Difficulty of selling books by unknown authors

Geeesh! I just logged on and this thread is very confusing. People making jokes, some taking offense, others looking for a fight.
As for Brenda, I think she speaks clearly in what she has to say. As for free speech, does that come with a condition for agreement?

No conditions, Abe. This is one of those threads that meanders around.

I thought Deb was right on. Welcome Deb. I think what you have found is what many of us have found.

I never meant to start a fight. I just didn't think selling books with payment would make up for no one liking what was written. My opinion.

You have no idea how many times this gets discussed in the mental health business. Yes, we have to charge people to keep the lights on and to pay the employees. I was not saying Brenda and LC didn't have pride in their work. I just thought their joke was in poor taste when we are trying to promote books by all authors.

You know serious me sometimes doesn't get these jokes. The humor I use around the house, which is there actually, would get me in much more trouble than Brenda and LC.

I'm always going to have more pride than paychecks for writing. More enjoyment, more satisfaction. For mental health business, after I worked for about $1.50 an hour for a few years, I got much more money than I ever expected for selling the business and the property. I just never know about these things. I just do what I love and sometimes the money follows and sometimes not. But first I love it. And I would work at whatever I had to. Raising six kids was the most work I've ever known, although I've waited on tables and whatever else I needed to do for money.

I think Brenda has pride in what she does also, and was just calling her on agreeing with something I really didn't think she agreed with in the first place, and no I didn't understand it was a joke, but more a slam at those of us who will have more pride than paychecks, like me. Sorry about that.

Now that I have added a whole lot of confusion to the mix, I am going to Relay for Life to walk in the rain.

So carry on. And Deb, please don't go away. I like what you said. We are all working under those discouraging circumstances for many. We need to keep encouraging each other.

Love ya all, Carol

Dick wrote:

Quote :

I am pondering a serious question: why do people get upset about a joke? As yet I have not come up with an answer.

Sometimes it has to do with the spirit in which the joke is told. That was a lesson I learned as a young girl, during my first reading of a book I've mentioned here more than once, The Virginian, by Owen Wister, and that once famous passage on a similar topic:

Quote :

"I suppose you have me beat," said Steve, grinning at him affectionately. "You're such a son-of-a-- when you get down to work. I had expected that the man would be struck down. He had used to the Virginian a term of heaviest insult, I thought. I had marvelled to hear it come so unheralded from Steve's friendly lips. And now I marvelled still more. Evidently he had meant no harm by it, and evidently no offence had been taken. Used thus, this language was plainly complimentary. I had stepped into a world new to me indeed, and novelties were occurring with scarce any time to get breath between them.

**********************************************************

There had been silence over in the corner; but now the man Trampas spoke again. "AND ten," said he, sliding out some chips from before him. Very strange it was to hear him, how he contrived to make those words a personal taunt. The Virginian was looking at his cards. He might have been deaf. "AND twenty," said the next player, easily. The next threw his cards down. It was now the Virginian's turn to bet, or leave the game, and he did not speak at once. Therefore Trampas spoke. "Your bet, you son-of-a--." The Virginian's pistol came out, and his hand lay on the table, holding it unaimed. And with a voice as gentle as ever, the voice that sounded almost like a caress, but drawling a very little more than usual, so that there was almost a space between each word, he issued his orders to the man Trampas: "When you call me that, SMILE." And he looked at Trampas across the table.

************************************************************

Something had been added to my knowledge also. Once again I had heard applied to the Virginian that epithet which Steve so freely used. The same words, identical to the letter. But this time they had produced a pistol. "When you call me that, SMILE!" So I perceived a new example of the old truth, that the letter means nothing until the spirit gives it life.

Some words have a different sound when they come from someone who is being friendly, and means no harm. While it is harder to distinguish tone in written words, the "spirit" can still make a difference in whether one takes a "joke" or doesn't.

Ann

Carol, oh my goodness. Please don't feel that way. If you were encouraged to resubmit and you feel you're ready to have them look at your work again, by all means, do so - right this minute! Don't even wait to pass 'Go.'

