Should Federal Govt Bail Out Book Authors?

Poor book authors, people out of work have no money to purchase our wares
How about a book stamp program.

What do you think?

I think that these are dire economic times and in such times, the government needs to receive sufficient revenue to provide jobs in the rebuilding of infrastructure such as was done with the WPA. I believe the people need a bailout; once employed, they will spend what they earn because they have had so little for so long and the economy will grow.

Alice, your always spouting doom and gloom and your wrong. You just have't written what readers want to buy. Look at Twilight. Harry Potter is another. Vampires and demons sell big. Romance sells are still huge. We'll always have ones that sell good while most others don't.

A lady at my church is absolutely thrilled. She bought 100 books from her vanity press, and she has sold all but 20. For her, that is success. I think selling 100 books pays for the vanity press costs.

One thing about paying a vanity press: it creates an incentive to sell, sell,sell.

lyntx wrote:

Alice, your always spouting doom and gloom and your wrong. You just have't written what readers want to buy. Look at Twilight. Harry Potter is another. Vampires and demons sell big. Romance sells are still huge. We'll always have ones that sell good while most others don't.

Thank you! Charmed.

I"m glad.

11/20/2011


I don't believe author's should buy their
own books, bad policy, if the public wants
it, let them buy it...


Cheers..Joe...

Here's the thing. I gave a seminar at a garden center. She did not want to sell my books. She did not want to pay me. She did give me the opportunity to sell my own books. First I had to buy them wholesale and then sell them retail. I did sell lots of books. If I had insisted on her ordering the books and selling them from the store till, I would have made nothing on the books but royalties. Worse case, I would have had no seminar and no book sales.

DK, you seem to do real well with your self-promotion, I've always been impressed about that. If anyone can sell an indie book, it's you.

check your pm...

Quote :

Alice, your always spouting doom and gloom and your wrong. You just have't written what readers want to buy. Look at Twilight. Harry Potter is another. Vampires and demons sell big. Romance sells are still huge. We'll always have ones that sell good while most others don't.

I don't perceive Alice's posts as gloom and doom, just an obvious statement that there probably ARE too many authors writing too many books for the traditional indie routes to accommodate them all anymore with any success.

LC wrote:

Quote :

Alice, your always spouting doom and gloom and your wrong. You just have't written what readers want to buy. Look at Twilight. Harry Potter is another. Vampires and demons sell big. Romance sells are still huge. We'll always have ones that sell good while most others don't.

I don't perceive Alice's posts as gloom and doom, just an obvious statement that there probably ARE too many authors writing too many books for the traditional indie routes to accommodate them all anymore with any success.

I agree, and she also has a somewhat ironic sense of humor.

Ann

Appropos of nothing, PA's Facebook page has over 8,500 "likes" now. LOL!

BTW, I see that Penguin is now the latest to jump on the self-publishing bandwagon with their "Book Country" website. How can anyone say there AREN'T too many authors now, when traditional publishers are able to monetize their slushpiles like this?

If your only looking at that one post, LC, you can agree, but how about all the others? And of course Anns going to say how wonderful she is.

I checked threads back months and years, and this used to be a big popular forum with lots of writers. Now its only a handful. So since you all think Alices offensive remarks is only her since of humor, I'll leave you with each other and find a forum where writers encourage each other and actually talk about writing.

Shelagh, thanks for letting me on here even though I haven't published anything yet. I wish you well.

lyntx -this has actually never been a "big popular forum with lots of writers," at least in the three or so years I've posted here. I think there are multiple reasons for that, one being that it's just so very hard to get a forum -any forum- off the ground. Outside AW, all writing forums are quite small. The other one I like, Writers.net, is pretty small, too.

I agree that this forum is smaller than it used to be, though, and there are other reasons for that. I've outlined them before, though, so no need to rehash. Alice wasn't one of them.

That's your opinion, LC, and that ok. I left before because of Alice and I'm leaving now because of her, her negative posts about writing and books. How do you know other writers didnt leave because of her? You don't.

I'm tired of fighting with her, tired of trying to overcome her 'quirky humor' that all of you thinks is so good. I leave you to her.

lyntx wrote:

Shelagh, thanks for letting me on here even though I haven't published anything yet. I wish you well.

Thanks Lyn! I wish you well too! If you need any help in the future, you know where to find me.

I've been trying to decide for several hours as to whether I should post anything about this situation.

Personally, I hope lyntx changes her mind. There is much to be learned here. I've been experiencing that for the past week or so, with the help I've received in designing my cover for Redstone's Valley, which incidentally is not the same as the series of shorts called Redstone Stories that are currently available free on Amazon Kindle, Barnes & Noble, and Smashwords. Same characters, different plots

A couple of times lately, I have found myself involved in what I call "defining the situation." These comments are not directed at anyone in particular, but to a general audience.

For now, I feel a need to say that I have never directed a negative comment towards lyntx. She seems to have taken offence to a couple of my posts, one where I said that I was not eager to write "formulaic" fiction, that I preferred to attempt to write literary fiction. I stand by that. I define formulaic to mean the highly proscribed format that appears to be required of major publ;ishers these days, in whatever genre. Since my writing would most often be termed "romantic," I was addressing that genre most specifically.

