George Bush's legacy

Abe F. March wrote:

Bush’s Legacy:

His questionable election to office.
Lowest IQ of any president
Took a surplus and turned it into the worst deficit this country ever had.
Turned a nation dedicated to defense into an aggressor nation.
Sacrificed our service men and women needlessly.
Told the most lies.
Destroyed our prestige and credibility as a nation.
Our most unpresidential President

In summary: He took a strong country and turned it into a debtor nation. He took a country of prestige to one now lacking in credibility. He placed the status of America as a super power in jeopardy.

It seems that whenever Bush speeks all he ever says is Spend! Spend! Spend! During his presidency, he's racked up a massive federal deficit (mostly due to the Iraq war). His war will take the United States at least 75 years to pay for and possibly more. That's right, the American taxpayers will be paying for this until at least the 2080's. Another thing I've noticed about Bush is that he seems to want to stick with his strategy even when it is obvious to everyone else that it does not work. He seems to always insist on "stay the course" but if we stay the course, we'll only get more of the same, more and more people will turn against the United States and deeper and deeper and deeper into debt we'll plunge.

I just wanted to share that I am enjoying this thread immensely, and I think that the airing of opinions is really important. As a Canadian, I try to keep my eyes and ears on things happening around the world. With the American election taking up a lot of media attention, and given a lot of our TV actually is fed from the U.S. it is hard to miss, and I try to balance rhetoric with what is actually taking place. I find this discussion an interesting way to see what is really on people's minds as opposed to what makes it on to CNN.
Certainly there are oddities everywhere (Canada is no exception - we have two official languages, but not in every province or territory, and two distinctly different legal systems, in addition to at least one province at any time that would like to be independent). I think one aspect that freaks me out the most is that people can be led to believe that what satirists and comedians say as if it is actually true (hence the Colbert Report and John Daily Shows among others) or that the "Oprah" bump can get someone elected.
This life is a grand adventure, and I think we do have to take a very different approach to deficits, debt and priorities if it is going to be worth leaving to future generations.
There you go, my 25 cents worth.

I certainly agree with you Pam about people being misled. To make matters worse, those who mislead don't always do so intentionally. They actually believe in the things they say and no amount of reasoning with them will make them see things any differently. I am a great believer in allowing people to make up their own minds on practically everything.

Therefore, it is the duty of everyone in the media to present just facts and not opinions and allow viewers/listeners/readers to form their own opinions. Factual programs offering opinions leads to people believing in fictional stories that are meant to entertain not inform. With the lines between the two blurring so much, it is difficult for some people to know what to believe.

I think it is also worth noting that celebrities hold a lot of sway with some people. These celebs are often out in left field, and folks who blindly follow are certain to be misled and duped. I often wonder what gives them the idea that they are so well informed.

US politics is definitely led by the media. It is also difficult to tell if a politician is telling the truth or not. Mud slinging is everywhere, and it is sickening. Many of the people I know are fed up to the eyeballs with the way things are going, and even the party lines are blurring.

Whoever said that politics is a dirty business was not talking through their hat!

zadaconnaway wrote:

I think it is also worth noting that celebrities hold a lot of sway with some people. These celebs are often out in left field, and folks who blindly follow are certain to be misled and duped. I often wonder what gives them the idea that they are so well informed.

US politics is definitely led by the media. It is also difficult to tell if a politician is telling the truth or not. Mud slinging is everywhere, and it is sickening. Many of the people I know are fed up to the eyeballs with the way things are going, and even the party lines are blurring.

Whoever said that politics is a dirty business was not talking through their hat!

Celeberties do hold too much sway over people. It seems to me some people think celeberties are gods and goddesses. Like you said, people follow the "stars" blindly. This is very unfortuante, as it shows that people are not thinking for themselves and for democracy to be effective, it is very important for people to think for themselves. Personally, celeberties hold no sway with me; I could care less what they do or say. I think for myself and I'm proud of it!

Would we go to butchers for financial advice? Would we go to plumbers for advice on which university to send our children? Would we go to an electrician for medical advice?

