What's Gone Wrong With the Religious Folks?

Some nut in Arizona is spewing forth hate. He wants Obama dead. He is praying that he will die.

This man is a Pastor? I have heard everything.

9/7/2009


Alice....

He's a " WACK JOB" looking for
attention......


Cheers...Joe,....

Joe,


Well said!

I pray that Obama doesn't die, that he succeeds.

That's what everyone should be praying, and maybe we'd get somewhere.

Carol

Agreed! Whoever is the president of these United States has a monumental task. When the country is in the state in which President Obama took office, every pulpit should be calling for the universe to give him the support he needs to bring us back on course. Any course is better than the direction we were heading. Give him a chance. Provide opposition information that is factual so his administration has lots of pros and cons to consider, but leave out the emotional blasts of half truths and scare scenarios.

Of course, that won't happen. After all, we are a people who live by our own self interest. What affects me is more important than what affects my fellow human beings. So long as my job is intact, my insurance covers my needs, my retirement is safe, my home is my castle and my children get an education and are sufficiently connected to get a good job, that's what matters. Whatever it takes to maintain my status quo, lies or half-truths, it's worth it.

If my neighbor starves, it's because he or she made bad choices. If my neighbor is sick and exhausting all financial resources to survive, it's because he didn't live his life right. If I live a moral life and provide for my family and all is well, I deserve only the best. Those other people get the worst because they deserve it. Why should I suffer even the slightest change in my life to help someone else? Christian values? All that do undo others stuff? Oh, that sounds pretty in words; but no one expects to live by it.

I don't have a single religious dogma; but I have often felt that if Christ actually returned to this earth, He would weep. He would cry out to His God and ask what happened to His creation? He would take the gold from the churches and sell all that he could to distribute food to the poor. He would probably be a socialist, for there were no elites in His world; all were equal in God's eyes. I often thought the Quakers were the closest to His words; meeting in modest surroundings, living modestly, and always providing for those less prosperous.

And He'd love everyone, and never wish for someone to die.

Carol

Carol and DK,

I could not agree with you more. I don't think God goes to church. Why would He? The church leaders killed His Son.

A Recovering Former Church Leader

It's part of the same question that prompted Joe's question on socialism, and it has the same answer.

The Greeks used the terms thesis and antithesis. In times of crisis, the old way is seen to be in conflict with the new way, and both sides insist they have the only viable solution.

Both ignore the possibility of a third way, a synthesis of the old and the new.

Barak Obama is the leading representative, in politics anyway, of a new world view. A worldview that synthesizes the old opposites of thesis and antithesis.

The new worldview is not only coming, it has come, and those who refuse to accept it are like Alice's pastor in Arizona. It isn't Obama they hate, it's his worldview.

The other day, I posted some links to some theories of Goerge Lakoff, that presented American politics from conservative (Strict Father) to liberal (Nurturing Parent) points of view.

As I was rereading Lakoff's perspectives, I noticed something new for me (not new for him or his readers - it was always there). It involved a new grasp of why the alternate viewpoint was not a feminine view opposed to a masculine one. As far back as Riane Eisler's The Chalice and the Blade, it has not been about differences between patriarchal and matriarchal view, but about patriarchy and androgyny, for the feminine worldview has never been that women are superior to men, only that the sexes are equal. So this rising worldview that is so hateful that its proponents must die isn't another either/or worldview, but a both/and one.

(You say I am repeating/Something I have said before. I shall say it again./Shall I say it again? T. S. Eliot, "East Coker," The Four Quartets)

Lakoff used the term "Nurturing Parent" rather than "Nurturing Mother," because a major part of the concept is that both parents can and should be part of the nurturing process.

So this "new" worldview is a return to an ancient one in some ways, and involves a synthesis rather than an antithesis. And it is the current response to our present dilemma.

2012 is not an ending, but a beginning. This new worldview will not continue to split us into opposite polarities, it will lead us to a compassionate center, a synthesis of old world and new.

We are on the verge of a new world order. Right now, we are still witnessing the death throes of a way that no longer works; that is all.

Ann

Ann,

You are so right. I have to wonder why they can't see their way no longer works though.


Continuing a failed, no longer viable, ideaology is ridiculous.

Alice, it means denying everything they have built their lives upon.

Ann

If the bible contains future predictions then
God knows all Alice.
From eternity he can behold, the past the present and the future.
He cannot be suprised.
These are dark times Alice but also times full of hope.
Religeous leaders going potty do not suprise me.
These people weald so much power and power can corrupt.
It is no wonder that this position would attract many who relish and covert power.
Deception is everywhere even in the church.

David,

You hit the nail squarely on the head.

Praying for Obama to die? Sounds like he's a typical member of the Christian fundamentalist right. Religion is suppose to be about love and compassion, yet these fundamentalist preachers spew nothing but hate and hell fire. Jesus actually said not to judge other people and yet fundamentalist right wing preachers talk constantly about judgement, judgement, judgement. Religion is suppose to unite people, yet it seems it does a far better job of creating divisions and conflicts than it does of creating unity. Fundamentalist preachers are always talking about how we need to avoid the devil, yet they themselves sound as if they are from the devil. How can one be of faith and yet pray for someone's death?

Gordon,

They are nuts. They are taking God's name in vain.

They are demonists, not Christians!

These so called preachers are EVIL.

I guess we need to pray for them--they are in dire need of help.

DK & Ann, good posts.

Many use the word "God" for self-serving purposes. People are gullible, and if their leader or leader-pretender uses the word God, then he/she is deemed okay.
Which God is referenced? The God of the old Testament that instilled fear, permitted the smiting of one's enemies, or the Christian God of the new Testament where love, appeasment, turning the other cheek was preached?

They all claim that there is but one God. Is God two-faced?
Putting words into God's mouth is common.

Abe,

Good point.

Alice wrote:

They are nuts. They are taking God's name in vain.

They are demonists, not Christians!

This isn't anything new. All religions have their intolerances and always have. That said, a world without any religion would probably be a scarier place.

What I don't get is the uproar over Obama's speech to the school kids. I'm not even going to try to figure that one out, though.

LC,

We are in agreement. A miracle has occurred.

9/8/2009

P. Gordon..

" RIGHT ON !"


Cheers...Joe...

A second miracle: LC and I also agree on the Obama message to school kids. What is there to object to other than that he said it? Such unbridled hatred is hard to comprehend.

I listened to the speech, although many school students here in SA were not allowed the opportunity. There was nothing political about it, but some of the opponents are saying that they influenced the speech, that after their objections, the president changed it.

Oh, yeah.

Ann

And would there be anything wrong with making changes when someone else read what he had written?

As writers we experience that frequently and edit and make changes. Maybe things were perceived incorrectly. Maybe they thought he could use better words.

Perhaps Michele could have given the speech without controversy.

I think it is time we realize we are on a journey here, and it is all right to change one's mind on a journey, even make detours now and then.

We cannot go back to be a spending society. If people don't want socialism, then they need to save for retirement, and health care, and not expect to be taken care of at any time in their lives.

I like the speech. Parents, teachers, and grandparents need all the help they can get raising kids these days.

Carol

Joe, Dick, Ann and Carol,

Great to hear sense.