Do you support SB 1070?

dkchristi wrote:

A major ad campaign and arrangment with Guatamala, Mexico and a few other S. American countries needs to make it clear that employers will not hire those who enter the U.S. illegally. Their own countries need to stop them from exiting their borders. The governments need to work together in terms of aid to those countries.

That probably won't happen. Those countries consider the illegal emmigration of their citizens to the US to be a win-win situation for them. First, those who come here to work often send money home, which eases the economic burden their families represent. Second, those who come here for evil purposes are regarded with a good riddance mentality. Let them be our problem rather than theirs.

Al Stevens wrote:

alj wrote:

That same article I quoted from in DK's comment made the point that the human is the only animal that is aware that it is going to die at some point.

I've heard that, too. But I wonder, as I do when someone says no two snowflakes are alike, how do we know?

In 1938, my great-uncle George got mad at my grandfather for talking about the crazy paper hanger in Europe, and what he was doing to the whole world. George said he was tired of all the war talk. "Besides, Hinton," he said to my grandfather. "How do we know there's a Germany?" While my grandfather sputtered in shock, his brother asked another question, "You ever been there?" "Well, no, but..." "Then don't try to tell me nothin' about it!"

And that ended the discussion.

Ann

No wonder nothing is being done--it is too difficult.

It truly is a very difficult and complex issue; that is why it makes good fuel for emotional "cures" that only harm innocent people while purportedly "correcting" a multi-faceted problem.

I don't know how much money in aid goes out of this country to others in addition to and in conjunction with United Nations efforts. That whole business needs a good "look see" also. Maybe we are too thin across the world and need to concentrate on helping our nearest neighbors gain some economic progress.

As far as sending money home; that has been the immigrant practice since first coming here. I remember great grampa still sent money to Russia. Families are famililies. At least they aren't drinking it up; they are living frugal to send their money home. They still spend plenty of it here just to eat and sleep. However, as they integrate into communities and have families here, their income stays here. Again, that has always been the immigrant pattern - nothing new. It's just the bias toward the Mexican immigrants that makes it appear new.

Since these immigrants were brought in by crew leaders paid by the U.S. employers to collect them from their villages, they have come in sufficient numbers to be noticeable, especially when their skin is dark and they hang out with each other (imagine that!) speaking their language. They didn't assimilate as easily as some of the lighter skinned immigrants. Those who are light skinned, by the way, do assimilate quicker.

I agree with DK. The problem is not with the worker, but those who hire them.

If the employer can verify that there are no legal Americans that will take the available jobs, then they should be free to hire who they please. To do that and protect themselves, they need government approval.

It seems to me that if there were no jobs available, the problem with illegal migrant workers wouldn't exist.

What is logical and simple to you and me, Abe, is not politically expedient. Politically, you can make a name for yourself on the backs of people invited here to do the work no one else wanted in a booming economy.

Now, we've allowed people to live here and start families and become community member - and if they are stopped for a broken taillight, they are deported and separated from their wives and children. First, we send them home on airplanes; then we pay to take care of their U.S. citizen children who now have no father's income to support them.

However, if you are a politician or a person who needs to jump and shout, you can make a lot of noise about these people who still come across the borders because they haven't received the message that there's no work.

Instead of deporting the person, the employer needs to be fined for every day that person has worked there. Then there should be a process leading to appropriate work papers so the family is not broken through deportation and the person who was invited here to work may continue working legally.

Quote :

Instead of deporting the person, the employer needs to be fined for
every day that person has worked there. Then there should be a process
leading to appropriate work papers so the family is not broken through
deportation and the person who was invited here to work may continue
working legally.

Makes sense to me. And for families who have been here for a long time and have assimilated, citizenship should be offered.

Ann

I have a friend, owner of an earth-moving company, who had to fire a long-term (many years), hard-working, tax paying employee because it turned out that the employee had no green card and my friend would have been penalized.

So, apparently, penalties for employers of illegal aliens exist. We don't need new laws.

But, in many cases, enforcement of existing laws creates hardships for all concerned (except the politicians). My friend lost a valued employee. The employee lost his job. His family is on welfare. Lose, lose, lose.

This is, of course, anecdotal evidence and doesn't prove anything. But I bet this story is more typical than those biased ones that depict all undocumented aliens as thieves, drug smugglers, welfare frauds, and drains on our economy.

Deport the ones who are convicted of hard-core crimes (and not just busted taillights). Grant amnesty and citizenship to those who are assimilated and contributing to our society and economy. What's so hard to understand about that?

I think Al's post covers it.

Al, you don't get news coverage and a political platform from common sense. My experience supports your annecdote except that I know of few employers that are fined. Of course, the "big boys" get around the laws.