So why do we allow newspaper editors and the drop outs and drug users of Hollywood to mould our opinions on politics, world affairs and military strategy?

Sadly people do turn to the wrong people for advice. Of course that's part of the problem too; people go asking what they should think rather than working it out for themselves.
Of course they believe that reality television is true too, and that winning the lottery will fix everything wrong about their lives.
My reality bite this morning: shovelling snow in 80km winds. Ah, life. Ain't it grand?

Sure is! I had a great day out in the hills and even managed to pan some half decent gold.

Sounds like a great way to spend the afternoon - panning for gold! The city that I grew up in (Edmonton) became a popular spot as the "Gateway to the North" during the Klondike Gold Rush in the late 1800s (people went overland through Edmonon, or landed in Alaska and climbed through the Chilkoot Pass). There are some very cool old places that have been preserved as a part of that history, and still people who pan for gold although most of it is long gone and replaced by the oil industry. Good food for novels, as well as fun for adventurers and hiking.

Will a new cold war be added to his legacy?

The practice of newspapers giving editorial advice and picking election slates is insane, an abuse of position as strong as hollywood cuties speaking to congress on issues.
(Got to admit Paris Hilton has a better energy plan than McCain or Obama, though)

But they refuse to give up this un=earned influence. In mexico many papers have 6-10 pages of editorial spew on politics.

The San Diego paper has cut their book section, just cut their TV guide, is cutting sections and features right and left... but still runs two pages of editorial blather nobody pays any attention to.

Abe,

We can only hope, it's JUST a cold war!

Bush's Legacy, Let's see:
-unpopular and highly wasteful Iraq war
-economic crisis
-record energy prices
-unsound environmental policy
-no-bid multi-billion dollar contracts for his corporate 'friends'
-a possible cold war (which in the worst case could become World War 3, which could kill more people than all previous wars in recorded history combined).

Don,
The signing of the missile shield with Poland is setting the stage for big trouble. I think the EU, the countries on the front lines, should have had their views listened to.

My husband and I joined an organization that has its own intelligence and daily sends out information on happenings in the world. Not that they have all the answers correct, but it gives us a viewpoint apart from the regular media.

Thomas Jefferson truly believed that the free press of newspapers, the primary media source in his day, was extremely important to democracy. Indeed, many countries throughout history have only provided information from government, only reporting what they want the people to know. Even if our media slants information, at least they have freedom to report what they choose, and then we have the responsibility of winnowing and filtering and comparing to other information available.

Carol

Agreed Carol, and thank heavens we have other news outlets to use, BBC and NPR just to name two.

Quote :

The signing of the missile shield with Poland is setting the stage for big trouble

Exactly. It's hard to see anything about putting missiles right next to Russia as anything other than needless provocation

Today our Secretary of State signed the agreement with Poland to place the missile defense shield there. Russia then announced that they would place a missile defense shield in Belarus pointed at the west. At the same time, they announced that they would be stationing some planes in Cuba.
The cold war (I hope it stays cold) has begun. Only 4 more months left and Bush isn't finished yet.

The way Bush is acting, it seems like he's trying to provoke Russia.

I hate to think it but:

-Piss off Russia, people react in anger and there is threat of war.

-If war is in the offing, we need a strongm warrior president.

-Gee, the Republican guy is that type.

Lin,
As you know, Sabre rattling and tough talk does not lead to peace but to war or a cold war. Dialogue and reason can disarm the opponent.
McCain appears to be delighted with the situation at this stage of campagning. He talks as though he is going to put those former commies in their place. Mr. Tough will have no qualms, like Bush, in sacrificing lives to prove a point.
Will Americans elect a candidate dedicated to peace or will it be more of the same?

Probably one of the reasons Bush is provoking Russia is he wants to keep his party in office and keep the United States on the same course its been on for the past eight years. Bush seems to want more of the same. Besides, a third world war would meen a lot of multi-billion dollar no-bid contracts for his corporate 'friends.' It seems so much is about money these days. It is sad that our leaders are willing to sacrifice people in the name of profit.

An interesting article:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB254/index

I hope this gets you to the right place about Iraq on the National Security Archive.

Carol

It confirms much, Carol.