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LC
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PostSubject: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:36 am

http://www.themillions.com/2010/01/confessions-of-a-book-pirate.html

The many comments on this article are the typical back- and- forth of thieves justifying their actions and (mostly) small-time authors explaining why it hurts them. Lots of verbiage. Except for one pirate. She said that she never pirated until she got fed up with paying for so many ebooks and then finding out that they were poorly written and edited trash.

This is a direct result, IMO, of the so-called "democratization" of publishing.
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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:08 pm

I've given away over eighteen thousand copies of my books. This time last year, the books were hardly selling at all. Over ten thousand copies of Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine have been downloaded. The book had not sold a single copy in Kindle format. The book is now selling slowly. I am busy writing a sequel. If others are experiencing the same as me -- and there is no reason why they shouldn't -- then they will be as delighted as I am.



Pirating may be a problem for the big publishing houses. If readers are sharing files that I've given away, I'm okay with that.

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Last edited by Shelagh on Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:09 pm

Quote :
Just because someone downloads a file, it does not mean they would have bought the product...

The pirate's mantra.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:16 pm

I do agree with the frustration of not knowing what one gets these days when taking a chance on self-published and vanity published books. There are some titles that I have enjoyed, but I am often distracted by the errors.

I felt insulted by a reviewer who stated my book had no spelling or grammatical errors and was well written. That should be a given. I had sent her two books to review; one by Publish America and one by a L & L Dreamspell, a small press.

My guess is that she had reviewed other Publish America books and assumed the two I sent were from the same publisher. Neither has grammatical or spelling errors. I will readily say that Ghost Orchid is by far the best of the two because it was beautifully edited by L & L Dreamspell after I believed it was finished... She only reviewed Ghost Orchid and gave it a great review (National Public Radio). It was just the one line that troubled me. It distracts a potential reader from the reviewer's main point - a must read.

A book I just read had a review that was five star and ended with the caveat that "though I was distracted by an error or two in spelling and grammar."

Many reviewers are giving five stars to books that I don't find great reads. However, tastes in reading vary. Even authors who have millions of sales write books that I often find lacking, especially those that are formulas that just keep adjusting the same circumstances to a new country and a new set of characters.

Some new authors have garnered a following that trusts their self-published books. That may be one way to make choices. As publishers become less influential and book stores close their doors, perhaps legitimate reviewers will be the source of guidance for a good read.

The troubling ones are friends who have written books that I find interesting and close to exceptional, but somehow not holding my attention like I'd prefer. Giving their books a review that is less than stellar endangers friendship. Yet, being fair to the reading population is also a consideration.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:22 pm

I don't think pirating is as widespread as some would imagine. The 99 cent ebooks are likely the wave of the future. It seems that recording artists have moved beyond pirating with affordable clips. Same for movies.

Thieves will always be among us. There is no excuse for thievery in any realm. Thieves salve their conscience in many ways. That's just the way it is.

Technology has developed so rapidly that it just can't be ignored.

When I lived on a sailboat at isolated islands in the Caribbean, small everything stores had satellite dishes. They recorded movies off the satellite and rented them. I don't think they paid anyone a licensing fee. They made a little money and I had an occasional first run movie. That was in 1985-1988, when pirates were those who attacked boats at sea - something real to fear.
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:21 pm

Quote :
Pirating may be a problem for the big publishing houses. If readers are sharing files that I've given away, I'm okay with that.

Well, the gist of that article and the comments were that they were sharing files the author and publisher hadn't given away.

Quote :
I don't think pirating is as widespread as some would imagine.

If not, it's probably just because more people don't know how to do it. As torrent sites get more accessible and easy to use, the pirating will increase.
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:51 pm

Like Shelagh I've had several of my stories available as a free download, so if someone is sharing them, it makes little difference to me. I've kind of got a thing about sharing anyway. I think it comes from over a half century of buying books and doing whatever I wanted to with them when I was finished reading them. I've given them away to friends, throw them away, swapped them, given them to organizations for soldiers or nursing homes, etc, with the idea being that once I paid for them they were mine to do with what I wanted. I wouldn't steal a paperback from a bookstore, nor would I download an ebook without paying, but with ebooks, just as with paperbacks, I feel that after I buy it I should be able to give it away or whatever, as long as I don't put it on line as a freedown load. I don't think ebooks should be resold, even though I do think it's alright with paperbacks. Personally I don't think there are nearly as many books being stolen as there is music, but I doubt there ever will be, but I can see how it would be a problem if it became the norm.



