I'm Guilty

(I hate long posts, so please excuse this exception)
The book I’m reading now took the author nine years to write. Lots of frustrations, setbacks, etc., but the end result is a great book.
The intro to his book gives credit to the many people who provided input/assistance. It reminded me of the processes CEO’s use to makes decisions and/or how an attorney works to build a case. Numerous people accomplish the groundwork, gathering information.
Some writers have the attitude that unless it is entirely their work, their creation, then it is not their story. That is not the attitude of many great writers who often go to great length to give credit to those providing input and/or doing the research for their story.
Often we are in such a hurry to “get published” that we write a good book, whereas it could have been a great book. Being patient, continuing to fine-tune the work, has benefits.
Naturally there are many forms of writing. Dick has shared information on how a reporter writes, meeting deadlines, etc. Years of experience are needed to become proficient to do this. That is not the same as writing a novel. Each genre has it’s own requirements. Historical novels require research. Knowing how much data is needed to support the story line and not bore the reader is not something one can determine alone. Being too close to the work, wanting to include information that the author thinks is interesting, may not appeal to the reader. If one is writing a history book, all the information is relevant. A novel needs a story line that keeps the pages moving. In this case, less is better than more.

I’m guilty of rushing to complete my work. I want to get it done and go on to the next thing. I doubt if I am the only one who looks back and feels that given more time, more fine tuning, the book I wrote could have been better – perhaps much better. I’m still learning. Learning from mistakes is good, but costly. There's nothing wrong in making a mistake. Repeating the same mistakes is unacceptable. I realize the need for a second, third or even more opinions before reaching a decision, however the final decision is mine. The work is mine regardless of how much input I receive.
No one is going to point fingers at those who provided input but at the author who authorized the final version.
As with all points of view, you may see it differently.

I think I have to agree with you Abe, awesome post.

Vickie

I just wonder, though, how much research went into Twilight.

Not much, apparently. This critique of Twilight is interesting because, if it is accurate, it suggests that the quality of the book is secondary to writing a book that is exactly what a large group of readers want to read.

http://intotwilight.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/

It would seem that writing for oneself is a sure way to write a non-bestseller.

I agree completely, Abe. A professional writer is eager to give credit, not only because he appreciates the help but because he may want more of it in the future.

You share a trait with the late Ed Hoch, the most productive of all mystery short story writers. He had a plot machine in his head so he was always eager to finish one story so he could get on to the next.

A writer may fail to do the required research and he will fool many people. He won't fool those who know better, nor will he have their respect.

Rewriting, reworking, rearranging or just deleting entire sections are a vital part of writing. As I have often mentioned, however, the late, and award winning, Bill (William Campbell) Gault warned: "You have to rewrite, but be careful because you may be cutting out the good stuff."

Whether you are writing a news story on deadline or a second "War and Peace," writing is hard work. That's what makes it fun. Anyone can bang keys and end up with a story. Not everyone can do the job well. Knowing that makes the effort put into doing it well worthwhile.

Great post and wonderful comments here.

I guess it's all what one's goal is. Of course you have to research and get the book right, but nine years is a ridiculous and unrealistic amount of time to spend doing it, IMO. I have no interest in making any book my life's work. It doesn't earn me money sitting in my computer. At some point it has to get done and out. A flawed book that is widely read is more useful than a perfect book that nobody sees.

Dick Stodghill wrote:

I agree completely, Abe. A professional writer is eager to give credit, not only because he appreciates the help but because he may want more of it in the future.

You share a trait with the late Ed Hoch, the most productive of all mystery short story writers. He had a plot machine in his head so he was always eager to finish one story so he could get on to the next.

A writer may fail to do the required research and he will fool many people. He won't fool those who know better, nor will he have their respect.

Rewriting, reworking, rearranging or just deleting entire sections are a vital part of writing. As I have often mentioned, however, the late, and award winning, Bill (William Campbell) Gault warned: "You have to rewrite, but be careful because you may be cutting out the good stuff."

Whether you are writing a news story on deadline or a second "War and Peace," writing is hard work. That's what makes it fun. Anyone can bang keys and end up with a story. Not everyone can do the job well. Knowing that makes the effort put into doing it well worthwhile.

