Social Networks and the spread of false information

Betty Fasig wrote:

Balderdash!

and to borrow from Lane--" Rubbish!"

This is to LC's comment.

LC,

Go to compassion Pre-school

Alice wrote:

I am quite tired of the rich having more and better everything.
I say since they have better food , houses etc.,let them suffer a bit.
Maybe they will get the point.

I think you underestimate how much the rich carry the rest of us on their backs. I've read from various sources that 40% of this country doesn't pay income taxes. Many get back what they never paid in via the Earned Income Credit.

I don't begrudge people who took the risks needed to earn their money the lifestyle it buys.

LC,

I am offended beyond words with your view of the world.
Unforunately you are the majority now.

I truly believe the only answer is for you to lose your Healthcare and get terribly sick. Your world view would change.

I underestimate nothing -- I pay huge taxes. I would gladly pay more for uninsured people.

I have compassion. It doesn't extend to paying everything for everyone.

Medical care is so much more expensive now precisely because it's so much more advanced and inclusive. I don't see why I need to pay for care for people who could have bought insurance but decided not to. The WSJ has profiled such people in articles, people who turned down employer insurance, taking the risk that their young, healthy selves and families wouldn't need it. They were wrong, and the rest of us get stuck with their decision.

IMO, everyone needs to have some skin in the game, whether it's for taxes, insurance premiums, or anything else. But it doesn't work that way. Means-testing offers waivers to provide the poor with things they wouldn't otherwise have. What I'm saying is that I don't want my own purchases, including healthcare, to be on the level of means-tested government care. YMMV.

I work daily with "illegal aliens." Believe me, they don't go for "free" health care until nearly dead for fear of INS. Even before that, the health care workers took vaccines to the fields because when you work from 7 AM to 7 PM six days a week and are paid by the bucket or the flat and lose wages for any minute missed, a trip to the physician or clinic is a luxury. Their vaccination protects you and me, too. It's self-serving to provide health care to those who pick and pack and slaughter and package our food.

I provide scholarships to farmworker families. Part of the process is to record any benefits they receive. These are legal persons with the right to work in the U.S. Their children are U.S. citizens. They have to be starving before they will even apply for food stamps much less any other benefit available to them. As soon as they have one day of menial work, they are off the dole. The second generation has an education and good jobs that pay taxes to the economy and supports their aging parents when the time comes. They all file income tax.

I worked in several other communities with welfare recipients. They were not immigrants or illegal aliens; they were people who were generational recipients of welfare for whom menial work was beneath them. When the laws changed and recipients were "forced" to work a miniumum of 30 hours per week, they picketed the welfare offices as inhumane, dragging their children with them for whom they received substantial TANF funding. The men slipped in during the night so their incomes were not counted and so they couldn't be found to get child support.

I much prefer working with people who have hopes and dreams for the future of their families and this country. They are the first to sign up to serve in the military. They work the jobs no one else takes. They don't claim the social services to which they are entitled until absolutely desperate and they don't continue on social services the minute they get a break.

Every wave of immigrants strengthened these United States of America. They put down their roots and the next generation was educated and contributing to the economy. They opened new businesses that grew and employed more and more workers who contributed to the economic viability of this country. It is the small businesses that build the economy, not the big ones that have stagnant workforces and executives with glutonous salaries and bonuses. It is the same still; we need the small businesses. I am proud to be an American and I am proud of the hopes and dreams and ideals of my United States. I am distressed by the self-interest that motivates so many these days when so many others have sacrificed to bring prosperity not to the few but to the many.

I am embarassed by the hate mongering that goes on in the name of patriotism. Every generation it seems has to find a "goat" for their troubles instead of accepting that we are all goats, led by a political system that rewards the voice with the most money and in which only half the citizens exercise their right to vote, the free voice that should be heard. I am still proud that we can change a government peacefully and that we have the right to vote whether we exercize it or not; I am proud of our many privileges as citizens.

But fear is a powerful weapon. It appeals to our baser instincts. Change is a word the invokes fear. Put the two together and the most idiotic, unsubstantiated lies can be put forward as truth and stir up the populace to a frenzy, especially those who are eaily swayed.