Addressing the issue of reviewing independent books. As a rule I just don't do it. I have reviewed a few but I don't make a practice of it. There are a lot of independent authors out there, some good, some not so good, and many books that have little or no editing and contain a lot of mistakes. However, I see no reason to write a bad review for any of them, as I know they are doing the same thing the rest of us are, just trying to sell a few of them. I wouldn't want a bad review from me to mean they lose any sales. Not that my words would necessarily do that, but still, I just don't see taking that chance. Unlike a lot of other people, I simply don't care how many books are out there or how many o them are not worth reading or contain multiple errors in formatting and/or grammar and spelling. I buy what I like, I read it, and I've seldom found one that the errors bothered me enough to make me put it down, if the plot and storyline were interesting. I'm all into letting people do what they want, and I've convinced that the days of the elite authors who think they are they only people who deserve to be published are about over. I personally believe that anyone who has the discipline to sit down and finish writing a book and then get it on the market deserves the right to so. I'd love to see the ages old establishment fall, and everyone out there get a shot. The big guys are still going to make all the money, so I don't see why they should object.
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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:35 pm

Dear E. Don,

Amen.



Love,

Betty

(Old Agnes says you are her very favorite and so I must add her name to the Amen-ing. If she could she would come up there and do it in person, the Amening, that is. She has always been a little of a loud mouse).
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:08 pm

LOL Betty and tell Old Agnes I send my love.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:40 pm

I couldn't careless if someone were to share my book, it would save me having to give it to them.

I was at a Pd conference selling my book and traded another author a book for a book. Imagine my chargin to have a book stolen from my booth and to find it was his not mine.

To be read is my goal.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:12 pm

9/18/2011


DK..

Anytime you want to read a great book, I'll
send you a copy PDF of " Dusty," you'll love it !

Cheers..Joe
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:01 pm

I have mixed feelings about the entire subject of pirating.
I agree that it is theft.
A book/product must be appealing for someone to want it. Perhaps there will be stats on pirated books that will enhance sales.
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:55 am

LC wrote:
Quote :
Pirating may be a problem for the big publishing houses. If readers are sharing files that I've given away, I'm okay with that.

Well, the gist of that article and the comments were that they were sharing files the author and publisher hadn't given away.

The gist of the article seemed to be about scanning pages of printed books and uploading to sites for readers to download. Whereas indie authors are complaining that pirating sites are obtaining electronic copies for download. Reading takes a great deal more effort than listening to music. Far more books are downloaded than are actually read.

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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:27 am

I have a whole file of downloaded free Kindles whose titles and and reviews appealed to me as well as ebooks from friends and colleagues on forums and in my social circle. I just don't have time to read them all and write.

I think that the major publishers are on a downward slide in terms of the mammoth profits of the past. Some will merge; some will maintain their elite status; but the competitive field and disappearing brick and morter book stores will take their toll. Even the "names" with ebook rights are doing their own thing.

Let's face it, book store shelves and displays were the life blood and the "made it" for authors. In case you haven't noticed, many book stores are reducing their book signings as well. One book store told me, "When someone like _____ (a political figure) can't sell more than twelve books, it's time to re-evaluate book signings as a marketing tool."

An acquaintance of mine sells his self-published books at the Flea Market - and is doing quite well. His books are a good read; he's gaining in popularity among his Flea Market regulars; and his prices are low because he uses Createspace as his publisher/printer. He does not have a web site, does not blog, does not have very many reviews - but is doing as well and better than many self-published authors I know - or even those with small presses - whose POD prices are still a little pricey for a soft cover book.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:48 am

Then we come back to the old value thing.

When religious folks`appear at your door with a brochure , do you eagerly read it when they depart? The trash bin is where it more likely lands.

So if you want something, you save and buy it.