Great quote Dick and Abe. I also think a writer needs to be open to criticism, and then you have to not cut out the good stuff, and research takes time.

However, there is a timely aspect to one's work. Is this work what people will want to read today?

Carol

A flawed book or a flawed story can distort history just as a flawed movie does. If a writer isn't willing to do the work to get it right, he should write around it.

I agree Dick.

I try to get it right, but sometimes that means plowing through a whole lot of opinions and perspectives.

Battles are a good example. One battle had some people who thought troops were shooting from the roof of a hospital and that made it all right for the enemy to enter it. Others, who were on the other side. thought the people on the roof of the hospital were only checking on the battle and didn't shoot at anyone. What I think is the enemy thought the men on the roof of the hospital were shooting at them. But how do I know. I wasn't there.

Carol

Dick Stodghill wrote:

A flawed book or a flawed story can distort history just as a flawed movie does. If a writer isn't willing to do the work to get it right, he should write around it.

I didn't mean to imply that a flawed book was ok. Just saying that a book with some flaws that is published and read is more useful to everyone (publisher, author, readers) than a perfect book that doesn't. This is assuming, of course, that what's accurate outweighs what's right, lol. The OP was about a book that took the author nine years to write. I assume the book was a hobby, sort of like the quilt that never gets finished, and the author didn't worry about relevancy a decade later.

Edited to add -I work with some people who always talk about writing a book on the subjects they teach. One has actually started, but is so persnickety about everything, researching beyond what's needed, changing, fretting over possible mistakes, that his book will never see the light of day. Who benefits from that?

The reading public, perhaps. But I see your point.

Abe, your post makes me feel better about the time it is taking for me to put Ailcy's Legacy together. So much research is still going on. I will have to decide what to include and what not, but I still want it to be as historically accurate as I can make it. I never thought, when I started it, that it could be so complex. A Myth took me about eight months to write, although much of the research was done before I decided to write the book. Ailcy is taking years, and is nowhere near an end.

Ann

Ann, if you want any help with Missouri during the Civil War, I could help with that. I've got a lot of info wandering around in my head.

Carol

I have a friend, David Rosenberg, author of many books. He was so kind to read my Wooffer in the early days of it's publication. He is a person who is so aware of the importance of being accurate in every detail of writing for the story to have credibility and cohesiveness. I love David.

He and I had a discussion about the story of Camille. Camille is a chameleon. She wants to be all the colors that she can imagine. A worthy goal. It is the idea in the story that she aspires to so many colors that she turns black. All the colors mixed together make black. Amazed, she is. I had this idea from my grands coloring eggs. They do love to mix it up and put one here and one there so often that the result was black eggs.

David, whom had never mixed colors on eggs, thought only of mixing colors of light. If one were to mix all the colors of light they would get white light.

He taught me a lesson in perception.

I thought that to honor David Rosenberg, I would post the story of Camille.





The green lizard that Wooffer rescued from Amber Jack was named Camille. Camille was an American Chameleon, and what she loved to do best was change colors. If she could, she would be a different color every day of the week! The day Amber Jack had caught her, she had found a leaf that was the perfect shade of green and was THINKING GREEN while she was standing on it. That is how chameleons can change their color. First they have to stand on something that is the color they want to be and then THINK of the color very hard. Eventually, they will turn that color. Well, almost every chameleon can change their color from the brown they usually are, to green. Almost every thing IS green. Leaves are green, grass is green, moss is green. weeds are green, and a lot of other stuff, too.

Camille had been thinking green so hard that she had not noticed the cat creeping up on her. She was very lucky that Wooffer had been watching just at that moment! Anyway, she had escaped.

One day, Camille was talking to Wooffer and complaining that she wanted more than just green. She wanted to be red, yellow, and even blue! But she needed some things that were red, yellow or blue to stand on so she could change her color. All she could see everywhere was green.

Wooffer took Camille to the flower garden by the side of the house. It was a long trip for Camille (who is a very small lizard), but Wooffer told her it was just what she was looking for. When they finally got to the flower garden, Camille could not believe her lizard eyes. RED flowers, YELLOW flowers!!!!!! All just the right size for her to stand on. Camille clapped her hands and leaped with glee. She leaped right onto a big red zinnia and began to THINK RED. In no time she had changed her color to a very bright red. She was so happy!