I agree with Al that new laws are not needed, but enforcement of existing laws. That is often a political issue and not limited to events in the USA. Enforcement of UN Resolutions is an example of politics deciding what laws will be enforced and those ignored.

How to get enforcement of existing laws concerning illegal aliens and employers is a worthwhile pursuit. Finding a good reporter or an untainted politician to present a challenge is not easy. Public opinion often dictates their actions. They too are concerned about job security.

How things work:

Suppose Arizona were to have instead enacted a law imposing stiffer penalties on employers of undocumented aliens. The law woul penalize those with the most money, businesses who exploit cheap labor and affluent individuals who employ menial labor. Outcome? Lawmakers would lose campaign contributions and, consequently, their jobs.

But, by bearing down on the undocumented aliens only, the law resonates with those voters among the lower classes (the majority) who have racist biases and/or who consider outsiders to be a threat. Outcome? Lawmakers don't lose contributions, they gain votes, and they keep their jobs.

Do the math.

Exactly right Al. The rule of politics dominate, not the rule of law.

I guess I feel the issue strongly because Mexican and Guatamalan people are not numbers or a dark horde to me. They are people who shop where I do, ride their bikes along side of me, and HAD stores just a few blocks from me. I say, HAD. I just noticed today that several of the shops rented by Mexican families have closed and are empty buildings with crossed boards on the windows.

I share my community pool with Mexican families as well as the rest of the community resources. On Saturday nights, I ride my bike one block over to watch the dancing and listen to the music where a couple families built a bandstand on their empty lot next door for family get-togethers. I'm sure they would invite me to join if I rode just a little closer.

Their ready smiles, polite manners and ability to find joy in the midst of poverty and chaos impress me. I am envious sometimes. The eagerness with which they embrace learning is amazing. I taught English for Speakers of other Languages four nights a week. I had to Oust the room because the men came straight from the fields, 7:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m., to learn English. I have never been treated with such respect as a teacher.

Hate for differences is so common that good people don't realize they fall victim too. I'm all for legislation for the good of the people, all the people, administered with humane practices and justice. I find the political greed in this country heinous; anything for a vote.

I have spent many of the last ten years working in environments where I was the only WASP (haven't heard this one much lately). It's difficult to hate people with whom you share your joys and sorrows, your daily grind and your hopes and dreams. Only a heart of stone - a person to be pitied.

DK,



There is a Mexican population here in Wisconsin. It is amazing to watch the young people accept these children from another country, treat them with dignity and respect.

My granddaughter thinks they have a definite advantage in Spanish classes, but finds it a challenge worth pursuing.

Carol

Children aren't born prejudiced. They must be taught.

Al Stevens wrote:

Children aren't born prejudiced. They must be taught.

TRUE!

This thread is cracking me up.

Saw this in the news today, and it also cracked me up:

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/police-illegal-immigrant-carlos-martinelly-montano-kills-sister-denise-mosier-in-drunken-driving-crash/19580015

I couldn't care less. The Catholic church is HUGE on bringing illegals in, and then setting them up on all kinds of social programs. This nun was in an order that did lots of that. The drunk couldn't have hit a better person. Seriously.

Come on LC, Have a heart!

Why on earth can't you see these people have hopes, wants and aspirations the same as you do?

I see nothing even remotely funny about families being ripped apart.
This "Problem" is exaggerated by the media. They thrive on dissension

WA state has loads of illegal aliens--God bless them all. I will gladly pay double
my taxes to help them.

The world is simply over-populated..

As far as the nun goes, I don't like that she was run over , she did not deserve that. She was not assisting drunk driviers

Why, because I'm amused at the irony (karma?) of a nun who assists illegals being run down by one? Come on, Alice, it's funny.

Not on my funny list.

8/5/2010


LC...

I think you've gone too far this time, many people
here don't find it funny or hysterical about a Nun
who was killed by an illegal drunk driver !

I think you owe everyone an apology , you may
think your humor is cute ! Many people don't !
Your behavior on this board is disgusting and an
insult to all of us who are Catholic, you should
think twice and use your so called brain before
you make remarks like this !!!!!!


Joe.....

Why is a nun more special than anyone else? Actually, it's better than someone that has a family depending on them. Even better if it's someone who devotes lots of time and energy to getting illegals settled and on programs here (which the Catholic church does lots of, it's one reason I don't attend anymore).

8/5/2010

LC..

I guess you don't get what I said, you are
pompas ! As I stated you owe people here
an apology, if you don't know how to act
on a board then you shouldn't be on one !
" APOLOGIZE !!!!!"


Joe