Not all romantic writing is formulaic. Many romances are of a high literary quality, and this includes many being written today, including for example, DK Christi's Ghost Orchid and and Shelagh's Persuasion. Romantic writing is not necessarily limited to fiction. My book, A Myth in Actiion: The Herioc Life of Audie Murphy, also meets the criteria for Romantic writing. Whether or not is is of a literary quality is not for me to say, and I have never made that claim for it. My unpublished fantasy novel, And Adam was a Gardener, my unfinished family history novel, Ailcy's Legacy, my published poems, "The Rest Home," "Lady Audrey," and "Three Dreams," and my current trilogy, The Redstone Saga and short story anthology,Redstone Stories, all qualify as Romantic lit. Again, I do not nor have I ever, deemed them to be literary. That is my aim, but I do not have the right to decide whether or not they meet the criteria.

The other post of mine that lyntx apparently took offence to had to do with a very talented, but also quite pompous student, who was trying to convince me thast his term project could be on the western novels of Louis L'Amour. I told him that I, too, had read all of L'Amour's books and enjoyed them,(They are, in fact, influential in my current projects), but that they were not of sufficient literary quality for a term project from one of my brightest students. I expected more of him, and told him so by saying that I often read this author's books because, "I could read them with one eye while I tended my children with the other." Not knowing anything about my relationship with my students, or our everyday working relationship, lyntx decided that this was a demeaning comment, and has used it on several occasions to define my abilities as a teacher.

When I attempted to explain that she had misconstrued my meaning and intent in these two of my 5000+ posts here on this forum, she told me that it was my responsibility to make sure that I had worded them so that she would understand. I respectfully disagree. Any reader of any work brings their own responsibility to the interchange, and that involves the understanding that whatever they read will be based, at least as much, on their own interpretation of an author's words as the author's intention itself.

Mostly we mirror our own perceptions as we read.

I have, on occasion, confronted participants with my own differing perceptions. When I do, I discuss the topic, not the individuals addressing the topic. Sometimes my confrontations have to do with things said personally to or about my friends here.

But I deny - and I have worked back through as much of this forum's posts as time allows, and I have not found occurrences where I directlay attacked another poster. that is just not my way. I will defend myself and my friends - as objectively as I can. I will not stay silent when someone posts opinions that I have a basic ethical and moral disagreement with.

Once I have made my point, I generally withdraw from the discussion. I am not about trying to change another's perspective, I merely wish to elucidate my own.

I get along with most of the people I meet, here and elsewhere. I do not always agree with the things other people say, and If I perceive that a boundary has been crossed, I say so. Most of the time, I and the other individual can agree to disagree and let it go.

Hopefully, lyntx can do that. I honestly do not see why she has such an apparent problem with me.

I already have let it go. I've said what I needed to say and that's that, so far as I'm concerned.

Sorry to go on so long.

Ann

Dear Ann,
Well said.

Love,
Betty

Good post Ann.
I think that to understand the writing of an author, one must understand more about the author.
I once mentioned that Alice had a Jeckel and Hyde personality. She took offense, but that didn't destroy our relationship. My good friend Carol Trostler helped me understand more about Alice and I subsequently saw her in a different light. Illness can cause one to have mood swings and I've learned much about that with my own situation.
Since my heart operation, I have and continue to go through periods of depression. Some days I simply don't want to exist any longer, and the next day something happens to change my outlook. Sometimes it is a simple word of appreciation that makes me feel that I made a difference in someone's life and/or that my contribution was helpful.
Ann has taken offence on remarks I made, but with communication, we worked it out. I think we often jump to conclusions about what someone meant by what they said, as if there was some hidden meaning. Misunderstandings are common. I often make a hasty reply and after reading what I wrote I realize that I didn't fully explain myself. Sometimes it is the fault of the reader and other times the writer. Among friends, we should be able to say what we feel. I'm sick of trying to be politically correct so as not to offend anyone. The only way not to offend someone is to say nothing. That would certainly destroy any attempt at writing. Getting feedback, both positive and negative is a learning experience. Not to take things personally is difficult at times and may depend on the mood of the reader - not the writer.


While I'm at it, I must confess that I have had occasion to be upset with Shelagh and later realized that it was a misunderstanding. Since that time, I have learned to appreciate what she has done and continues to do. Actions do speak louder than words. Shelagh's actions speak. Although she is busy with her own work, she is always willing to offer a helping hand.

Enough said.