If you're accepted, I'll rejoice with you. If not, I'll send tissues.

I appreciate the thought, but never, ever, let something like that stop you from pursuing your goals.

Go get’em!

Thanks Brenda.

I hope we can end this thread.

I think we scared Deb away. I hope she returns.

Carol

The thread can turn direction back to difficulty of selling books by unknown authors.

Ghost Orchid was turned down many times before it was accepted because of its POV.

I sparked an interest by a publisher, but they did not like the POV. I wrote the entire novel over again to change the POV.

Then, it was not long enough. I wrote major sections again to create a sensible thread that would add substance.

I wrote the entire novel over again and submitted it to the publisher that had expressed a glimmer of interest.

The third time was the charm, but I still had lots of work to do to polish it with the help of an editor.

Though it's ready for publication, I could change even more yet tonight. I don't think for me a work is ever done.

I do think it's worth moving forward if you have a good story to tell. The rest is just writing.

Rejection and repeat seem to be a big part of the writing landscape. It feels like applying for jobs.

Dick Stodghill wrote:

It's all my fault, Brenda. The next time sweet little Discouraged in Ohio reads one of your quarter books I'll make sure she uses at least 15 tissues. I may even buy her a new box of Puffs.

That's downright decent of you, Dick. I'm touched. Will I need tissues when I read yours?

Don,

In the past, you have complained about arguments on the forum but this is an excellent example of how issues that lie dormant can surface and be resolved amicably. We say more to defend our position than we do without provocation. At last, we found out what was really bothering Carol. So much better to know than to allow a misconception to stop Carol pursuing her dream.

I offered to publish Carol's book but she wants the acceptance of the group (writers). Something I would not need but it is important to Carol. Signing a contract with a small publisher is as important to Carol as signing with a NY publisher is for Brenda. Carol wants the recognition that her writing is good enough; being paid royalties is part of the process of being a published author but the amount is of very little importance to Carol. Conversely, Brenda sees the size of the cheques as an important part of being recognised as a writer -- as well as helping to pay the bills! Two writers with parallel goals.

I wish you both success. I think that you are terrific people without having to achieve any more than you already have. That said, I do accept that you will both continue to follow your dreams. We are all routing for you!

This has been a very unusual thread--I have deleted my posts here.

Why?

Only certain people have been accorded free speech on this thread.

I am not criticizing Shelagh's moderating.

When some of you thunder in with heavy equipment and begin spouting your opinions, which by the way, is your right--it would help if you first took the time to read the entire thread, Carol was not accorded any free speech here and her point was valid.

In my opinion she should be apologized to.

If my friends are wrong, I don't support them, I stay out of it, or even go against them. It would be helpful to all if we didn't align ourselves so closely with our friends that we blindly follow them over a cliff.

All of us are right sometimes and wrong sometimes.

It would be helpful if we took each case individually.

That's my opinion--no one needs to like or agree with it.

By the way, there is no humor, intended or otherwise, in this post, I found LITTLE in the thread either.

If we purport to be writers, why not first take reading and master the comprehension portion?

PLEASE CONFUSE YOURSELF WITH THE FACTS! THANKS!!!!!

What are we trying to accomplish with our writing?

If money is the goal--there are easier ways.
It would have been very nice if my book had become a NYT best seller.

I don't care about that--Lane, a writer, read and reviewed my book. When he confided his desperate situation, it was to me, not a NYT best selling author.

That was my pay.

That paycheck will never run out.

Thank you Shelagh. That is exactly where I'm at.

Thank you Alice. I loved, "that paycheck will never run out."

You are both right on.

Carol

This thread has been very interesting, kind of a circular firing squad. Acceptance has its place. Quality has its place. Money has its place.

I just write what I want and promote it after it is published. I do the best job I can when writing the piece. If it strikes a note with the public, that's good. If a publisher takes notice and thinks they have an audience for the work, that's good. I don't think a lot of those that once they get a loyal audience and decide to exploit it with less than their best efforts because they know they will be given the benefit of the doubt.

