Censorship in Wisconsin--Librarians losing jobs?

So that you might come down from your ivory tower and drop your know-it-all attitude.

Know it all attitude? Sorry that I view neighborhoods with hookers and strip joints as "seedy," and not optimal places to live. I don't think I'm alone in this. I guess I should have used a different word, maybe you wouldn't have gotten so pissed off about it.

Alternative?
Pre-gentrified?

Yes, maybe you should have.
For the record, I repeat that some of the finest people I have ever met lived in that neighborhood. Unlike many of those I have met in more optimal neighborhoods.
But frankly, I don't care what you think.

A story about my mother.

It was April 1968. My mother had a job as receptionist at an Episcopal Church charitable agency in the midst of one of the worst sections of Chicago. Before she took the job, her mother said she should not take this job in this area, that it was too dangerous. The rest of the family thought it was a wonderful idea, especially since my mother was so happy it had been offered to her, and the rest of us were all kind of adventurous and we thought the people there would keep her safe.

The agency helped men on "skid row" and gave them food and shelter and tried to help find solutions for their problems and better their lives. (She told me once about one man who lived on the street, and after he died it was discovered he had thousands of dollars, and I think it was even donated to the shelter, but this could just be my memory enhancing things.)

But the adventure of her work place came in a way that was unexpected and worse than any of us imagined. On April 4th of 1968, Martin Luther King was shot, and contrary to this peaceful man's beliefs, riots broke out in some of the major cities of the country, Chicago being one of them. The neighborhood of my mother's place of work was one of these places. Rioting occurred close by, Molotov cocktails were being thrown in windows and buildings were on fire. The managers at my mother's place of work immediately sent everyone home, amidst the smoke and fire beginning to fill the neighborhood.

The next few days we watched the news as the National Guard moved into Chicago, the fires were put out, and peace was restored. Some of the buildings were very old and there had been a need for parking lots which were now available, especially one by the stadium where the Chicago Blackhawks hockey team played.

My mother had been told to stay home until the managers of the shelter were sure it was safe, but she couldn't stand waiting and decided she was going back down there, that she had left everything on her desk and it was a mess and she needed some things of hers she had left behind. My father was concerned, but she convinced him she had to go, after all how dangerous could it be with the National Guard there. He said he would take her, and my eight year old daughter and I went along. We are also somewhat adventurous. It seems to run in the family.

We went down the Kennedy Expressway along with jeeps and other military vehicles and got to the neighborhood of the riots and my mother's place of business. She began scanning the streets and all of a sudden cried out excitedly, "There is Mr. Smith (not his real name)! I was worried about him. He is all right." Mr. Smith, a small haggard man, was crossing the street. Then she saw more of her "friends" and would remark with relief each time she would see a familiar face.

She cleaned up her desk and got the things she needed, although they would not let her stay to work yet. However, she was very happy, and my daughter has often talked about going down to where her grandmother worked after Martin Luther King died, to check on her grandmother's friends.

Copyright . 2007 Carol Troestler

LC

Some of the supposedly seedy folks are the best.
I worked for a Jewelry store with attached pawn shop.

The pawn shop customers were just down on their luck.

Many times I have wondered why on earth I was not robbed. A disabled woman alone. What a perfect target.

To tell the truth most of the customers were far better than the Head Elder of our church.

I called a neighborhood that was described as having strip joints and visible prostitution activity as seedy. I didn't say anything about the people in them. Yes, a lot are down on their luck, are fine people, etc., etc. And? That doesn't make their neighborhood less seedy (defined as run-down, disreputable).

The thread morphed from controversial books on a shelf to raising kids in neighborhoods full of strip joints and prostitutes. I said I didn't see what one had to do with the other. I still don't.

I imagine there were few neighborhoods in industrial cities that would have met with your snobbish standards during the Great Depression. Were strip joints mentioned somewhere? As I said before, I'd take the men who worked at Goodyear, General Tire and Mohawk Rubber over the snobs anytime, anyplace. The same for their wives who worked hard keeping their houses neat despite the factory grit. Half of the kids at that school lived at the Children's Home. Life wasn't easy for them, or any of the rest of us, but every single one turned out just fine. Give me that type any day over many of those found in the suburbs. Too bad you are offended by the area in which they lived because it didn't meet your pristine standards. That's tough.

LC Said: The thread morphed from controversial books on a shelf to raising kids in neighborhoods full of strip joints and prostitutes. I said I didn't see what one had to do with the other. I still don't.

The first thing you have said that I can actually agree with. Getting back to the topic. If parents supervise their children properly they do not have to worry about what they are reading. I do not believe that watching a violent TV show or
reading a controversial book leads to inappropriate behavior. What leads to poor behavior is a lack of morals taught and reinforced by the parents. IMHO

A. W. Nutter wrote:

If parents supervise their children properly they do not have to worry about what they are reading. I do not believe that watching a violent TV show or
reading a controversial book leads to inappropriate behavior. What leads to poor behavior is a lack of morals taught and reinforced by the parents. IMHO

I agree with most of that, Nutter. It isn't a hard and fast rule, however. Many kids from horrible backgrounds turn out fine and some who had excellent parenting do not. Some of it has to do with the individual.

A. W. Nutter wrote:

I do not believe that watching a violent TV show or reading a controversial book leads to inappropriate behavior.

Nutter, there are a lot of billions of dollars spent every year on advertising that says this statement is wrong. I agree that parents should know what their children are doing.

