Fed up with seeing terror suspects' photos everywhere

I don't believe we are morons. I just believe we "let someone else" take care of things that we need to care for ourselves. We have our daily lives to contend with and when we go to the voting booth we vote for what we have heard, not really a factual decision but one based on Madison Avenue ads of no merit.

Only be becoming engaged in the political process will we have an eye that sees and ears that hear. On the sidelines, we are simply their pawns; our vote a rubber stamp for things in which we do not believe.

4/23/2013
As I said the public are "MORONS !" they keep voting in
the same "CLOWNS!" that goes from congress, Senate
and the president who don't know their tush from their
elbows..........

LC wrote:

Quote :

If we want to end these attacks, we have to try to see a little of where they came from.

Agree. There's an article on HuffPo right now saying they were inspired by revenge for the Afghan and Iraq wars. I'm not surprised. Maybe if we stopped spending billions terrorizing Middle Eastern countries, mostly to prop up the disruptive, apartheid state of Israel, we might not need so much Homeland Security.

Agree, LC. We know that for every action, there is a reaction. When will we understand this?
The reason/cause for terrorist activity must be understood if we are to affect change.

Alice, in my book, "They Plotted Revenge" I think reasons are made clear.

I also make reference to this in my first book. When I interviewed a Palestinian I learned much. At that time, highjackings were happening. The Palestinian said, " Didnt' the blacks in America become voilent? They did and doing so got them their rights. If we do nothing, nothing happens. We must do things that will get international attention if we are to get our rights."

There is always justification for actis of violence in the eyes of those oppressed. We prefer non-violent activity, but often that doesn't get results. We only give attention to extreme measures. Often is it a question of "how many" have been killed forgetting that a single life is important. It is a numbers game. How many need to be killed to call something a holocaust? How many must be killed to be termed a terrorist act?

When there is any disaster natural or otherwise, the media tries to go after the numbers. They interview people and try to get a number of casualties. The more casualties the better the story.

I tried to make a post yesterday and did it online. When I hit the publish/send button, I was disconnected. What I had written was lost. Too tired to redo. Didn't think it important enough.

We knew why the blacks were violent.
No amount of explaining will justify what happened at Boston.
Not to me anyway.
To blow up completely innocent folks with no warning.
It makes no sense.

For me, Alice, violence never makes sense except to the person engaged in the act. I have never felt better when I lost my temper or the singular time I struck my 16 yr old in the face (he said "f... y..").

Violence comes from a deep and primeval place and does not belong in a modern world of rules and courts.

However, many people are still nearly primeval as they struggle for enough to eat and survival itself. That's when those primeval emotions are near the surface.

DK,
Your response was not good, striking your son in the face, but many folks have had that same reaction when dealing with mouthy teenagers. At least you didn't
go and slap some unsuspecting baby. You managed to direct your hostility towards the cause of your angst.
The Boston terrorists gave no warning or reason for their untoward actions.

Interesting how we react to situations. When does one pause and decide how to react? It is usually an instant reaction. We may feel sorry that we acted the way we did, but can't change the action.

I want to make it clear that I don't condone acts of violence. My comments were in an effort to expalin why some do what they do. In their mind, they are doing what they think is right. Many regret and are sorry afterwards, but it is too late. We must try to understand why people do what they do and try to correct the problem. If we just kill the person, we may never learn why they did what they did that may help us prevent another killing.
Why did Timothy McVeigh, an American, do what he did in the Oklahoma City bombing, one of the deadliest acts of terrorism in American history? Could that have been prevented? I don't know. We must recognize that terrorists come in all nationalities, as with the killing in Sweden. They also come with varied religious backgrounds. Being in a hurry to point fingers, especially at Muslims, only adds to the tensions.

The title to this thread points out the promotion given to them. They get the limelight they seek via the media.

I'm with you, Alice.