Abe F. March wrote:

Good post Ann.
I think that to understand the writing of an author, one must understand more about the author.
I once mentioned that Alice had a Jeckel and Hyde personality. She took offense, but that didn't destroy our relationship. My good friend Carol Trostler helped me understand more about Alice and I subsequently saw her in a different light. Illness can cause one to have mood swings and I've learned much about that with my own situation.
Since my heart operation, I have and continue to go through periods of depression. Some days I simply don't want to exist any longer, and the next day something happens to change my outlook. Sometimes it is a simple word of appreciation that makes me feel that I made a difference in someone's life and/or that my contribution was helpful.
Ann has taken offence on remarks I made, but with communication, we worked it out. I think we often jump to conclusions about what someone meant by what they said, as if there was some hidden meaning. Misunderstandings are common. I often make a hasty reply and after reading what I wrote I realize that I didn't fully explain myself. Sometimes it is the fault of the reader and other times the writer. Among friends, we should be able to say what we feel. I'm sick of trying to be politically correct so as not to offend anyone. The only way not to offend someone is to say nothing. That would certainly destroy any attempt at writing. Getting feedback, both positive and negative is a learning experience. Not to take things personally is difficult at times and may depend on the mood of the reader - not the writer.


While I'm at it, I must confess that I have had occasion to be upset with Shelagh and later realized that it was a misunderstanding. Since that time, I have learned to appreciate what she has done and continues to do. Actions do speak louder than words. Shelagh's actions speak. Although she is busy with her own work, she is always willing to offer a helping hand.

Enough said.

I am glad you posted your observation on the subject of Alice. I agree with it. It is the most accurate comment as to her actions I have seen on this forum. I also agree friends should stand by friends who understand their problems. I do not agree with how her friends stand by her. Jackal and Hyde today is called bi-polar. When someone has a Jackal and Hyde problem, it does more harm to defend. It just gives strength to the problem. I can bring up thread after thread, where she has attacked me, and others, and her friends jump to her aid, and tell her she is right. If those she attacks rebuff, she turns 180 degrees, and accuses those she attacked…as the attacker. You along with her other friends support this, and the problem just goes on, and on. This is a writers forum, it’s not ward 86. Not all people, but many have left this forum because her friends have supported her problem in the wrong manner. Her friends group together, and it’s a flaming. Alice does not care if writers, and want to be writers leave the forum. This is her chat room. She has friends she can chat with daily.

What would you do if I attacked you in the same manner Alice has attacks members, and several friends come to my supported, and flamed you? Would you stay on the forum?

Keep in mind, this is a writers forum. When a member post on WIP they are asking for help. If they don’t want help, they should not post their work on WIP.

I commented on a post of Ann on WIP. I said the dialogue of her characters was wrong. Ann tried to write the dialogue as they talked in that time. The advice I gave was taken from Sol Stein. Dialogue from the past has to be invented to suit the period, it can not be written as it was. Readers will not believe it. This was taken from Steins book, “Stein on Writing, chapter 12. Stein was a Publisher, Editor, and writer. He is known as an expert in the field of writing. Alice opened her attact on me, and her friends came forward with flame throwers.

Look at the WIP today. Has anyone else other than Ann posted there? No. Has anyone made comment on her work after I did? No. Does that tell something? It should.

Look at who signs on each day. Alice, and her supporters. Look at the new members who sign on…they come, and they leave. The forum is under the control of Alice…it is not a writers forum at this stage. Alice’s friends who understand her problem, are not helping her. They are feeding the problem, and destroying the forum.

And when the flamming on this comment starts, I will follow all the others who have left.

Well said Abe.

Subject: Re: Encouragement for self-publishers Yesterday at 10:35 am

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Alice, you attack anything I post that is not in agreement with your way of thinking. Then you turn around, and act like I am the attacker. Do you not understand what you are doing? It is the main reason I want nothing to do with you. I do not post on your threads, nor comment on what you say on the threads of others. I have no way of stopping you from being a cyber bully. Even when I pay no heed to you, you keep coming at me.This thing you have going is your problem…not mine.


Strange situation--correct me if I am wrong, but this is my thread. Also I have been throughly checked out by doctors no bipolar.

1. Alice is not bi-polar.
2. The comments made on my WIP were sexually offensive and had nothing whatsoever to do with the way my characters spoke.
3. Somebody here is confused about who is the attacker and who is the attackee.
4. (brief revision) Alice and I posted at the same time.

Betty, Abe, and David, thank you for your comments.

Ann

Quote :

I commented on a post of Ann on WIP. I said the dialogue of her characters was wrong. Ann tried to write the dialogue as they talked in that time. The advice I gave was taken from Sol Stein. Dialogue from the past has to be invented to suit the period, it can not be written as it was. Readers will not believe it. This was taken from Steins book, “Stein on Writing, chapter 12. Stein was a Publisher, Editor, and writer. He is known as an expert in the field of writing. Alice opened her attact on me, and her friends came forward with flame throwers.

Yes, you gave feedback ...and then you continued and continued and continued to give it after it was acknowledged and clearly no longer wanted. Sometimes we all need to know when to shut up, yk?

Re new people leaving the forum, most of them aren't participants, they're pigeon drops. They splat an ad for their self-published book and then leave. It's a fault of this forum, IMO, that that's allowed (and encouraged). It contributes to the spammy-looking quality that 3/4 of this forum has, which, also IMO, is a reason this forum doesn't attract more writers.