I also think that kids can become immune to the real truth of violence when they see so much of it on television, in their games, and in the books they read. If we were not swayed by what we see, hear, and read, then there would be no advertising.

I also know that after a child reaches a certain age, most of us are just guessing at what they're doing when they're out of our sight. I've seen a lot of parents that don't think this is true, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that we don't always know where our kids are, or what they are doing. It's not our fault, it's just the nature of kids.

I hate to agree but I find wisdom in what Dick and Don both say. Kids raised well sometimes turn out bad and kids raised poorly sometimes turn out good. I tend to agree with a lady that made this statement regarding todays youth. The problem with todays youth is they are growing uo God less, father less, and morale less. I agree with this to a point.

I never saw a child that was reared " properly."

A large order, indeed to rear a child, "properly."

Either the child was over-disciplined or spoiled rotten, allowed to roam too freely or overprotected.

They were either made to eat too many vegetables, or not enough.

They were made to work too hard or given nothing to do.

The house they lived in was either too dirty or too clean!

Who knows what to do?

It seems to me that the problem with today's kids is the same problem we have always dealt with. Today's kids, like yesterday's kids..., are kids. We cannot expect them to be miniature adults. Parents need to set and enforce limits. At the same time, they need to accept their children for who they are, and guide them into the life they were born to live. Gibran says parents are, "the bows from which your children, as living arrows, are sent forth," referring to God as the archer, "who bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far."

It seems to me that if parents start by accepting that, again as Gibran says, "Your children are not your children [but] the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself [who] come through you but are not of you," then allowing them to develop and become who they were meant to become, by setting limits appropriate to their age and development, but giving them freedom to make choices within those limits, we needn't be worried about which books are available to them, because we will have nurtured their growth in positive directions. They will have an internal strength that will help them make the right decisions at appropriate ages.

They must be able to live in the world they were born into.


Alice,

We do our best. We make mistakes. Most of them turn out fine anyway.

Ann

Ann,

I agree completely. Good post

Alice,

We have all worked hard raising our children. It was not for naught. We kept them safe, loved them, nurtured them. We did our best, which for us was admirable and honorable. Parents are important.

Carol

Carol,

I agree, we did work very hard however I never knew for certain anything I did was right.

Our kids like us, vacation with us, are sucessful people, but do not copy our ways of dealing wth their children.

Our home was run with precision. We had a time for everything. Got out of bed ate breakfast, hauled kids to school, cleaned house, picked kids up from school referred their fights until dad arrived home ate dinner at the table by 6:00, at 7:00 started bedtime baths stories etc. Kids in bed and settled by 8:30.

Our kids do not do anything like that. They are educated too. Everything lands in a heap on the floor. They have no dinner time. The kids are in bed and getting out of bed untl 9:30 at night. I am sure they will turn out just fine--so far so good.

I look back on it as a huge waste of time. When our daughter was a baby she had a bath twice a day. Look at Dick, he grew up just fine without all of that intervention

I think if my folks had done nothing with my brother he would have been much better off.

Ann,
good post. How many of Gibran's book have you read?

Alice,

Good post. I began with precision, with the baths, the set bedtimes, etc.

But along about child number four and a husband with a schedule where he was just as likely to work on Christmas as well as a Tuesday, I had to learn not to be precise. Not easy for people like you and me.

I am orderly. Some of my children are orderly and some not. All six have education past high school.

I think parenting is the most difficult task I've ever had. And that includes things like chemotherapy, a master's degree, and running a business.

I like Gibran's ideas. I need to read his books.

I need to read lots of books. I need to write. I need to complete books I've begun to write. I'm working on thoughts of hiring my granddaughter to do some research on publishers for me this summer, but I've got to get my writing in more finished states to do that.

Love, Carol

Abe,

I have read The Prophet, Jesus, Son of Man, and Garden of the Prophet, and bits of a couple of others. but it is The Prophet that I keep a little copy of on my desk, and read frequently.

Carol, they are usually short little books, and very readable. He just makes so much sense.

Ann

Ann,

I did read the Prophet long ago and forgot it was by Gibran.

Carol

Alice,

I think we all try to correct our parents mistakes - or what we see as their mistakes. I have an appointment to visit Jaycie and her parents tonight; we will Skype while Lynn and Chris are here for dinner. She is all smiles now, and settling into an almost routine. She has Lyn and Dave pretty well in line. They are very, very conscientious, as older new parents tend to be.

I think there is a wide range of parenting methods that work for most kids.

Ann

And I think we all need to be ourselves. We are not only disciplining and nurturing but also modeling. And sometimes children decide to be the opposite of those models or like those models. And sometimes just being our selves is the best modeling we can do, with the idea of each of our children being themselves. I tried to do that and I think I accomplished it, but sometimes wonder.

And I still worry about them. I don't think that will ever end.

Last night at a 50th wedding anniversary party, a daughter, who is an accountant, gave a wonderful speech about the number of weeks, days and minutes that had been in her parents' lives together. When she got down to the minutes, she spoke of those being enough time to give a loving glance or touch a hand. Accountant Alice, you would have loved it.

Carol

Ann loved the excerpt you posted from The Prophet. I will be picking a copy up. Thanks

AW,

I believe you will enjoy it.

Ann

Carol,

I honestly do not know how you did it. Two kids were doable six--I don't know what I'd have done.

I hope your childen were compliant and non-adventursome.

Mine were in gear every second of the day--trying to kill themselves and each other, as well as the neighbors.

The childen all ran in a pack and were scary. It is funny now.

Alice,

They were non-compliant and adventurous.

Carol