Every day for a week, when Wooffer met Camille, she was a different color. One day she was bright red and the next day she was a beautiful lemon yellow. She would sometimes be orange or pink. All the other lizards who were still just green, begged Camille to tell them her secret. She would not. No, No, No. She kept her secret all to herself. She had a good reason.

One day, Camille noticed a small patch of cloth that was hanging from one of the tall thorny bushes that grew near the zinnia garden. Her heart leaped for joy!!! If she knew anything about color, THAT was BLUE! None of the zinnias were blue. She ran to find Wooffer.

Wooffer leaped up and got the patch of cloth in his teeth and gave it to Camille. It was not only blue, but red, yellow and green!!! It had one square of each color. Camille took it home and the next day, Camille was blue. It caused quite a stir among the green lizards, you can bet!!!

Every year at the end of summer, the chameleons have a festival. It is called “The Changing Of The Colors,” and all the chameleons go and have a contest of changing colors. The winner gets a beautiful rainbow trophy to take home. Camille meant to be the winner and surprise them all. She practiced all summer on thinking red or thinking blue or thinking yellow. She was sure she did not need a lot of practice on thinking green. Everyone could turn green.

It was finally the end of August and time for the Festival of The Changing of The Colors. All the chameleons had brought a green leaf or a bit of moss or something else to stand on to demonstrate their color changing skills. Camille brought her patch of cloth. They all had to start out brown and so all the lizards were in a roped off area of brown earth and were instructed to THINK BROWN. At last everyone was a nice shade of brown and the contest began. Each lizard took what they were to stand on into the middle of the arena where they stood upon it and thought GREEN. There were some beautiful colors of green, too!! From bright Apple Green to Olive. It was a sight to see!!!

When it was Camille’s turn, she took her patch of cloth and spread it out neatly on the ground. A great gasp came from the rest of the lizards. It was RED, YELLOW, BLUE and GREEN!!!! What lizard could do that many colors at once?!!! It was never heard of before! They all held their breath and watched very closely.

Camille walked gracefully onto the patch of cloth. One foot was on yellow, one foot was on red, one foot was on blue and one foot was on green. Camille took a deep breath and closed her eyes. She THOUGHT YELLOW with all her might. One foot and leg and half of her head turned a beautiful shade of yellow. Then she started to THINK RED. Her other front leg and the other side of her head turned a very bright shade of red. She THOUGHT BLUE as hard as she could and one of her hind legs and half her tail turned a royal blue. All she had to do now was the easy part,THINK GREEN. She thought green. All of a sudden she heard “Oh My, Oh My, Oh My Word!!!” “Did you see that?” “Yes, I saw it, but I don’t believe it!!”

Camille opened her eyes and looked at her self. She was BLACK!!!! SHE HAD TURNED BLACK!!!!! ALL OVER!!!!

Poor Camille! It was not what she had expected at all. She did not know that if you mix all the colors together you get black. BLACK!!! She was sure that, after all her training, she had lost, and made a fool of herself in the bargain.

But then, there arose from the other lizards, such a loud cheer and clapping that she stood there dumbfounded. One of the judges came up to Camille and put his arm around her. He said, “ My dear, we have not seen such a display since Carmen of the Many Colors in 1954. You are the Winner!!!!!”

Camille finally got the message and smiled from lizard ear to lizard ear. She was making her acceptance speech and all she could think of to say was, “I want to thank my friend, Wooffer. Without his help, I could not have done it.”


Love,
Betty

Love your stories, Betty. =)

Interesting comments. What we write will impact the reader. If we make one mistake with facts, it can nullify everything else in the reader's mind. If one is unsure, it's better to write around it as Dick mentioned.
What we say, will disappear. We we write, stays.

Another of your great stories, Betty. The intro you posted about Mr. Rosenberg was interesting, too.

As I've said many times before, the stories from Woofer are priceless. Never stop writing, Betty.

Carol Troestler wrote:

Ann, if you want any help with Missouri during
the Civil War, I could help with that. I've got a lot of info wandering
around in my head.

