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 DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?

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joefrank
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PostSubject: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:17 pm

2/12/2011


Do you think the United States would have a revolution ? What
is your opinion ?


Mine...Yes , if the politicians don't clean up their act and stop
spending money like drunken fools, create jobs for the
14 million people or so who are out of work, matter of
fact I read it's more like 17% out of work not 9 1/2 %.
The ones' who lost their un-employment and those who
drop out don't count. The budgets need to be drastically
slashed by 50% , get rid of the Space program, get rid of
the foreign aide that props up foreign governments, these
two programs need to be eliminated totally. Get rid of Fannie
May and Freddie Mac a total waste, Slash all government
workers salaries including congressman, senators and other
government workers by 25% , military budget by 35%, bring
troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. Eliminate all perks
for congressmen and senators let them pay their own way !
Eliminate all pork barrel spending, it has to end.........Any
other ideas ? This goes for both parties..So far I've read
7 or 8 politicians decided not to run in 2012, I guess they
see the writing on the wall or they've watched the mass
revolution in Egypt , they know the American public is fed
up and they won't take it anymore....




Cheers...Joe
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:25 pm

I think a civil/race war is more likely. A Russian professor has written at length about this. His timing is wrong (he predicted it to happen in 2010), but it could happen yet.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:58 pm

I believe in our form of government and the ability to change the direction of the country through the ballot box. We may go through some terrible times and demonstrations are possible, but our leadership will be decided by votes, not revolution.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:06 pm

2/12/2011

Diane..

Don't underestimate the American public, it
happened once, it could happen again, remember
it's " We The People."


Cheers...Joe
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:13 pm

I'm not a cheerleader for revolt. I agree with Diane. The ballot box is the place to start, however there needs to be change there also. A democratic vote, i.e., the the popular vote should decide, not the electoral college. The world looked-on at our national election during the presidential election wilth Bush/Gore and shook their heads. The will of the people did not get their man into office, but power brokers won the day. The Florida fiasco with the vote count was just another thorn. We got a President that took us to war, put us in debt and sent our men and women to their death. We have borrowed heavily from China to stay afloat. They own much of our country. What happens when/if we default on payment? Can they foreclose? What would that mean?

Petition our representatives for a change in voting procedures. Petition them for the right for a third political party. We need more choice than what is thrust upon us by the two-party system.

Peaceful petition is far better than revolution turned violent. And with all the guns in the hands of the citizenry, it could turn bloody. We've alreay experienced a bloody civil war. I think conditions are ripe for revolt, but let that happen at the ballot box.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:58 am

I hope not. We are supposed to be an orderly society which goes by the will of the majority.

A democracy should not need to revolt.

Besides a lot of our problems are of our own doing. Buyng too expensive homes by deceiving the lenders, overinvesting in the stock market, allowing labor unions to control wages, living on borrowed money etc.
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:23 am

Abe F. March wrote:
A democratic vote, i.e., the the popular vote should decide, not the electoral college.
That could have repercussions. Campaigns would focus on the denser population areas exclusively because they'd reach more voters with each speech, slogan, commercial, etc. More return for the campaign dollar spent. And most campaign dollars come from corporate donations.

Consequently, the government would be representative of urban needs, because those voters would decide the elections, and corporate needs, because that's where they get their funding.

We see some of that already. Let's not make it worse.

Campaign financing is what needs reform. That was John McCain's primary agenda until he needed some campaign financing. Then it wasn't his primary agenda any more.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:29 am

John McCain is too old to be the President.

I think 70 should be the uppermost age limit for one to run for president.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:57 am

Al,
if the popular vote is not a democratic vote, then what is?
There seems to be some confusion. Perhaps clarification is needed.
It can start with our interpretation of democracy. How votes are counted, etc.

We claim voter fraud in some countries. How do they view what happened during the presidential election of Bush -vs- Gore? Was that our example of democracy in action? The candidate who won, lost.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:06 am

alice wrote:
John McCain is too old to be the President.

I think 70 should be the uppermost age limit for one to run for president.

Alice, I agree.

When the private work force considers one too old to be considered for a job at age 50, and retirement at age 65, why would we elect a person 70 or more as President? A person slows down both physically and mentally at that age. Yet the greatest responsibility is placed on their shoulders as President. We are nuts to even consider such a person as candidate for the Presidency. We need someone who is in good physical and mental condition.
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dmondeo
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:52 am

I will never say that the Americans are revolting!
You can't make me say it.

But we Brits we are a revolting bunch of so and so's.
Viva the revolution.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:27 pm

David,

Britts are never revolting--they are too charming.



Abe,
You are right!
Lower the age to 60--that way they would be out by 68 max.
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:34 pm

Abe F. March wrote:
Al,
if the popular vote is not a democratic vote, then what is?
There seems to be some confusion. Perhaps clarification is needed.
It can start with our interpretation of democracy. How votes are counted, etc.
In a pure democracy, there are no elected lawmakers. The issues are decided by popular vote of the citizenry. That doesn't work in a place as large and populous as the US. Without a mechanism to represent the people and propose laws, the system would get clogged with anybody's frivolous issue.

We are, instead, what has been called at different times, a "constitutional democracy," a "Jeffersonian democracy," and a "republic."

Abe F. March wrote:
We claim voter fraud in some countries. How do they view what happened during the presidential election of Bush -vs- Gore? Was that our example of democracy in action? The candidate who won, lost.
I think it's time we got past that. It was a classic example of one side successfully using the system to advance their agenda. Bush won with a majority vote in the Supreme Court. Period. If Gore had taken a commanding lead at the polls, it never would have happened. The Bush presidency with those shady origins was, however, fully validated by the electorate four years later. We are in the mess we're in by the will of the people, which is, after all, the core principle of democracy.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:30 pm

Al,
I respect your opinion, however I don't completely agree with your answer. As for getting past the fiasco with Bush/Gore, that is easy for us to say, however people from various countries still make reference to it. We can't make it go away. It happend. I think we need to make sure it doesn't happen again, and that is my point. What measures are required to make sure our voting process (democratic process) is perceived as honest? Perception, although unreal, is still a valid concern, especially if we wish to be recognized as a leader of democracy.
A clear definition of democracy would help. How democracy is applied to voting is a big concern. How will that play out in Egypt? Is there a model to follow?
If the model is perceived to be tainted, it is not a good model.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:39 am

We get what we elect. If we simply talk and don't participate in the political process at all levels from local to national, then we put our beliefs and desires in our pockets.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Al Stevens wrote:
. We are in the mess we're in by the will of the people, which is, after all, the core principle of democracy.

I regret to say, I validated him--figured he made the mess he could fix it. I was WRONG! OH well, can't be perfect all the time. lol!
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:29 pm

2/14/2011

I'm thinking of moving to Germany where
Abe lives, after all my great grandparents
came from there and I'm sure it's cheaper.

Cheers..Joe
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:31 pm

Joe,

It wasn't cheap ten yesrs ago. I think you'd need more than your great grandparents used to live there to get you in.

Stay here--see what happens! Maybe it will get better. Housing is getting cheaper for sure.

One more obstacle--German is hard to speak!
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION ?   Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:47 am

Joe,
Visit first. If it feels right, then make your decision.
Learning another language is a challenge, but also a good experience and necessary to fit into another culture. One need not be perfect in the language to communicate.
Taking baby steps and falling down is a normal progression in learning to walk. There is always someone ready to help you up and give encouragement.
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