have to prove an income of at least $500/month and other assets before you're allowed to apply to retire there. What, exactly, are the other retirement benefits, since money clearly isn't one of them?

Why does Panama want a bunch of old people?

Panama recognizes the benefits of immigration by people willing to spend money. I don't mean to imply that it is paradise. Paradise is where you make it. Of course they don't want people with no means to retire in their country! The requirement of $500/mo. seems pretty small, doesn't it?

I don't remember all the benefits. However, they include breaks on taxes, breaks on automobile imports, and 40 to 50 per cent discount on almost all purchases for the necessities of life. Housing is discounted. Public transportation including bus, rail and air are discounted. Restaurants are discounted. Theaters are discounted. These are not isolated discounts but nationwide at all related facilities. Healthcare is excellent and universal. What's even better is the respect and reverence for older adults and the general graciousness of the Panamanian people. The country is beautiful, oceans on both sides with exquisite mountains and jungles. The large cities are modern and restaurants provide great meals at reasonable cost. The variety of food in the groceries is amazing. Pharmacies are affordable.

The government is as corrupt and political as our own. However, Panama depends on international traffic through the Panama Canal and a stable government contributes to the Panama Canal benefits. Also, living in a foreign country does provide a measure of ignorance regarding their government unlike the frustration of living under a government one understands

It doesn't. Offering discounts to seniors doesn't make a retirement affordable. Retirees still need to bring their own money. And the only sites I see praising Panama's healthcare are places like panamainfo and real estate sellers. Expat message boards have different opinions.

When I was in Panama City three years ago, I made a careful study of how far and how long my income would last. All indicators were that my little retirement income would just about be doubled by the major discounts experienced in Panama. In fact, my lifestyle would be considerable improved to the point that I would be able to have some home help. No, I don't remember the figures exactly. I do know the cost savings were significant.

The benefits to retirees are a matter of law. The healthcare is also a matter of law. Whether they meet the needs of people who blog on forums is an individual matter. Those legally delineated benefits met my needs.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/panama/T12S29LMBRUEJ5I96

Quote :

Of course they don't want people with no means to retire in their
country! The requirement of $500/mo. seems pretty small, doesn't it

So why are you so adamant that we should be so accepting of penniless illegal immigrants here just because they're "looking for a better life?" Aren't penniless retirees to Panama seeking the same?

Because our industrial farming complex invited illegal aliens into this country as underpaid workers to pick our food supply. They were invited with lies and lived with abuse and horrid conditions. They were not invited to bring their money - if they had any, it paid their transport in an airless truck; they were invited to bring their youth, their healthy bodies, their families of little hands to pick from sunup to sundown seven days a week.

In Panama, they don't need workers; they need capital. They invite people to bring their money.

Don't worry; Mexico's industrial economy is growing at a rate nearly twice ours; their poeple won't be tempted by any amount of our promise of the American dream. However, our citizens may wish to pursue employment in Mexico. Hopefully their industrial complex is kinder to U.S. citizens than ours was to Mexicans.