Current Book trailers a dissection.

Jenny wrote:

Like other members of this board, I posted my videos, produced by my publisher for interest, not for criticism. My publisher took time in preparing the video and quote frankly is disgusted with the comments that have been made. I'm more that happy to pass on the address if anyone would like to take instruct them on where they are going wrong!

Jenny please do not be offended.
I was not aiming anything at you or your publisher. My comments were honest not vindictive or spiteful in any way I have read and re read the post and I do not see what there is to be offended by?

The moment anyone posts or publishes any form of content they open themselves up to other peoples citicism, whether expressed openly or quietly our work is judged. That is a fact of life. Just as surely as my post is judged.
But hey I aint afraid of criticism if I was I would never perform my magic in public or play my guitar in public or write my stories.
Let me say it again I was not criticising you or your work or your publisher.
Sorry sorry sorry.

If I'd asked for your criticism or anyone elses on this board, I wouldn't be offended. I didn't, nor did my publisher.

As it happens, I'm not the only person who found your remarks offensive.

dmondeo wrote:

I was not aiming anything at you or your publisher. My comments were honest not vindictive or spiteful in any way I have read and re read the post and I do not see what there is to be offended by?

Then I'd suggest you learn the art of finesse. Most of us on this board have 'honest' opinions, but we construct them in a way that is not hurtful or offensive to others. Most of us could be very brutal if we choose. We do not

I don't think David has seen either your video, Brenda, or Jenny's. The videos he has been viewing are posted on the network site. Here, he has posted on this thread and I'm the only one to add a link to a video. On the other thread he posted on, I'm the only one who added a link to a video (and I don't think he saw it!):

http://www.publishedauthors.org/chatter-box-f3/book-trailers-t1964-15.htm

I would be able to find your video and Jenny's on the forum but I doubt very much if anyone else could. Here's the challenge (not to Jenny or Brenda): please post a link to either Brenda's video or Jenny's.

It's not the actual videos, Shelagh, that I find offensive. It's his attitude and choice of words.

As I tried to explain earlier, if he would have said he was researching videos and found that this or that worked best, such as pics as opposed to text, he would have had my respect. Instead, he gave his 'expert' opinion that none he'd viewed so far was good.

He liked yours. That's wonderful. However, he could have said, I liked yours, Shelagh, because of this or that. He didn't. He said it was the best, and that meant he'd appointed himself as judge.

But neither of you gets it.

What if I'd read several first chapters on the First Chapter thread and said that most weren't any good because of this reason or that one. What if I'd said, Bozo, your first chatper was the best out of all of them.

Who made me the judge? And why would I ever say such a thing? I'd risk hurt feelings and defensive anger. Look what happens when someone says something like, PA sucks.

To be a writer, to communicate with others, means learning how words affect others. He has a lot to learn - and that's my opinion.

Actually, Shelagh, I disagree. David said, and I quote,

"I have just finished my study of the current book trailers found on this site."

The words 'On this site,' implies this forum.

Brenda Hill wrote:

He liked yours. That's wonderful. However, he could have said, I liked yours, Shelagh, because of this or that. He didn't. He said it was the best, .

Now your saying I said things I did not say. I said "it is one of the better ones". Not the best. re read my post. Please! I also gave the reasons why. It's a shame that you're so hurt by all this. I can't win can I? I am not playing any more so pick up the toys and put them back in the pram please.

Jenny wrote:

Actually, Shelagh, I disagree. David said, and I quote,

"I have just finished my study of the current book trailers found on this site."

The words 'On this site,' implies this forum.

Sorry Jenny but it doesn't. This forum is part of the network. That's the way it was set up. It is not a stand-alone forum. In fact, one of the members asked:

Reply by Susan MacTabert on July 29, 2008 at 9:36pm

Hi,
Glad to be here and hoping to share publishing info, especially self-publishing. I'm wondering why there are two forum pages. I'm also wondering if I'm doing this post correctly cos I can't find any instructions (Capricorns need instructions). If there are user hints, I'd appreciate a nudge in their direction. Just as I was about to sign-in SoCal surprised us with another quake. But since it didn't center in Palmdale and the La Brea Tar Pits have not errupted into Mt. Wilshire, I thought I'd just get on with this post. Thanks for being so welcoming, Shelagh.
Susan

I replied:

Reply by Shelagh Watkins on July 29, 2008 at 11:05pm

Hi Susan,

Welcome to the forum! This is the network forum. I set up the Published Authors Forum because many of the members here couldn't figure out how to use the network and are much happier with a forum, where they can use smilies in their posts and chat informally. Please use both, you would be very welcome on the forum as much as on the network. We are a friendly bunch!