The motivation of terrorists is relevant--to a point. Every heinous act can be justified in our relativistic universe. But we don't need to walk a mile in anyone's shoes and should not care what excuse passes for justification when innocent civilians are targeted. This is true whether we're dealing with machete wielding thugs in Nigeria raping and maiming other Nigerians, or thugs in Serbia using rape as a tactic of war, or Palestinians blowing up school buses full of Israeli children, or a dozen hypocrites flying two planes into the World trade Center in the name of their religion (after a night of drinking at strip clubs no less), or the Boston brothers targeting innocent marathon runners and spectators. Nothing justifies those acts in a civilized world. Nothing. Those who commit those acts and their apologists are unworthy of sympathy, understanding or a forum to express real or imagined grievances.

We are not a perfect nation. We have done wrong many times in the past to our own people and to others, just as we also helped save the world twice in concert with our allies (first and foremost always and forever our brothers and sisters in the U.K.) and have continually since then spent countless treasure and priceless lives in an attempt to make the world a safer place. I will not stand by listen to any lecture on the moral equivalence of terror to acts of war in defense of those who practice it. Terrorists purposely use the innocent as shields (their own people) and targets (their "enemies'" people). There is no moral equivalency in
these acts. There is no justification for terror. Those who argue otherwise are a part of the problem.

Academic debates on the root causes of terror notwithstanding, the root cause of terror for those who use their religion as a justification by pointing to passages in holy texts that justify their misdeeds while ignoring inconvenient others that condemn those actions is the imposition of their will by any means necessary. I find that point of view reprehensible and do not respect, support, or accept it.

I do support the concept of a Palestinian state; Palestinians are no less worthy of a homeland than are Israelis. I do not support using that reasonable and worthy aspiration as an excuse to blow up innocent people. The ends do not justify the means. I criticize Israel and any other ally when I believe their policies are unjust--and accept such criticism of U.S. policies when it is warranted. Those who seek to appease Islamist terrorists need to take a hard look at what they want: 1. to erase Israel from the face of the earth; 2. to establish a world-wide Califate;and 3. to convert all "non believers" or exterminate them. I invite anyone who believes these are goals that we should all embrace to go to the head of the line and attempt to establish a dialogue and negotiations with those who espouse them. But don't expect me to follow along.

During the eight years I taught at my school district's night high school, I had to deal, on a regular basis, with young people who had no other recourse than violence. It was their only power source. Those of us who post here have access to other sources. We may not think of ourselves as wealthy, but we obviously have access to computers and the internet. Therefore, we have some access to both wealth and knowledge, the other two sources of power according to Alvin Toffler, author of Future Shock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock

We all need to feel that we have some sort of control over our daily lives. We all feel the need to belong to a group of people with some sense of "alikeness." Belonging to a group gives us a feeling of support, which increases our feelings of having some element of control over our lives.

When we have enough monetary funds, enough access to information about how to succeed in the world we live in, we have a strong enough sense of security to act in a responsible way. When we are denied these rights, we lash out. People who feel like "outsiders" are always more prone to violent means for gaining a sense of control.

One thing we can do is to include those outsiders by eliminating the boundaries caused by a sense of being "different."

There is no "right" side in this religious war. We cannot afford to choose sides, no matter what our personal prejudices might be.

Hatred is hatred, especially when we hate others for being different from us. Hate breeds hate. Attempting to understand those who are different from is creates a space where we can begin to chanbe things.

It is too late for the Tsarnaev brothers. It is not too late for us. We can choose to find ways to begin the process of understanding why they felt so disenfranchised that they were willing to do these horrendous deeds.

they made their choices and must face the consequences. We can choose to let go of our own hatred and fear long enough to see that it doesn't happen again.

dkchristi wrote:

I agree. However, media is governed by ratings. If people refused to watch and refused to purchase the products advertised, they would change, just as they drop tv shows that have ratings slips.

The people of the United States have options greater than any country in the history of the world. Yet, we give up our options to Madison avenue, news media, special interest groups and lobbyists. Those with the squeeky wheel are heard - but mobilizing the public is often a thankless task.

We need to take a lesson from a small organization in Immokalee Florida that managed to force the major tomato users to pay a penny more for their product. Their office was a tiny, spartan room with a few computers and volunteers, many of whom spoke no English. Yet, they mounted a political campaign that reached across the nation - targeted and with a goal that was reasonable.