What else are we supposed to do other than our best. I realize that the definition of best is different for everyone and best does not mean perfect. I think best means when other changes will not make something better, just different.

Ann

I agree.

DT, where were you when we needed someone to explain all this.

DT,

I always agree with you. You have uncommonly good common sense. If I were on trial, I would want you on my jury.

"The Road" is a dismal book slopped out by a Pulitzer Prize winning author.
A huge disappointment in everyway.
I am sure the author made a mint on it.

I am reading a wonderful book by Geraldine Brooks. It is March, and a novel about the father of the Little Women who went to the Civil War as a chaplain. Geraldine a most fantastic writer. I just love to read her words and sometimes forget I've got to follow a story here. For instance, this sentence is magical and it doesn't just portray a scene.

"Instead he took his flute, and as the lowering sun turned the water scarlet, he played sweet airs, till the perch, rose all around us, beating the skin of the pond so that we stood in a world of shimmer."

I'm not even sure she put the commas in the right places, but they work.

We each have our own style, our own goals, our own dreams and wishes.

I love Shelagh's saying "routing." Perhaps that is what we need, to each find our route to a place where we feel we have written with quality and are accepted for what we write.

Love, Carol

dtpollard wrote:

I don't think a lot of those that once they get a loyal audience and decide to exploit it with less than their best efforts because they know they will be given the benefit of the doubt.

I feel this way about the authors of "The Millionaire Next Door." That book was brilliant and I got a lot out of it. I bought their sequel, "The Millionaire Mind" assuming it would be the same. What a piece of garbage. They just repeated the same stuff from the first book, in a more boring way, and threw in lots of who-cares charts. To me, it was nothing but a way to milk more money out of their same idea.

Otherwise, as you said, all we can do is our best. Everyone isn't going to like our efforts. Can't please everyone.

I just now finished reading Thirteen Moons on my little iphone Kindle. (I'm happy with this free version, and would not consider spending anything like $300 for a larger version. The screen itself is about the size of a business card, but the print is quite legible, and it all fits comfortably in the palm of my hand. And besides, every time a PA post is added to my email, it records a little "ding," so I have been able to keep track of this board, and even write a brief response or two, as I read.)

Back to authors always doing their best. This second of Charles Frazier's novels isn't a National Book Award winner, as was Cold Mountain, but it has every bit of the beauty of the language and the ease of storytelling as the first book. The semi-true story of a fictional character based on a historical figure is told in first person, a flashback that covers just about the entire 19th century, and tells the history of the Eastern Cherokee, those who did not go West on the Trail of Tears, but stayed in North Carolina. The history is accurate and the narrative always runs smoothly. It is a worthy book.

And I think that is my goal. Getting paid isn't a bad thing, especially as a symbol of approval for the work one loves to do, but for me, it is more about the love of doing. If I had a supreme goal, it would not be the NYT list. It would be that National Book Award. That's not a goal I would be likely to reach, but if I always do my best, mine and not somebody else's best, then I'll be a happy camper.

I prefer to write in first person, but I just couldn't sell 1st person to a publisher. I sold the same story when I switched it to third person. That happened with a novel and a short story.

I've had it thoroughly explained to me that it takes a very talented professional with major command of language to convey all characters in a story when its narrated from the 1st person perspective. However, I tell a better story from that perspective.

DK wrote:

Quote :

...it takes a very talented professional with major
command of language to convey all characters in a story when its
narrated from the 1st person perspective

Like this?

Quote :

Bear could neither read nor write [and] remained illiterate out of personal philosophy. But he loved stories, even the ones written down in books. I remember, when I was a boy, reading him long episodes from the Morte d' Arthur and the Quixote, translating into Cherokee on the fly. Bear would listen for as long as I cared to read, late into cold endless January nights when the whole world contracted within the circle of light from the fire in the center of his winterhouse. But Bear was not some isolate, living within a little narrow circumference of experience. He had seen a lot of what there was to America back then....

(Thirteen Moons, "Part One: Bone Moon," Charles Frazier, 2007)

Ann

Don't go, Don. You add too much to this board. Your thoughts and opinions are of great value to us.