~Shelagh


http://publishedauthors.ning.com/forum/topics/956540:Topic:90?page=7&commentId=956540%3AComment%3A57408&x=1#956540Comment57408

The network and the forum are all part of the same site, Published Authors.

In that case, Shelagh, Davd should state EXACTLY where he saw the videos to clarify matters.

Brenda Hill wrote:

As I tried to explain earlier, if he would have said he was researching videos and found that this or that worked best, such as pics as opposed to text, he would have had my respect. Instead, he gave his 'expert' opinion that none he'd viewed so far was good.

That's exactly what he did say:

dmondeo wrote:

I have just finished my study of the current book trailers found on this site.
I did this to find out which trailers work for me and which don't.
These are my findings and no disrespect is intended to anyone.

Far too many are way too wordy. They try to give too much plot content and as a result fail to hook the viewer. A deluge of info can be off putting.
The better trailers are brief using only a small story out line written in one liners only to entice the readers interest rather than convey a full synopsis.

When using images in a moving format care is needed especially with written words that require reading, it is wise to think of the poor reader, it is hard enough work to read reams of text quickly on a small screen even worse if it is moving, sliding, spinning and scrolling around. That is another reason to keep the written info brief. ...

David is no longer playing this game and has stated that he will not be revealing which videos he watched because he is not wanting to bruise any more egos. People seem to mis quote what he say's and he is currently undergoing therapy at a well known rest home for wayward naughty newbie authors who need to mind their pees and que's.

I love your sense of humour! I think I would keep mum, too, under the circumstances!

I would think, Shelagh, that you'd be a little more savvy as to how words are phrased or even to self-appointed judges.

I think I'll mosey over to the first chapters thread and pick the best one. And I'll be sure to post the result.

Or perhaps I'll take a survey of everyone's website and announce which one is the best. But like the first chapters thread, I don't expect to step on toes because I'll post this:

These are my findings and no disrespect is intended to anyone.

Brenda Hill wrote:

As I tried to explain earlier, if he would have said he was researching videos and found that this or that worked best, such as pics as opposed to text, he would have had my respect. Instead, he gave his 'expert' opinion that none he'd viewed so far was good.

... and look what happened when he said that one of them was good! He only said it to wind you up. He could have said that it was rubbish. In fact, why don't you give me your honest opinion. You'll feel a lot better and although I would appreciate the constructive criticism (you don't need a disclaimer), I'm too busy to make any changes. The trailer has been out for almost twelve months and I still haven't got around to adding Amazon at the end of the video (I made the video before it went onto Amazon).

... but then again, I do run sites with over 870 members (Ning), and groups with over 900 members (LibraryThing), 650 members (LinkedIn) and 425 members (Goodreads). There just isn't enough time for everything.

Oops, I almost forgot, I run this place too!

Jenny wrote:

Like other members of this board, I posted my videos, produced by my publisher for interest, not for criticism. My publisher took time in preparing the video and quote frankly is disgusted with the comments that have been made. I'm more that happy to pass on the address if anyone would like to take instruct them on where they are going wrong!

I guess where he went wrong, then, was giving unsolicited comments, especially since they weren't complimentary?

Just my own take, and I'm not addressing anyone's book trailers (I rarely view them). I was surprised to read that your publisher was "disgusted" with the comments (esp. since I didn't see what there was to be disgusted with, myself). My pubs welcome and pay for reviewers to comment on their stuff precisely because comments are so hard to elicit. Most people won't spend their time and effort reviewing other people's stuff for free. I can hardly even get other teachers and people in the field to answer my own questions. They don't want to be bothered and usually want something in return.

But I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of this board is; that is, I know there is a WIP critique board, but the rest of the site mostly seems to be for positive support (nothing wrong with that). That being the case, I can see where unsolicited comments on work would not be appreciated.

For those of you who question why certain members were upset, it's because dmondeo announced he'd viewed several videos from this site and stated his judgment of those videos.