We no longer have a representative democracy - at least not one that represents you and me. We have a system of government where the most money wins. Period. We are concerned with our daily employment and getting by in life - and the bigger picture feels distant and we leave it in the hands of the politicians.

If we don't want news to always repeat the bad and the ugly, we need to stop watching the bad and the ugly and refuse to buy the products advertised. Note that an athlete that goes "bad" loses his commercial contracts - in fear that people won't buy them.

Apparently, we are paying for what we want.

I agree. And yes, force the media to put these type stories in the shade just may detour others from wanting to all get well known.

Every good thing made into law to protect, also has a down side. We would have to be willing to give up free speech. Then maybe everybody would have to be off the streets at night for the safety of all. And why not allow the police to stop anybody and check their papers, and search them for weapons, etc. This country was started to get away from that stuff.

People already tried giving up rights for safety…Germany under the Nazi Rule. Within twelve years, twenty million killed. Me, I’m for having the nuts blow a few of us up. Besides, why does anybody think having to live in a country with no rights is going to stop the nuts from killing?

That's my problem, Ann, I don't see how we can ensure it does not happen again.
It was not a normal reaction.
Who hated them? I never even heard of them. I don't hate them now--though I hate what they did.

I am a Christian. My best friend…he and me are like flesh brothers. He is a born, and raised Muslim. He follows the Quran.

Americans need to come to an understanding of what the Quarn says. It is not just another religion. It is very different. The Muslim is commanded by their God, to subdue the non-believer, and if they can not subdue them, the non-believer is to be killed. A non-believer is one who does not follow the Quran.

When Muslims are in a country not theirs, they will act like the local people. When they get into power by voting power, or State, and Federal positions, they will make effort to subdue the non-Muslim.

It is in the Quran, and my best friend an I have talked on this subject many times. He claims, “Not all Muslims are terrorist. And that is true…but, not all people of a country are in the Military.
Those Muslims who do kill do not call themselves terrorist…they call themselves fighters for God.

There is no changing the belief of a Muslim. It’s not a case of, “If we just except them as one of us, everything will be okay.” These are people who believe…if they kill you, the non-believer, they will go to heaven.
My friend says he would only kill to protect his family. I believe him. But, if the holy war expanded, and killing was openly in the streets of America, he would be forced to kill the non-believer in order to save his family.
Every non=Muslim, should read the Quran. You can buy a copy in any book store in English.

Bad , sad situation.
Victor,
Time for a new impossible topic.
LOL

alice wrote:

That's my problem, Ann, I don't see how we can ensure it does not happen again.
It was not a normal reaction.
Who hated them? I never even heard of them. I don't hate them now--though I hate what they did.

Alice, I have written many times here about people having different perspectives. This is an example. The people who commit these violent crimes do not see the world the way we see it.

The Judeo-Christian Bible contains passages that seem to espouse violent solutions and hatred of those who hold a different faith. Those passages have been used, in times past, to justify wars and violent solutions. People read into these books what they choose to focus on and find, just as we all, day in and day out, choose to focus on certain aspects of the reality we see around us.

There is no justification for what these two brothers apparently did.(and I stuck that word "apparently" in that sentence as a legal disclaimer. The evidence against them is pretty clear). It was a despicable, hateful act, born out of a worldview based on hatred and fear.

From our perspective, it was not a "normal" act.They did not see the same world we see.

The way I see it, hatred is born out of fear, just as compassion is born out of love. Love and fear are polar extremes. Fear, in and of itself, is not always a bad thing. It is a survival tool.we cannot live without it. But it can become irrational, and can be the controlling aspect of our worldviews. When that happens, we see enemies everywhere, and believe that we need to eradicate them. We look for justification, and often find it in our sacred books, and hear it espoused in leaders who who are as afraid as we are.

So, do we base our own perspectives on fear or love? When confronted with the real evil of fear-based actions, it is easy to get sucked in. Reacting out of our own fear seems to be a justifiable solution as well.

We do not live in a perfect world. We live in a world that contains both evil and good. Even inside our own heads, we have our own shadows. We are all capable of committing evil acts, given the "right" circumstances. We are not perfect either. It is easier to live from our positive side when we are comfortable. When we have enough to eat; when we have a safe roof over our heads; when we have a loving support group; when we belong.