Personally, I was recently facing a job change. It means changing from a school insurance program to a private one. I had to turn down the career opportunity because I have pre-existing conditions that the new insurance will not insure for six months, if at all; and COBRA ( 18 months only)will cost me $6680 a year of the new job's potential salary. The private company's insurance plan requires my contribution and the benefits are miserable compared to my present plan. So, at my age, it isn't the salary that matters unless it's astronomical to make up for the potential high cost of medical care; it's the benefits.

Today, I'm in hog heaven. I'm employed with a great plan fully paid by the school district that even includes an FSA to pay for co-payments. It's just that hog heaven's work isn't so heavenly at the moment, and my benefits have me stuck here. Why should I care about anyone else getting medical care when mine is fine?

I care because this is my country and I share the space. The people in my space deserve the chance for healthy lives in a country with the potential for economic well-being that our ideals state. Children, in particular, need a good start to be healthy adults who will not be a drain on the economy. It is embarassing to be a developed country with less universal health care than a little South American country I visited where universal health care was mandated for every citizen.

Ah well, it's no use. Every thing I've said can be refuted by someone who does not even need to have my experience, my data, or any facts at all. I'm nobody. My voice is only one little peep in a sea of self-interest and fear of change.

Alice, if that happened, I'd just declare bankruptcy and stick society with my bills, just like so many people do now. It's government-sanctioned now, don't you know.

DK, your whole post was right out of a La Raza talking points propaganda sheet. I could pick it apart line by line, but don't have the time or patience.

Doing jobs that no one else will do? LOL. No, just depressing the wages. I would like to see companies who hire illegals fined so heavily they'd go out of business. That would go a long way to solving a lot of it.

Alice wrote:

I underestimate nothing --I am one of the so-called rich. I pay huge taxes. I woudl gladly pay more for uninsured people.

Nothing's stopping you. There's a donation box at the end of the tax return form, do you put extra in it?

I can remember before anyone had insurance for anything....cars, health, house, boat, malpractice...

Insurance companies have ruined the world. Sucking up money, never paying much back and making people feel that they were protected for stuff that no one could predict and if they had the need to file a claim, who is in charge then? I hate insurance companies.

They are banking on the fact that 99 percent of the stuff they cover is never going to happen. If that 1 percent happens, your rates go up. The banks require it, the DMV requires it, every one requires it.... the doctors have gotten so rich by it that they can send you a notice that if you are late for your appointment they can charge you another 25.00 and yet you can sit in their waiting room for an hour and a half and nothing is taken off your bill.

I do not like it. The insurance companies empower these people. Why can't they empower us who pay the premiums.

Love,
Betty

E.DON,

WE NEED YOU!

LC wrote:

Alice, if that happened, I'd just declare bankruptcy and stick society with my bills, just like so many people do now. It's government-sanctioned now, don't you know.

And lose your house.

Who is La Raza? I speak from my thirty years experience with the workforce system of the United States in California, Florida, Idaho and the U.S. military abroad as well as foreign school systems. I speak from work in the private sector, the public sector and a combination. I speak from small towns in farming communities to major urban cities. I speak from positions with statewide responsibility, regional responsibility and local responsibility. I administered WIA, WAGES,TANF, Welfare Transition, Vocational Rehabilitation, Adult Education, Vocational Education, taught every grade and specifically assisted unemployed adults throughout the nation find new hope and new careers. If the alphabet soup is confusing, I agree. I worked in communities of every race and background. I don't need talking points;I have to provide hard data to justify the actions I take in my employment. I collect that data every day from real people with real lives. I don't take it from some political talk sheet. I have real budgets that I have managed with an integrity that bears emulating. I am not a "bleeding heart liberal" though I admire people who put their own lives on the line for their beliefs. I am a practical person who sees, hears, thinks, and acts from factual information. I am fiscally conservative and can post an entirely other post on the fiscal waste from school systems to governments; but I believe in human dignity and will be a proponent of that belief. I also believe in the rights of others to express a different opinion when it is supported by fact or clearly expressed as a personal opinion.

Alice wrote:

And lose your house.

Maybe I'd pull an OJ and move to Florida, where they don't take your house. Or take out lots of home equity loans, have NO money in it whatsoever, and then stiff the bank (while complaining about how banks rip people off). That's pretty popular now, isn't it?

I think DK knows what she is talking about.