It would be the same principle if I suddenly announced that I'd looked at all the posts on this site and found them lacking - in sentence structure, in grammar, interest, or in technique.

BUT, I didn't name anyone in particular as terrible, and I posted that I didn't mean to offend anyone, and if anyone was offended, I'd say that since I didn't name anyone, how could they get offended? And, to top it off, I prounounced one person's post as the best.

If no one can see the problem with that, then I can say no more.

If someone is able to persuade me that book trailers have a connection to selling books, I'll hire Mr. Munday to produce one and submit it here for your critique. If nothing else, longevity of this lovefest will be assured.

I understand what you are saying, Brenda. Oftentimes, it's not what you say but how you say it.

Brenda Hill wrote:

For those of you who question why certain members were upset, it's because dmondeo announced he'd viewed several videos from this site and stated his judgment of those videos.

It would be the same principle if I suddenly announced that I'd looked at all the posts on this site and found them lacking - in sentence structure, in grammar, interest, or in technique.

BUT, I didn't name anyone in particular as terrible, and I posted that I didn't mean to offend anyone, and if anyone was offended, I'd say that since I didn't name anyone, how could they get offended? And, to top it off, I prounounced one person's post as the best.

If no one can see the problem with that, then I can say no more.

It isn't the same at all. Trailers are put onto youtube to be viewed, assessed (five stars) and commented upon. Likewise, the videos on the network.

When I added my first attempt at producing a video, it received nine 5-star ratings and 15 comments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ARcUjrh3A&feature=channel_page

The video has been viewed 470 times.

I used the comments to produce two more improved videos. The final video received 1,914 views, two 5-star and one 4-star rating and one comment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ZV9cbyIEY&feature=channel

If no one had bothered to comment, I probably would not have made the improvements. You are right, Brenda, I just do not get all this touchy-feely stuff.

Marie, those links were awesome!!! I want to read both of those children's books now. And, I want to call someone an idiot fig! ** giggling madly **

I actually found the reviews quite interesting, and I am talking to heart the consructive criticisms that I believe were in good spirit to be helpful. They were helpful to me. I guess this thread proves the adage that "consructive criticism" does not exist. Criticism is just that. However, I took the comments as constructive. I found the tit for tat a bit harsh and ego reflective.

A friend read my recent short story submission today and said, "the story flowed well." I was after a bit more than "flowed well." so I got the message. He suggested a different ending too. He didn't like the story at all. I was disappointed.........so much for constructive criticism.

What an interesting thread. What I found facinating is how hurt different members felt by the original post.
I wondered if this fellow were to post a paragraph or two with blank spaces where key words should go, how many would be offended by what he could have said?
That is the thing with words they in them selves convey no real emotion.
The emotion felt often is triggered by one's own subconscious. This reaction often labled "past conditional response" relates to our past experiences and is a defense mechanism.

The poor chap was only expressing his own impression of these trailers:)
Simon my co writer thought the whole issue was funny.
It led to a discussion about how much people read their own emotional state into words or phrases that are on their own neutral.

We are writng a phsycology book by the way, this has inspired us.
And no we will not be making any trailers for it. But he is more than welcome to offer his opinion on our work any time
It was fun perhaps we will sign up

I have book videos that really rock, actually. See my site.

The criticism of videos from publishers overlooks two things:

1 Most publisher-created videos are very generic, cranked out quickly and fitting the same format. They are designed for promo purposes, not necessarily to make people rabid about the book.
It's one reason I've tried to make available the info for authors to make their own. Ahad's is a pretty good example of non-generic, to say the least. And of the sort of thing that somebody might pick on for technical reasons but is quite likely to get mailed around and posted for "viral promotion".

2 The book video operates as a whole. It's not a vehicle to deliver text. Having nice music and nice visuals helps make a positive association with the book and deliver the viewer to the address at the end in a state of mind that might lead to them looking up the publisher or title.

The task is not really to make sure everybody lingers over every word, but to do something memorable and pleasurable. The ultimate goal is to do something that will get passed on and referred.

lin wrote:

The task is not really to make sure everybody lingers over every word, but to do something memorable and pleasurable. The ultimate goal is to do something that will get passed on and referred.

I thought the ultimate goal was to sell the book?

Naw. Book sales are incidenal. The important thing is the number of hits gotten by the trailer.