Carol

I know just what you mean, Carol. Actually, I have more than enough on
the Civil War in Missouri, My problem has more to do with sorting all
my Foster, Anglin, and Richardson ancestors who were there, and which side each was on. It's like Abe said. When
you're writing a fictionalized story, you have to make choices about what to focus on and what to leave out.

Ann

Betty, I've had the pleasure of meeting David Rosenberg. He is even nicer in person as he is on the boards. He is a great speaker as well. I met him during the WOW Wizards of Words conference last year in Scottsdale AZ.

Betty, your stories are such a pleasure to read.

The comments here are all very good.

Researching the facts are important, because many readers know history and really do compare what they read to what they know and will look it up to see if the facts are right if they question it. I was never as aware this as much as when I first became published and began reading posts from diligent readers, and talking to those who ingest more books than I could in a weeks time. I personally read to relax and don't scrutinize things as much unless it is just so apparent that the facts are shred to pieces. If an author wants a following, they need to be very aware of what he/she writes. If it is fiction they are writing, it is important to have the things that happen in their story sound real and plausible.

Vickie

Abe F. March wrote:

Interesting comments. What we write will impact the reader. If we make one mistake with facts, it can nullify everything else in the reader's mind. If one is unsure, it's better to write around it as Dick mentioned. What we say, will disappear. We we write, stays.

I've made mistakes in my books and have been called on them by readers (strangers who emailed or even called me at work after googling me), but it didn't nullify the whole book in their minds. At least that's what they told me. As for working around something I'm unsure of, for me, that's not an option. If it's relevant to the book, it needs to be covered. When I made mistakes, it was because I found incorrect material during research, or explained it so poorly it appeared I was saying something different, or just inadvertently made errors.

A perfect book is a worthy goal, but it may also be unrealistic, and I learned to stop beating myself up over errors. They eventually get fixed in future editions. I'm not trying to be sanguine about them, just realistic. I need to put out books in defined time frames.

LC, what you say makes a lot of sense, and I pretty much agree with it. And then, I click on your profile and learn ... absolutely nothing.

You have obviously written quite a bit, and yet, unless I have missed some posts, which is very possible, we don't know what any of those things are.

You talk about being published, but we have no idea who you publisher(s) are. Not that it makes any difference to most of us here who publishes what, but we do like to know.

The best I can tell, and again I could be wrong, but it seems as if we don't know your age, your gender, your background, any of the basic things about you that will give us some idea of how your writing has formed over the years, and how you come by such a great amount of information on writing.

We have posted many times on this subject, and I understand the reasons some have for wanting to remain anonymous, however, some of us, well, at least one of us, likes to know a bit more about what a person has done so we can see if you are speaking from experience, or just copying and pasting information you've picked up somewhere. Good advice is good advice, but it means a bit more when we know that a person is giving that advice out of personal experience.

I don't say this to offend you, just to let you know that I'd be interested in knowing what you've written, so as to better understand the experience that gives you your very good viewpoint on things.

Once again, if this info has been posted here and I've just missed it, then I have no one to fault other than myself.

With that said, I agree that readers are not always completely turned off by an error in a book, or a fact that is a bit less that factual. At least, not in ficiton, which is what I primarily write. I try to be as close as possible to the facts, do all the research that I can, and then I am content to let the reader decide if they wish to keep reading the current book and if they will be willing to give my next book a try as well.

Speaking of Mr. Rosenburg, he read my historical novel and told me the song I used in the 1880s, "Wait 'til the Sunshines Nellie" was a song that was not written until 1903. I have hymns in the book, and every single one I looked up in several sources to make sure they were written before they were sung. However, I assumed, something no one is ever supposed to do, that "Wait 'til the Sunshine Nellie" was an old folk song, and there was no reason to look it up.

My husband says movies need to be more accurate. He gets upset when someone in a movie is at the controls in an airplane doing what a pilot does to take off, but the plane is landing. He says they could have asked him.

I think my Cuba book is accurate after a few years of study. But then there is the problem of quotes and permissions, which I'm trying to deal with. When beginning to write, I used the quotes as my knowledge was not as vast and I was not confident in my expertise. However, now that I have a broader knowledge base I think I can cut out some of the quotes I put in to make the work more legitimate.

Carol