Why is it right that prisoners have medical care and those who work don't?

Why are those who shout drowning out those who care?

Why are those who have lots of knowledge and experience not being heard?

Carol

LC,

My brain job was well over 100,000.00
Add to that Pancreatic surgery gall bladder surgery, Triple by-pass surgery.
Days spent in hospital and rehab.

Never has my life been in danger I am healthy.

You will say it is my fault. I had a mother who did not believe in abortions.

Carol Troestler wrote:

I think DK knows what she is talking about.

Why is it right that prisoners have medical care and those who work don't?

Carol, do you know anything about prison health care? Google it, esp. prisons in California. Then come back here and tell us about it.

As for shouting, the only shouting I see is the people calling those with legitimate concerns "hate speakers" (I think DK used that term a few times herself).

Alice wrote:

LC,

My brain job was well over 100,000.00
Add to that Pancreatic surgeery gall bladder surgery, Triple by-pass surgery.
Days spent in hospital and rehab.

Alice, what's your point? Are you saying that your exact care and experience should be available to everyone regardless of ability to pay? I agree, in a perfect world, it would be. I don't live in that world, though.

LC wrote:

Alice wrote:

And lose your house.

Maybe I'd pull an OJ and move to Florida, where they don't take your house. Or take out lots of home equity loans, have NO money in it whatsoever, and then stiff the bank (while complaining about how banks rip people off). That's pretty popular now, isn't it?

Why can't we just be honest and fair?
Popular is neither.

LC wrote:

Alice wrote:

LC,

My brain job was well over 100,000.00
Add to that Pancreatic surgeery gall bladder surgery, Triple by-pass surgery.
Days spent in hospital and rehab.

Alice, what's your point? Are you saying that your exact care and experience should be available to everyone regardless of ability to pay? I agree, in a perfect world, it would be. I don't live in that world, though.

I think the poorest of the poor should have equal care to mine.

LC,

I hope you find a better world.

Making the world a better place for others might improve your own situation.

Alice wrote:

I think the poorest of the poor should have equal care to mine.

What are you doing to make this happen? What are your suggestions to get us to this better world?

It's always comforting to share similar opinions with colleagues; sometimes when that happens, the different opinioned person may feel alone in their wilderness.

I recognize that health care is a personal hot button for many, and some have chosen to take the debate to a fevered pitch instead of separating and analyzing the issues with facts. The problem is that facts are hard to see. There is so much money that pours into obscuring the facts and twisting the truth, regardless of which side of the issue, that it's difficult for a thinking person to really put together an opinion that isn't laced with an emotional response.

That is what the lobbyists and politicians count on, our emotional response. I haven't read any of the healthcare bill and I doubt that any ordinary citizen has read any more than their bias directs them to read. As a voting population, we should vote to throw out the lawyers who write these things in reams of words impossible to decipher. They are written by the lobbyist lawyers who "help" the committees. We need to insist that they are written in lay language that we can sit down and read and intelligently discuss. Alas! That would take away the power of the purse.

LC, I want to thank you for expressing your point of view. If everyone thought exactly the same on every issue, life would be dull indeed and intellectual stimulation would come to a halt. I appreciate the chance on this forum to occasionally write about issues that are meaningful. They are challenging sometimes to express and stay on target, and different opinions help the mind sharpen up a little. As far as writing, sharpening up the mind also helps focus writing skill to be expressive and factual, at least to make that attempt. Perfection is a goal, not a reality.

LC,

I am not out screaming against Health Care I am for it --even if I pay more taxes.

Click on Carol's link it shows that countries with national health care plans are doing better than we are.

I lived in England for awhile. They outlive us by a year. Canada by three years.

People are so afraid we will be like Canada--looks appealing to me.

Dear LC
Do you eat?

Thankan illegal for that food. Do you have an idea what a tomato would cost you if you had legal Americans plant it, tend it, pick it and pack it. You live in a dream world.

I have to agree with Diane, it is right on. I do not expect LC to ever understand a thing. She must live on another planet. Never have had a hard day in her life or ever needed the help of anyone.

I think it is a facade.


I am so sorry for you. LC. None of us are the end all and be all of creation. What a shallow life to think that we are the only one of importance. All else be damned. No look out but our own. What hope can you see for this planet?

Love,
Betty