I think you are more likely to read it if you wanted it enought to buy it for a reasonable price.
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:31 am

Quote :
The gist of the article seemed to be about
scanning pages of printed books and uploading to sites for readers to
download. Whereas indie authors are complaining that pirating sites are
obtaining electronic copies for download

What's the difference?
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:02 am

E. Don Harpe wrote:
I think it comes from over a half century of buying books and doing whatever I wanted to with them when I was finished reading them. I've given them away to friends, throw them away, swapped them, given them to organizations for soldiers or nursing homes, etc, with the idea being that once I paid for them they were mine to do with what I wanted.
The physical copies are yours to do with what you want. Sharing a copy of an e-book, however, involves making a new electronic copy to share. You keep your copy, and your friend gets one, too. Which, without permission and even if you never open your copy again, is copyright infringement just as if you'd made and given away a physical copy of a printed book.

This is the problem facing publishers and artists today. Digital technology enables bootlegging making it convenient. Most people, given the opportunity to rip off something they want without getting caught, will do it. That's a simple fact of human nature and it is why good people are quick to justify and retionalize the practice. They don't like to be told that they are stealing.
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:08 am

LC wrote:
Quote :
The gist of the article seemed to be about
scanning pages of printed books and uploading to sites for readers to
download. Whereas indie authors are complaining that pirating sites are
obtaining electronic copies for download

What's the difference?

There is no difference from legal and moral views. Just that one's easier to do than the other. First time out, that is.
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:20 am

Quote :
This is the problem facing publishers and
artists today. Digital technology enables bootlegging making it
convenient. Most people, given the opportunity to rip off something they
want without getting caught, will do it. That's a simple fact of human
nature and it is why good people are quick to justify and retionalize
the practice. They don't like to be told that they are stealing.

Yes, like the thief "Lic" who kept repeating that it isn't theft, it's just "demand and supply."

"And again, nothing was taken, only copied. Calling it theft is
incorrect. I am not talking morals, simply definitions, copyright
infringement is not the same thing as theft. You lose credibility when
you claim it is. RIAA tried that, no one believed them.

ďI can assure you, that ebook downloaded wasnít at all hassle-free for the author to write.Ē

Sorry, but that doesnít factor into the equation. Demand and Supply.
If supply is infinite, and with any computer file it is, price
approaches $0.

Consider however bottled water. Water is essentially free from any
tap, but people will gladly pay for it in a bottle. What is really being
sold is the bottle, and in some cases the service of filtering the
water. Itís convenient or safer, so people pay. Iíve got an Internet tap
that gives out free ebooks, what bottle are you offering? The printed
book was a good bottle, but is being replaced.

Economics. Not right or wrong, not legality or morality. Those are separate issues."


I have to wonder if he's just a troll, or really believes this and steals from other service providers, too. Furthermore, none of the commenters who claimed that "just because they stole it doesn't mean they'd have bought it anyhow" seem to be aware of the concept of "unjust enhancement." That's something that can be sued for, too.

And, of course, they'd be screaming loudly if they learned they weren't going to be paid for their own work. But I'm sure "Lic" would justify it as saying that there's more of a "demand" than "supply" for his own talents. Rolling Eyes
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:40 am

Tell him to try not paying his water bill.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:45 am

When those movies open, they point out very clearly how illegal it is to copy them. I guess a similar campaign is necessary for other intellectual property.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:52 am

Water is not free unless you are catching rain water or getting it from a river, and that requires purification. If it is well water, someone had to drill the well and that cost money. Water coming from the tap has been purified and that cost money.

In my view, taking anything created by another without permission, is theft.
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:54 am

Quote :
Tell him to try not paying his water bill.

LOL, no kidding. Water's free from any tap? So what's this bill I get every month?

I also liked the comments that compared copyright laws to apartheid -you know, some laws are "bad" so you shouldn't follow them. Boy, talk about self-delusion. Or straight-up trolling. I'm not sure which.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Pirating article   Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:30 am

Tips on handling ebook pirating:

http://badredheadmedia.com/2014/07/09/5-tips-handling-dreaded-ebook-pirates-guest-macpetreshock/
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