I remember a movie I saw years ago.The main character was an American Jew who was called to the Middle East during the late 1940's, to help the newly proclaimed people of Israel defend themselves against those who refused to accpt the UN decision. One of the people he came to know was a young Jewish woman who did not care much for Americans, whom she saw as frivolous. "You talk of horror," she said to him. "Americans think horror is having to go to the bathroom outside the house." That really struck me. "Horror" is a relative term, just like so much of our perspective is relative to our circumstances.

We do no live in a simple, either/or world. Things are not black and white, so their are no easy, clear-cut answers.

Not all Muslims are jihadists. There are many passages in the Koran which espouse living from a loving perspective. But life, in their homeland, is very different from life in America. We have far more opportunities to live comfortably enough for us to feel a from a basic sense of security, and if we don't feel secure, it is hard to choose to live our lives out of love rather than fear. So long as there are people living fear-based lives, there will be those who choose violent solutions. Isn't it in our own best interests tolearn more about these people who are different, and find ways to help them feel more secure, so that they, to, can make more love-based choices?

It is a complex situation and we will not solve it overnight. Right here at home we see families who indoctrinate their children with their fear-based perspectives. The degree may be different; the solutions less radical, but if we dig deep enough, we can see that we are all the same underneath the "fronts" we show those around us.

We have to try. Otherwise, we live in our own terror.

Good perspective, Ann.

Very well said, Ann. I see things in this regard much the same as you. My belief is that we must always seek the higher ground as difficult as it may appear.

Does that mean we must endure days of unending publicity?
How about more coverage of the helpers?
I would like to focus on the good people and there are lots of them.
Why must we hear the name of the fiend over and over again?

There have been many heartwarming stories. Bostonians have a lot to be proud of these days.

For sure. We can help by making monetary donations.

4/25/2013
Blessed are the deceased and the wounded, may God
heal them from their wounds the the horrors of terror..

Joe

Very interesting thread. What sticks with me is the “action” and “reaction” thing.
We react to acts of violence in an effort to punish. We punish and hope that it is a deterrent to further acts of violence. When have we taken proactive steps? There seems to be signs of smoke at home and abroad on a regular basis. Many recognize that fire could break out at any time, however we wait until the fire is burning before taking action.

Murder is murder. Taking a life because a person took another life is the religious “eye for an eye” thing. We tend to justify certain acts while at the same time saying there is no justification for acts of violence. We engage in war where killing is inflicted to punish the killers. People own guns for self-defense. They are prepared to commit violence against those who pose a threat. It seems that justification is part of our lives.

Have you met people who are never wrong? Even when they are knowingly wrong, they justify their acts and will deny having made a mistake. We tend to respect a person who is big enough to admit they made a mistake or simply to say, “I was wrong.” Take that on the International level and you have a country that refuses to admit any wrong doing. George Bush may have recovered some respect if he had admitted he made a mistake in invading Iraq. Then we wonder why we as a country are losing respect around the world. We can do no wrong and if we do, we attempt to justify our actions. We spread BS and expect it won’t stink.

The question: “What can we do to prevent acts of terror?” Don’t know, but I do think being proactive is a start. Talking instead of sending rockets takes patience and is wise.

I think it is human nature to search for our own "right" beliefs and stick with them. They put organization into a complex life experience, even if they are wrong in many ways. I don't know if there is any cure.

I see that when people meet, one to one, and share family activities and common goals, hopes and aspirations, they develop a greater ability to absorb new ideas about each other's beliefs.

However, during the last election, people that I hold dear in my heart were so steadfastly angry and without compassion for those with fewer opportunities in life that I lost respect for them and so it worked in reverse.

I don't know the answer. I do know I consider myself open to new ideas and thoughts yet I hold tight to certain, unchangeable beliefs for my own behavior and my hopes for the behavior of others.

Quote :

George Bush may have recovered some respect if he had admitted he made a mistake in invading Iraq.

Abe -I'm not sure it was a "mistake" so much as he was taking orders for an agenda that none of us know about. Maybe a giant false flag operation, who knows. I don't discount anything and don't mind wearing a tinfoil hat. Sometimes it's warranted.